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Craigp07

Focus Won't Start!!

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Hi all.

My 2005 focus 1.8tdci won't start. I was driving home 2 weeks ago and I suddenly went into limp mode, a message on the dash said "acceleration reduced" and another said "engine system fault". I got the car home ok but went to start it again 5 mins later and nothing!! I have power but it just won't turn over. So I took it to a garage (not ford) and they said I had water in the fuse box. They dried it all out and cleared the codes and everything was fine...... Until the next morning when the exact same thing happened again. Back at the garage again and they said it was the same problem so they dried it again, put a plastic sheet over the fuse board and fitted a new windscreen as this was where they thought the water was coming from. All fine again until the following morning when it all happened again. I have spent over £500 trying to get it sorted but keep ending up at square 1 again. Has anyone else has this trouble, any help would be appreciated!!

Craig.

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I'm not sure what error codes are coming up on the reader. I'm going to the garage again tonight so I will ask and let you know. I did get "steering assist failure" on the dash a couple of months ago but it cleared itself. Do you think that would be related?

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could be an electrical gremlin, if you have anything plugged into the car (code reader, or tuning box or something else in the OBDII ports, then remove them, as this could cause part of the problem...

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Ok. Just got home and did the dashboard trick. I have error codes - D900, E200, E197, E510 and D147. I have no idea what these codes are or if they are relevant?? Guy at the garage is going to take my fuse board out again and dry it all out again as he said there could still be damp left over in it. He said if that doesn't work then it's a whole fuse board replacement which doesn't sound cheap!!

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As I remember, D900 is a generic communication fault. Often generated when a code is read if its not done so by Ford's IDS hardware.

E200 is Invalid data for odometer (Invalid CAN message)

E197 is Invalid data for vehicle speed (Invalid CAN message)

E510 I cannot find a definitive answer, suggestions indicate perhaps Throttle Position Sensor error

D147 may also be U11547 which reads Invalid or Missing Data for Vehicle Security.

I would suggest that if these errors keep returning after an error code reset, then the errors may reflect a faulty VSS and/or TPS which is causing the two top and bottom errors to be generated.

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Also, answering your earlier post. I do not have anything plugged into the car.

Did you get fixed this thing i have same same error exept from the E510.Please let me know what did you do??Thanks

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Hi Craig,

sorry for my poor english, I'm writing from Hungary.

My problem is the same. Error codes: E510, D900, E200, E197.

What was the solution?

Thanks in advance!

Szabolcs

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Hi...I've the same DTC code E510 and my focus won't start showing TRANSMISSION MALFUNCTION message...any help please? (focus year 2011 1.8 TDCI).

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sounds like the famous Cluster Gone Bad syndrome that affected the mk2 and mk2.5

Jamie

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10 hours ago, james_60 said:

sounds like the famous Cluster Gone Bad syndrome that affected the mk2 and mk2.5

Jamie

the best is there's no feedback from users on how they resolved this issue except going to official FF dealer... :(

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9 hours ago, fleo23dz said:

the best is there's no feedback from users on how they resolved this issue except going to official FF dealer... :(

I have found. Using Forum Search tool. Mk2 instrument cluster failure. 

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On 04/04/2017 at 10:06 PM, fleo23dz said:

.I've the same DTC code E510 and my focus won't start showing TRANSMISSION MALFUNCTION message

The dash display Code E510 means DTC U2510,

U2510 - Invalid security data received from powertrain ECU (PCM)

There are a few possible causes for this, from the Instrument Cluster (IC), through the wiring (CAN bus connections), to the PCM. Possibly even the PATS sensing coil around the ignition lock barrel, or its connections.

I guess your car is a Mk2a Focus. If so there should be some big connectors just in front of the passenger door, under the plastic trim panels. The trim just unclips, starting from the middle of the bottom of the door, after pushing off the door seal rubber. I would check those for corrosion or damage. Also the big connector built in to the Engine bay fuse box. The CAN bus passes through these connectors.

There is also a 3A fuse in the engine bay fuse box (F30) that can cause problems like this.

A powerful Ford specific diagnostic system like Forscan might yield some more codes and data that could help narrow the problem down. Also there is a simple resistance test that will tell if the main CAN bus is intact from PCM to IC:

Stick a couple of suitable probes (un-bent paper clips can work quite well) in the diagnostic connector pins 6-14, put a DMM across the pair on voltage range, turn ignition on, note reading, turn ignition off, wait till voltage drops to zero (+/- 1 or 2 mV), switch to resistance range to check for 60 ohms.

