Boost Hose Visibly Stretching

[Alexm]

Hi all, is it normal on a 1.8tdci to see the boost hose swell right up when it's boosting. It was a new genuine ford one literally less than 1K miles ago as the old one split.

And also it keeps pushing itself off by about a quarter inch or so, no matter how tight I do the jubilee clip up :s any suggestions on that ?

[FOCA]

Hi all, is it normal on a 1.8tdci to see the boost hose swell right up when it's boosting. It was a new genuine ford one literally less than 1K miles ago as the old one split.

And also it keeps pushing itself off by about a quarter inch or so, no matter how tight I do the jubilee clip up :s any suggestions on that ?

It sounds like there may be a restriction in the pipe, perhaps the inlet manifold is choked up with carbon/ gunge from the EGR valve/ system

Altenatively the boost pressure may be a bit high (ie - a fault in the boost control system/s)

posting a pic or video would be good

[Alexm]

Thanks for taking the time to reply :)

Ok ill see if I can get the mrs to rev it when it's a more reasonable hour for the neighbours, there is no loss in performance, the oil is changed very regularly, and it's got 52k on her if that makes any difference.

[Alexm]

Actually while I think of it, I did post up about it making a fluttering when I change gear when it's cold, that sounds like turbo, only slight, but worth a mention if its related.

[Alexm]

I really wish I thought of these things before making a million posts but;

Ive did the dash trick, no faults on there. And it had its software updated about a month ago and all was well diagnostics wise.

I've just been out and got 96% alcohol and cleaned the grease off where the hose slips onto, and made sure its super tight, didnt manage to get a pic, but it just hardens right up and expands (not quite balloon as I thought I saw yesterday).

Would it be worthwhile getting a silicone hose to replace this little piece? As I plan on keeping the car and already gone through one hose, I can't seem to find one premade anywhere, could someone give me the measurements I'd need to buy one please

[Alexm]

Here it is, it came off this much again ! Never goes any further tho

[FOCA]

Is it a corrigated hose? (like a "bellows") some hoses are designed to expand a little or allow for the movement of the engine realative to the chassis

The EGR system recirculates the exhaust gasses, the carbon deposits in the exhaust gasses that are fed into the inlet, can build up on the insides of the inlet manifold, eventually choking/ restricting the airflow, this can make the turbo have to work harder to produce the same amount of boost,

The EGR / manifold can get contaminated (coked up) very quickly, (10-20k) it depends how the car is driven, if it is driven gently, around the EGR operational "area"/ revs, it (EGR valve/ inlet manifold) will coke up quicker, if the car is driven harder/ at higher revs/ kept out of the EGR operational "area" it will coke up less

Cleaning out the EGR/ inlet manifold should be part of the service schedule, but it is not,

A solid, stainless steel blanking plate will prevent further build up of contaminants in the EGR/ inlet manifold, and taking them off and cleaning them will ensure they are clean, if the hoses are still flexing then you can look into stiffer hoses, the hoses were designed for that purpose, and should still be ok at 50k, no point in changing them if the problem lies elsewhere

Once the EGR is sorted you can rule that out as a/ the problem

The ECU reads the boost pressure from the MAF sensor, if there is a phisical restriction (or leak - not in your case) between the turbo compressor outlet and the MAF the turbo will simply work harder to compensate, the boost pressure will remain the same (at the MAF) and no error codes will appear, because the ECU "sees" only the pressure at the MAF

[Alexm]

Ahh I see, ill see if I can get it booked in to get the EGR cleaned, it had had a relatively mundane life up until now my mum had it from new, although I have already replaced the boost hose (well the whole lot with the metal pipe) around 1K ago at a guess. Is there any guides on here how to do my specific EGR or not ?

[Alexm]

Just to let people know, my mechanic was reluctant to take all that apart if there was no driving problems at all, and believes it was just a combination of the jubilee clip being crap, and the position of the next piece of rubber into the metal piece was quite far in so it pulled itself off even in situ, let alone with the engine vibrating and moving, so put a new tight jubilee clip on and will keep my fingers crossed.

Also gave it an Italian tuneup and ran double my usual dose of millers diesel ecomax and all seems well, but I will post up if i have any further agro.

