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#16 FOCA

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Posted 23 May 2013 - 05:30 AM

In all honesty if Ford stripped out all the creature comforts they'd be massively reducing their market! 

 

Also realistically it would sell for around £15k at the least and for that amount of money you'd want air con, bluetooth etc. If you want a car that just goes around a track fast buy a radical or ariel atom :P

Gadgets and junk are not expensive to make - but quality design and engineering does -  thats why a 911 turbo s costs 140 grand - not because its decked out like the starship enterprise - but because of the advanced engineering, mostly hidden out of view  - im sure you could buy 7 Sanyangong cars with more electric junk on it than the Porsche  

 

You could always get an S - class merc or a big lexus - loaded with every concievable gadget but not exactly a "sports" car, or even better - a streched limo - you could have a big screen tv and a well stocked bar in that - of course, you would not want to drive it yourself - you would sit in the back!

 

Gadjets and gismos are just toys that you play with when you 1st get the car but then forget about, that the car manufactures have brainwashed the car buying public into thinking they need when you don't -  

 

I know someone who bought a new car because her old one did not have i-pod connectivity!   

 

Me - im stripping all that junk out of my car (its just extra weight) -latest thing is  im trying to track down some polo blue-motion door mirrors & swop my electric mirrors for these - no powerfold, no puddle lights and no electric (completely manual) but just ultra lightweight and aerodynamic - perfect (f1 ones would not look right and are a bit expensive)

 

 

 

I know not everyone agrees, but i personally prefer to have less stuff (gadgets/ junk) in my car (when you specify an option - you have to ask yourself, do you REALLY need it?)- it makes it lighter/ better/ quicker/ more efficient - and mine is a daily driver/ definately not a track day car!



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#17 Mark M.K

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Posted 23 May 2013 - 01:16 PM

It's all down to what the buyer wants I guess. For me, a every day car needs some gadgets to make your life that little bit better. If you had the cash spare to have a weekend only car, or a track day car - then strip it out to be as fun as possible.

 

We can only do 70 mph on the UK roads (legally ;) ) so is there much need to strip out a road going car you would use every day? I don't think so.



#18 FOCA

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Posted 24 May 2013 - 05:49 AM

It's all down to what the buyer wants I guess. For me, a every day car needs some gadgets to make your life that little bit better. If you had the cash spare to have a weekend only car, or a track day car - then strip it out to be as fun as possible.

 

We can only do 70 mph on the UK roads (legally ;) ) so is there much need to strip out a road going car you would use every day? I don't think so.

My car is stripped out, ive had it 8 years and never been cought speeding in it,  ive owned "fully loaded" luxury cars in tha past and don't miss the toys (you would be surprised what you could live without for the sake of progress)

 

Less is more - the weight-saving makes a big difference to the car at all speeds,  even pulling away gently from rest, it feels "effortless" bieng 2-up in the car would have been the same as it being empty, the maximum payload is increased (to 740kgs, about the same as a small van) wear-and-tear on the tyres/ brakes/ suspension and transmission is reduced, the brakes work significantly better, the great big "icing on the cake" is the improve MPG  

 

Its certainly not my idea, with manufacturers like Mazda with weight- saving bieng a major part of the design of their ordinary cars, and Audi and Jaguar going to great lengths/ expense to save wieght in their luxury cars (including alloy chassis etc) apart from the more obvious Lotus/ Porsche/ Lambo/ Mclaren/ Ferrari with light weight "regular" cars and even lighter, stripped out "special" versions    

 

Ford has switched from a mechanical to elecrtic power steering to reduce the load on the engine (to improve performance and economy) and it looks like they are probably being selective about which extras can be specified on the ST for similar reasons   



#19 Nay ZS

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Posted 24 May 2013 - 03:40 PM

My car is stripped out, ive had it 8 years and never been cought speeding in it,  ive owned "fully loaded" luxury cars in tha past and don't miss the toys (you would be surprised what you could live without for the sake of progress)

 

Less is more - the weight-saving makes a big difference to the car at all speeds,  even pulling away gently from rest, it feels "effortless" bieng 2-up in the car would have been the same as it being empty, the maximum payload is increased (to 740kgs, about the same as a small van) wear-and-tear on the tyres/ brakes/ suspension and transmission is reduced, the brakes work significantly better, the great big "icing on the cake" is the improve MPG  

 

Its certainly not my idea, with manufacturers like Mazda with weight- saving bieng a major part of the design of their ordinary cars, and Audi and Jaguar going to great lengths/ expense to save wieght in their luxury cars (including alloy chassis etc) apart from the more obvious Lotus/ Porsche/ Lambo/ Mclaren/ Ferrari with light weight "regular" cars and even lighter, stripped out "special" versions    

 

Ford has switched from a mechanical to elecrtic power steering to reduce the load on the engine (to improve performance and economy) and it looks like they are probably being selective about which extras can be specified on the ST for similar reasons   

 

 

Sorry but I disagree with regards to the options. To me it is likely that Ford kept the options list short on the ST due to the price sensitivity of the UK hot hatch market and the fact that the low price is one of it's USP's against it's competitors. Considering nearly all the reviews mention the price as a plus point, perhaps this wouldnt have been the case if you were able to add £2500 worth of toys to it.