It should be stable at close to 60 ohms, any deviations would indicate a problem.

If 60 ohms, try tapping and moving various suspects, eg the fascia around the IC, the connector by the front door sill, the connector in the engine bay fuse box, and maybe the PCM. Look for any deviations. (IC = Instrument Cluster)

If not 60 ohms, disconnect the engine bay fuse box big connector, see if reading goes up. If it does, then IC is the fault, if not then PCM may be the fault.

-----

If your car was a 2006 Focus, I would say it was the IC, as this is a very common fault on these. But for 2011, it would be a bit early to blame the IC without further tests. If it is the IC, there are companies offering to repair them for about £100. A Ford dealer would charge over £800 for one!

I can give more info on Forscan, wiring details, and repair options, if of any use.

 

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13 hours ago, Tdci-Peter said:

The dash display Code E510 means DTC U2510,

U2510 - Invalid security data received from powertrain ECU (PCM)

There are a few possible causes for this, from the Instrument Cluster (IC), through the wiring (CAN bus connections), to the PCM. Possibly even the PATS sensing coil around the ignition lock barrel, or its connections.

I guess your car is a Mk2a Focus. If so there should be some big connectors just in front of the passenger door, under the plastic trim panels. The trim just unclips, starting from the middle of the bottom of the door, after pushing off the door seal rubber. I would check those for corrosion or damage. Also the big connector built in to the Engine bay fuse box. The CAN bus passes through these connectors.

There is also a 3A fuse in the engine bay fuse box (F30) that can cause problems like this.

A powerful Ford specific diagnostic system like Forscan might yield some more codes and data that could help narrow the problem down. Also there is a simple resistance test that will tell if the main CAN bus is intact from PCM to IC:

Stick a couple of suitable probes (un-bent paper clips can work quite well) in the diagnostic connector pins 6-14, put a DMM across the pair on voltage range, turn ignition on, note reading, turn ignition off, wait till voltage drops to zero (+/- 1 or 2 mV), switch to resistance range to check for 60 ohms.

It should be stable at close to 60 ohms, any deviations would indicate a problem.

If 60 ohms, try tapping and moving various suspects, eg the fascia around the IC, the connector by the front door sill, the connector in the engine bay fuse box, and maybe the PCM. Look for any deviations. (IC = Instrument Cluster)

If not 60 ohms, disconnect the engine bay fuse box big connector, see if reading goes up. If it does, then IC is the fault, if not then PCM may be the fault.

-----

If your car was a 2006 Focus, I would say it was the IC, as this is a very common fault on these. But for 2011, it would be a bit early to blame the IC without further tests. If it is the IC, there are companies offering to repair them for about £100. A Ford dealer would charge over £800 for one!

I can give more info on Forscan, wiring details, and repair options, if of any use.

 

Thank you Peter & James for your valuable feedback. Here's what i'd already did : checking all fuses where available (all fine)+ re-soldering the famous connector pins of the IC (not resolving the issue). Still to go checking CAN connections.

@Peter : wiring drawing will help me testing the connections properly. Many thanks

P.S.: I've already tried Forscan with ELM based device to diag faults. Forscan could not find the engine.

However with DELPHI diag (from a friend of mine) it was possible to access instrument DTC codes without possibility to reset them. they always shows up even after reseting.

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22 minutes ago, fleo23dz said:

wiring drawing will help me testing the connections properly. Many thanks

P.S.: I've already tried Forscan with ELM based device to diag faults. Forscan could not find the engine.

The diagnostic interface uses the HS-CAN bus to talk to all the under-bonnet modules. Difficulty in making contact suggests a problem with the CAN bus.

The wiring diagram is on this site, all 130+ pages! It takes a bit of following. The engine is Lynx. There is a handy layout drawing on page 2 or 3.

http://www.fordownersclub.com/forums/applications/core/interface/file/attachment.php?id=42087

or for the Mk3 Focus:

http://www.fordownersclub.com/forums/applications/core/interface/file/attachment.php?id=42086

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Hi Fleo, Craig and everyone else,

Did you ever get to the bottom of your problem?

