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Pirelli Or Silverstone?


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#1 Major Eazy

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Posted 30 June 2013 - 04:57 PM

During the 2013 British Grand Prix at Silverstone, 5 cars had their tyres blew out (4 of them had their rear wheels blew while the other 1 had its front wheel blew, I believe according to reports but neverless...) all are actually on the left side. At the end of the race, during post-race interviews, one of the BBC reporters and a camera crew went out to the left-hand corner where it seems to be where the cars get the tyre cuts that leads to blow-outs, they showed that the kerb seems to have a little step.

But considering that Pirelli who supplied the tyres to all F1 team, if I remember, didn't FIA suggest new rules that tyres must be designed to last shorter time rather than longer time, in order to ensure cars come in for more pit-stops, because when to come in and change tyres is part of the game. Because of that, could Pirelli have designed a much weaker range of tyres?

I'm rather confuse. Should Silverstone having some parts of its course, like the kerb at that corner which cut the tyres leading to blowouts be at fault for having unsafe tracks,, or should it be Pirelli's fault for badly design of the tyres, weren't they supposed to make the tyre itself wear out faster but ensure the tyre walls should be strong enough, maybe lower standards than what the FIA asked for?

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#2 Stoney871

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Posted 30 June 2013 - 10:49 PM

It was the main body of the tyres letting go rather than the side walls.
I reckon a design flaw coupled with that step made for a nasty hazard that caught quite a few out.
For Hamilton to complain it must have been bad.

#3 FOCA

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Posted 30 June 2013 - 11:39 PM

Whatever the "ins-and-outs" of it, and whoever/ whatever is to blame,(perhaps it is many things), safety should be paramount, and drivers should not have to suffer dangerous potential 200mph blowouts in order to make the racing more interesting  



#4 Stoney871

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Posted 30 June 2013 - 11:49 PM

Agreed.
How does killing another driver make it more interesting?
It's already dangerous enough without adding avoidable hazards.

#5 Major Eazy

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Posted 01 July 2013 - 05:53 PM

It was the main body of the tyres letting go rather than the side walls.
I reckon a design flaw coupled with that step made for a nasty hazard that caught quite a few out.
For Hamilton to complain it must have been bad.


Is there a different between the usual side wall as we know it which we can see and the side wall that is on the other side of the tyre? I mean, I assume the outer side of the side walls would be designed to be tough because sometimes the side walls get touched by other cars' front wings, other tyres, and so on, it seems that according to the camera view of the kerb, the drivers's cars, if too far to the left, would result in the other side of the side-walls against the outer edge of the kerb.

#6 b1g_dav3

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Posted 01 July 2013 - 06:09 PM

The tyres aren't designed to fail after so long, they soften the compound to add extra grip and decrease tyre life. Trouble is when something like a sharp kerb comes, because the rubber is soft they take a beating. 

 

I remember a few years back where a lot of teams pulled out of the Indy circuit, because the tyres were shredding due to the track having some sort of extra grip material, but when the cars run in reverse it shredded the tyres, Bridgestone knew this because Firestone their sister company had experience of it and sent stronger tyres, those on Michelin's suffered.



#7 Major Eazy

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Posted 01 July 2013 - 06:17 PM

Agreed.
How does killing another driver make it more interesting?
It's already dangerous enough without adding avoidable hazards.


I agree too.

Safety rules is not just there for its primary role, to ensure the safefy of the drivers, but also for its secondary role, it already makes F1 challenging and interesting enough, (it is easy to break the rules to win, but it is more challenging and harder to try to design a safer car, and to drive it safety within the rules,) without Pirelli thinking ramping up the danger levels.

#8 vince_13

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Posted 01 July 2013 - 08:22 PM

what makes me laugh is how pirelli have handled it, going on speculation, they approached the teams to do testing of tyres throughout the season, all of which apart from Mercedes said no, Mercedes apparently did testing with pirelli to solve some issues with the tyres, using a current car (which imo is the only way to test them, you wouldn't test new brakes on an old car) soon after both pirelli and Mercedes got reprimanded for the said testing due to the car they used, however revealed today that bernie has agreed for pirelli to carry out further testing to improve the safety of the tyres with no restrictions on cars

 

it just seems so backwards to me, its wrong, when these new tyres came into affect before the 2013 season extensive testing should of been done including high speed endurance testing, which could have highlighted and eradicated the delamination of the tyres



#9 Foci_st3

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Posted 01 July 2013 - 08:55 PM

Hi guys unless I've missed it no has mentioned the fact of tyre pressure and how this directly effects the temperature control of the tyres, the first thing u heard button say over the radio was his tyres felt like they were over heating.

Tyres are made of not only rubber they have steel bracing in them, if this steel bracing overheats it will weaken. All the cars were possibley running a max of 18psi maybe lower and this particular silverstone event was very hot this year. As the tyres heat up the pressure increases but the air in them also keeps them cool so if there's not enough air the tyre is essentially running flat which puts more stress on the casing.