 

In terms of weight most of the wiring is already in places for things like auto wipers / folding mirrors and surely the hardware to make them work (sensor box, mirrors with motors etc) can't way more than 5 kilos?

 

The options that have been left out on the UK spec model are standard on Euro spec ones but it costs more from what I've read in other places. This to me backs up that this is a price/positioning thing and not a performance thing.

 

 

Just out of interest how much weight have you stripped out of your car? Me being me I can barely tell the difference when I've got an extra passenger on board waying lets say 70 kilos.



#20 FOCA

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Posted 24 May 2013 - 05:17 PM

Sorry but I disagree with regards to the options. To me it is likely that Ford kept the options list short on the ST due to the price sensitivity of the UK hot hatch market and the fact that the low price is one of it's USP's against it's competitors. Considering nearly all the reviews mention the price as a plus point, perhaps this wouldnt have been the case if you were able to add £2500 worth of toys to it.

 

In terms of weight most of the wiring is already in places for things like auto wipers / folding mirrors and surely the hardware to make them work (sensor box, mirrors with motors etc) can't way more than 5 kilos?

 

The options that have been left out on the UK spec model are standard on Euro spec ones but it costs more from what I've read in other places. This to me backs up that this is a price/positioning thing and not a performance thing.

 

 

Just out of interest how much weight have you stripped out of your car? Me being me I can barely tell the difference when I've got an extra passenger on board waying lets say 70 kilos.

I Accept that cost is a major consideration when it comes to standard spec, but i would have thought optional (cost) extras could have been added if the buyer was prepared to pay for it

 

The bits and pieces are surprisingly heavy, and they add up, and can also have a knock on effect, for example, if there are a lot of extra electrical items added, a larger heavier, higher amparage alternator may be required, that also has a heavier load/  on the engine and a larger, heavier battery  

 

My car is approx 150kilos lighter, the weight saving is from removing a small amount of large heavy items, (eg spare tyre/ jack 20kgs/ back seats 22kgs/ aircon 11kgs ) lots of smaller items some only a kilo or less, and fitting lighter components (exhaust /battery )  and the lightest practical wheels (ST ones are 22kgs mine are 17.4  reduces unsprung weight/ rotating mass/ narrower tyres- reduces drag) as well as reducing the parasitic loads (mechaincal waterpump/ AC pump/ pulley) if i wanted i could potentially disconnect the power steering for dyno runs/ drag racing as its no longer shared with the waterpump with the electric waterpump conversion (i considered electric power steering but its too much hassle )

 

it still has all the door cards (they are light & in between the wheels) dash trim carpets, center consol etc(looks virtually stock forwards of the centre pillar)  its stripped rear of the back doors and the rear windows blacked out (all the weight is concentrated between the wheels, like a mid-engined car, but with a forward bias, for the FWD traction)   

 

The difference it makes is phenominal - the few big things and all the little things add up - the roof bars only weigh 4kgs,(for the pair) this, surprisingly  made an incredible difference to the turn- in, the other surprise was the air-con radiator, it was only 4kgs and also made a noticable difference to the steering (perhaps it was because i had taken so much out of the back, or because its forward of the front axle)

 

I know mine is a different car but something like the extra wieght of heavier powerfold/ electrically adjustable/ heated wing mirrors may affect the handling of a small car like the Fiesta more than you might expect, some of those electric adjustable seats have 18 motors in them ! (apparently)

 

Fiesta ST - Ok so a completely stripped out (racer style) is a bit extreme for most people, but just having the essentials without un-nessesary "luxury" kit suits the sporting character of the car - but i think what is and what isn't nessesary is quite different for different people

 

I would be interested to know, what you (and others) consider "nessesary" or "desirable" in a daily driver     



#21 GuestyBFC

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Posted 24 May 2013 - 05:41 PM

The whole point of a hot hatch is that it should be fast and practical, or people would just buy sports coupes.



#22 b1g_dav3

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Posted 24 May 2013 - 07:08 PM

I'm someone who would like bare doors without proper trims, no back seats with a strut brace on the back and so on, but I wouldn't want to pay the same price, and it just wouldn't be economical for Ford to roll something out at the kind of price that would be worth it to the consumer. 

 

Then again, I'd quite like what they did with the Mini; whipping out the back seats for the aforementioned brace :P



#23 Mark M.K

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Posted 24 May 2013 - 10:09 PM

The whole point of a hot hatch is that it should be fast and practical, or people would just buy sports coupes.

 

Totally agree with this comment. Different types of car for what different types of people want, otherwise we would all be driving the same car.



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