I am experiencing the same issue with exactly the same error codes. My car has also stopped communicating with my modified ELM327 and Forscan.

wont turn over at all. Sometimes get Transmission Malfunction. Sometimes Engine Malfunction and even Power Steering Fault. The Immobiliser LED is throwing the code 1:6 which is a comma issue between PCM and PATS.

I have a feeling it's CAN related.

I've had the IC checked and repaired but still the same.

The CAN resistance check gives me 3.5k?

I'm stumped and any help would be greatly appreciated.

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20 hours ago, BeOneOptica said:

The CAN resistance check gives me 3.5k?

Most newish Fords have two (or more) CAN buses:

The HS-CAN (high speed), that goes from the PCM to the IC (Instrument Cluster), via most of the underbonnet modules like ABS, Steering (EHPAS), etc.

The MS-CAN (medium speed), that goes from the IC to the BCM (Body Control Module, aka GEM), via the internal modules like Doors, radio, park aid.

The IC is rather critical in that it is the gateway between all internal modules, and the engine & underbonnet modules.

The diagnostic connector has both CAN buses, and the scanner (OBD2 or other) connects to the HS-CAN bus to read the DTCs and other information, directly from the relevant modules. A "Modified ELM" can connect to the MS-CAN bus, also.

All this inter-connection means that CAN bus problems can have a huge range of possibly confusing symptoms. A good diagnostic aid like Forscan is a help, it interrogates all modules, and reports which module the DTC is in. But the CAN bus needs to be connected for it to work.

The terminus modules (IC, PCM & BCM) have 120ohm terminating resistors in them, the other modules are just "bus stops" along the route. This can be used for a simple test: an un-powered CAN bus should read 60 ohms from line to line, on a multimeter.

3.5kohms on the DLC (diagnostic connector) suggests a problem with the wiring to the DLC. Is this the HS-CAN bus on pins 6 to 14 in the DLC, or the MS-CAN bus on pins 3 & 11?

To do the resistance test, put the DMM on voltage range across the two pins, and verify that the voltage is zero (a few mV max). The bus will stay energised for a while after ignition off, until the PCM powers down. Any voltage present on the lines will corrupt the ohms reading. If zero volts, switch to ohms range to take the reading. If the PCM, or any other module on the bus, is not powering down properly, the resistance test is invalid.

So 60 ohms is correct, 120 ohms would be one break in either CAN bus line, and over 120 ohms (give or take a few ohms) would indicate two breaks in the CAN bus (one each side of the DLC), or a fault in the spur to the DLC.

(Ford have a nasty way of hiding critical joints in the wiring loom, including the CAN buses, using just a crimped or soldered joint wrapped in tape.)

I am not sure what car (year / version) you have. The wiring diagrams for the Mk2/2A and Mk3 Focus are on this site, & I have them also. The C-Max is very similar. The connectors in the CAN buses can be identified from these diagrams. This would enable sections of the buses to be tested for resistance.

 

 

Edited by Tdci-Peter
Change 18 to 14! Typo, & not checked.

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57 minutes ago, Tdci-Peter said:

3.5kohms on the DLC (diagnostic connector) suggests a problem with the wiring to the DLC. Is this the HS-CAN bus on pins 6 to 18 in the DLC, or the MS-CAN bus on pins 3 & 11? 

Hi Peter,

Thank you for your very thoroughly explanation and reply.

I did think something was way wrong. I measured between 6 and 14 as highlighted in one of your previous replies. Are you sure it's 6-18 as I thought (although might be incorrect) that the DLC is a 16 pin connector?

My car is a 59 plate C-Max 2.0 TDCi.

I'll measure both the HS and MS pins again tomorrow.

Would you be so kind to point me in the direction of the schematics?

I'm also going to strip the IC out again tomorrow in case the connector has come loose and I'll double check the connectors at the passenger foot well and engine fuse box.

Thank you again.

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Just be lucky your car is reading faults, I once parked mine in a car park, no lights or anything, 30 mins later, after I had done my shopping, it wouldnt start at all... turned out after expensive repair, fuel pump failed on it completely. Was lucky a garage was less than 100 meters away, so I pushed it there. They also found "water" sitting in the spark plug bays and even asked me if I have just driven it through a flood.... stupid mechanics, no way I'd drive through a flood, plus it hadnt rained in several days!