Just to confirm, getting to the EGR involves taking the turban and inlet off doesn't it, if i were to blank it, it's just a case of taking the pipe off. If I went to my ford specialist, would they be able to delete the EGR out the program of the car ?

What drawbacks are there to deleting the EGR ? Last one I did was on a 1.6 8v Astra and was literally 2 bolts to blank and then left it hanging and no problem, but obviously this is a different kettle of fish

[FOCA]

You have the 1.8 diesel, i've done a total EGR delete on my 2.0 (same as 2.2) Mondeo mk3, and Lenny has done a guide to fitting an EGR blanking plate to a 1.6, these are both completely different from yours

On the Mondeo (Mk3 diesels) you can phisically blank/ delete the EGR on a euro3 with no problems, the euro4s tend to put the EML (dash light) on, but no other problems normally occur, the EML can be reset with a code reader (available from about £20 online)

If its the old 8-valve 1.8 (the same as the Mondeo mk1s & 2s) it can be blanked ok, 2007 is quite late so you should check if it is a euro4

it has been reported that the euro4 1.6 PSA tdci does not seem to put its EML on when the EGR is blanked, so an electronic delete is not nessesary, perhaps yours is the same

is this your inlet manifold? - the plate goes on "top right" in the pic -

As always, a solid, stainless steel EGR blanking plate is best

There are many advantages to Blanking/ disabling the EGR -

More reliable - EGR valve can no longer fail / inlet can no longer choke up/ hoses last longer

Engine stays clean/ cleaner for longer

no need to clean out the EGR valve/ inlet manifold all the time anymore - one its done once is enough

No hesitation/ flatspots/ turbo lag caused by EGR system

Blanking the EGR (with a solid plate) can "fix" a faulty EGR system

Often, a (slightly) better MPG and performance is reported after the EGR is blanked

Saves money - it has been known for Mondeo mk3 owners to have to replace their EGR valves several times (at great expense) during ownership of their car a blanking plate costs about £5 :)

[Alexm]

Here's a couple of pics of what I can see, I was under the inpression that the blank went where that hose joins? Am i wrong?

Thanks for taking the time to write such a comprehensive reply, if I were to blank, and a fault code generated, would clearing it not be simply temporary, as it would surely just flag it up again somewhen down the line.

Also I'm not sure if its specific to my engine, but I heard it supposedly takes forever for the heater matrix to get hot once EGR blanked ? I came accross it whilst munging around searching, but can't seem to find the thread.

[salsheikh]

Hi Alex,

the EGR blank does fit where the metal hose attaches (no fault codes have appeared on my car since i had it done) and i replaced my rubber hose for a silicone one from Derby Performance Hose - approx £26

http://www.dphsiliconehose.co.uk/index.php?route=product/product&path=61&product_id=254

i forgot to add, it is normal for the hose to expand, even silicone ones do.

[Alexm]

Ahh class, thanks for that its always handy to have someone with my exact engine on board!

Yours is a year newer than mine, so guess its safe to say its Euro IV, I'm really suprised at it not throwing a light up, do u have any codes listed when you do a dash test ?

[Alexm]

Right, I'm so impatient, i found a person selling on on eBay and he lived right near me and fitted it also, so I will let everyone know if the EML comes on. Only thing left to answer is what happens if it does, can it be software deleted ?

Also found this trawling forums, someone said it destroyed their car not a ford I know but would raising the combustion temperature really risk killing my turban ?

"089578, on 18 June 2012 - 10:35 AM, said:

Hey guys, I have a mk3 2.o tdci 130 and WONT be doing any egr blanking this time around... I did this to my Delica diesel last summer and it blew the cylinder head due to increased combustion temperature increase.

A good clean out of the egr and manifold sounds like a good plan though...

Blanking should lower combustion temperatures, the recirculated gases will still be warm even though they pass through a cooler. With a blanked egr valve you only get cool air from the intercooler.

@nilagin... sorry but you are wrong!

It is not the temeperature of the air that makes the combustion temperatures cooler, recycled gasses lower the combustion temperature due to knox gasses. This brings the internal temperatures to within the tolerances that the head and turbo have been designed to tolerate. Removing/blocking the EGR will take the engine and turbo outside of these tolerances and lead to component failure"

[FOCA]

Hello again - its very simple - inside the combustion chamber, combustion produces heat, by burning fuel and oxegen, if burnt exhaust gases are fed into the combustion chamber instead/ as well as oxegen, less heat is produced, (and less power) this is the "flat spot"/ missing that occurs when the EGR valve is open

So the "cooling" effect of the EGR system is actually due to the engine producing no or less power due to lack of oxegen, this happens only when the EGR valve is open, the EGR valve (on most modern diesels) only opens at part-throttle at specific (low) revs, now because the engine produces the most power and heat (in the combustion chamber) at full trottle at higher revs (when the EGR valve is closed anyway) -

Blocking or disabling the EGR valve/ system cannot cause component falure/ overheating due to higher combustion chamber tempratures

Anyone claiming that it does is talking/ writing nonsense, has been mis-informed, or has mis-interpreted the facts for example read that "re-cycled (exhaust) gasses reduce the combustion chamber temp" without fully understanding the process power = heat - engines make heat, they are supposed to, if you switch the engine off it will stop the engine making heat, if you prevent the combustion process by injecting burnt exhaust gasses instead of oxegen-rich air, it will produce less or no heat (and power) at that moment - get-it?

If you complletely remove the egr cooler, the cabin heater can take longer to heat up because the heat from the exhaust manifold is not warming the engine coolant before it reaches the heater matrix, this is not a problem if you just blank the EGR (after the egr cooler - in a conventional place) the blanking plate will have no effect on the heat-output of the EGR cooler (heater will not take longer to warm up with the EGR blanked)

I fitted a blanking plate, then a total EGR delete on my Mondeo, 6 or 7 years ago, the head has not exploded and it still has the same pistons, conrods, crank, injectors, etc etc, the EGR delete has aided the short, and long- term reliability of the car

Many FOC members have now fitted blanking plates to their cars, and have reported (in general) smoother running, less flat spots, ans slightly improved performance and MPG

it is not nessesary to delete the EGR in software, a solid blanking plate can be fitted to a 2007 1.8 TDCI, without the EML (engine management light) coming on, and if it did, (which IMO, it won't) it could be reset with a code reader costing about £20

I would not worry too much about what is written on the internet, or other forums, most of it conflicting information or just peoples opinions, i base my knowledge on first- hand experience, or the experience/ feedback of other FOC members who have fitted EGR blanking plates that i respect and trust, like salsheikh and Lenny

[Alexm]

What an excellent informative reply, thankyou again, there are many misinformed souls on the Internet, I guess I will leave it blanked, for now and see how i get on.

Is there a reason the EML light doesn't come on ? Does it just detect the EGR is there rather than te flow of EGR ?

[FOCA]

What an excellent informative reply, thankyou again, there are many misinformed souls on the Internet, I guess I will leave it blanked, for now and see how i get on.

Is there a reason the EML light doesn't come on ? Does it just detect the EGR is there rather than te flow of EGR ?

Thanks, yes your feedback is appreciated

Yes, there is a reason the EML does not come on on some engines and comes on in others, -

On most Fords there is no sensor on the EGR valve itself,(or a special flow sensor for the EGR) to measure flow, or detect if the egr is blanked, the ECU uses the conventional sensors already on the engine, MAF / MAP etc, and when a signal is sent to the EGR to open, the ECU expects to see an increase in flow due to the pressure of the exhaust gasses going into the inlet, if this does mot happen the ECU "thinks" there is a fault in the EGR (on some euro4 / 5 Fords )

Some older engine designs were initially designed without EGR valves/ systems, or the EGR system was added on as an "afterthought" these are easier to blank or delete the EGR, and less liable to have problems

Other, more recent engine designs have the EGR system as a more integrated part, so is more difficult to blank, disable and/ or delete

Some EGR valves are very simple mechanical valves that are "open" or "closed" some have a proportional motor with a variable valve opening and a potentiometer to report the amount of valve opening (euro4 mk3 Mondeo)- so there are different EGR systems with different levels of sophistication - a euro4 mk3 Mondeo EGR valve is expensive (it is from Ford anyway)