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Hey Crazy, my car wasn't reading faults and I wasn't lucky in the slightest. I was passing a car on a windy hilly country road and my car cut out completely. I had to force myself back into my lane and onto the verge before I ground to a halt. I had no warning other than a 5 minute limp mode the week before.

Anyway, I disconnected the battery earth last night.

Today I did the CAN resistance test on pins 3-11 and 6-14 which gave me the results of 61.9 and 60.7 respectively. Disconnected the connector in the engine fuse box and it sprung up to 119.7. Disconnected the IC connector and also sprung up to 120.9. With resistor tolerances this looked OK.

Double checked all fuses. Gave the fuse box, IC, key barrel connectors a clean with IPA and reconnected the battery earth. 

Plugged in Forscan and was greeted with a massive list of fault codes (see images). Decided these were legacy from the failed IC so cleared them. Car started 😁

Let it tick over for a while and then took it for a 10 mile journey. Rechecked the fault codes and I have a DPF P2002-E1 and an ABS U2023-A0 (last image).

Would any of these have caused my car to cut out the way it did or is it safe to say that it was the CAN communication from the IC which has now been fixed (was sent to a company to repair)?

Screenshot_20170820-120111.png

Screenshot_20170820-120131.png

Screenshot_20170820-120124.png

Screenshot_20170820-120136.png

Screenshot_20170820-120131.png

Screenshot_20170820-121333.png

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3 hours ago, BeOneOptica said:

Rechecked the fault codes and I have a DPF P2002-E1 and an ABS U2023-A0 (last image).

Would any of these have caused my car to cut out the way it did or is it safe to say that it was the CAN communication from the IC which has now been fixed

I am 99.9% sure that the cut out problem would be the IC. No fault would ever intentionally cut the engine, it would only limit power at the most. The IC carries so many vital signals that it could possibly cause total engine failure while running, though even that is rare. It usually causes a failure to start (immobilised). All those U codes you had are a classic symtom of IC failure.

P2002 could be just due to a failure to do a DPF regen. If you have had error codes present for some time, they will often prevent regens from happening. Forscan can tell you how many miles ago the last regen was. The next suspect would be the hoses to the DPF DP sensor, or the sensor itself.

U2023 is an odd one. It is being raised in the ABS, I think it means the ABS cannot communicate with another module, maybe the IC or PCM, If there are no other symptoms, just log it and clear it at intervals, until some other clue comes up. There may be a bit of a dodgy connection somewhere, nothing was working earlier, now most of it is ok, whoich could be the battery disconnect (reset), or disturbing connectors.

Links to the schematics are a bit further up in this thread. I think you need the Mk2/2a one, the Mk3 did not come out until about 2011, though the dates for the C-Max design updates are a bit out of sync with the Focus.

Pages 25-26 show the wiring for the HS CAN bus. There are connector faceviews from page 112 on.

Your resistance readings now sound just right. It is worth rechecking these at times, especially when disturbing any wiring or connectors, in case there is some dodgy contact there.

Well spotted with the pin 18 typo :blush:, it was late at night & I did not check it properly. (Excuses, excuses :laugh:)

 

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17 hours ago, CrazyInWeston said:

They also found "water" sitting in the spark plug bays and even asked me if I have just driven it through a flood.... stupid mechanics, no way I'd drive through a flood, plus it hadnt rained in several days!

Water in the plug recesses can be a big problem on some Fords. It has appeared a few times on this site, usually due to leaks in the windscreen washing hoses or nozzles, just above the plugs. It can cause severe problems from stalling, to snapped off plugs due to rusting into the head. But the fix is simple once the cause is known.

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6 hours ago, Tdci-Peter said:

Water in the plug recesses can be a big problem on some Fords. It has appeared a few times on this site, usually due to leaks in the windscreen washing hoses or nozzles, just above the plugs. It can cause severe problems from stalling, to snapped off plugs due to rusting into the head. But the fix is simple once the cause is known.

Hmm thats actually quite interesting, I do on the odd occasion get the random "washer fluid low" light popping up and displaying on the dash, its never bothered me as I regularly use the washer to wipe my windscreens and I'm always buying 6x2ltr bottles of water anyway, just thought the light came on because of washer use and therefore it being low. I never thought it would/could be a leak and that it would contribute to water into the spark plug bays in the slightest. I'll have to get it looked into now, thanks.

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