From what I saw the splits/cuts where accuring on the inside edge of the left rear, Lewis had his go first at wellington then massa after just before at the loop then followed issues down the hanger straight. Mark webber lost his front wing end plate coming into farm and village where the cars are at high speed off the pit straight. Debris from Lewis and massa causes issues for cars later on around down hanger straight but then no more issues after they all changed and cleaned the track.

I did hear rosbergs tyre was close to blowing when vettel dropped out so that's the only anomaly.

Silverstone hasn't changed since last year and was checked by the race director before the race and all drivers do a track walk before practice. Plenty of cars where exceeding track limits with all 4 wheels off the track so u can't blame a sharp kerb on the outside of the track because drivers shouldn't be there anyway. Pirelli design the tyres to race of the track if the drivers want to go on a rally cross then there in the wrong job.

I think the biggest problem was Pirelli had designed these tyres for British weather like we had on Friday so didnt expect European weather for race day but at the same time the teams should of managed the pressures better and made sure there drivers stayed away from kerbs as its just not necessary to run on them where there's ment to be no grip on paint.

Ppl may think I'm wrong and sum may agree but this is my opinion of why things happened how they did, thank you

#10 Foci_st3

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Posted 01 July 2013 - 09:02 PM

Also just watched the report and that reporter is a complete !Removed! head, as I said before the drivers should not be that far over so they are all basically cutting the corner to shorten the track length and cheating.

#11 FOCA

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Posted 03 July 2013 - 02:41 PM

Also just watched the report and that reporter is a complete !Removed! head, as I said before the drivers should not be that far over so they are all basically cutting the corner to shorten the track length and cheating.

Strictly speaking the white lines define the edge of the track, so the kerbs are, effectively, off the track, its just that almost everyone uses them, the sharp "teeth" were put there to keep cars off them,

 

The race organisors could take a "zero tolerance" approach and simply disqualify or penalise any car that put even a mm off the track, like in tennis

 

its like saying "this white line is the track boundary -  cross it/ put a wheel over it and you have left the track"

 

 

Another point worth mentioning is Pirelli supplies all the tyres to all the teams, (not like in the past where there were competing tyre manufacturers/ suppliers) so creating a "tough as nails" tyre that could take a lot of abuse without a problem, if it was heavier etc, it would affect all teams equally (in theory) the carcass/ construction sidewalls etc could be very strong but the tyre could still wear at a similar rate/ be made to last a certain measured  amount  



#12 Foci_st3

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Posted 03 July 2013 - 07:11 PM


 
 
Another point worth mentioning is Pirelli supplies all the tyres to all the teams, (not like in the past where there were competing tyre manufacturers/ suppliers) so creating a "tough as nails" tyre that could take a lot of abuse without a problem, if it was heavier etc, it would affect all teams equally (in theory) the carcass/ construction sidewalls etc could be very strong but the tyre could still wear at a similar rate/ be made to last a certain measured  amount  


They could make the sidewalls and shoulders harder like they do for the ROF (run on flat) car tyres but the ride of these is rubbish compared to normal car tyres so adding this to an already finely tuned race car would be very difficult.

heard on the radio this morning that Pirelli have responded saying the tyres are safe and there are no defects and that it was the teams not using them to the correct guidelines set by pirelli.

#13 FOCA

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Posted 04 July 2013 - 01:08 PM


They could make the sidewalls and shoulders harder like they do for the ROF (run on flat) car tyres but the ride of these is rubbish compared to normal car tyres so adding this to an already finely tuned race car would be very difficult.

heard on the radio this morning that Pirelli have responded saying the tyres are safe and there are no defects and that it was the teams not using them to the correct guidelines set by pirelli.

 

 

you would be amazed what the can do if they had to, the tyres could be a lot tougher, with very little impact on performance, F1 teams can cope with massive rule changes, designed to slow the cars down, and still produce a fast (sometimes even faster) cars again as Pirrelli supplies all the teams, it would affect all F1 teams equally,  with no teams gaining an advantage



#14 FOCA

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Posted 04 July 2013 - 01:13 PM

F1 should be at the leading edge of technology, how the teams/ designers interpret the rules is part of the "game" to say that is "cheating" is a matter of "perception" and open to interpretation

 

it is not a "one make" series with identical cars, there are other formulas for that 



#15 Major Eazy

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Posted 05 July 2013 - 12:01 PM

 

From what I saw the splits/cuts where accuring on the inside edge of the left rear, Lewis had his go first at wellington then massa after just before at the loop then followed issues down the hanger straight. Mark webber lost his front wing end plate coming into farm and village where the cars are at high speed off the pit straight. Debris from Lewis and massa causes issues for cars later on around down hanger straight but then no more issues after they all changed and cleaned the track.

I think that most of those cars may get the same sort of cut at the same location, but how bad depends on how close the inside wall of their tyres were to the outer edge of the kerb. So in theory, one car's tyre may be right at the edge, it gave it a big deep cut, and there you have a sudden blow-out, like what happened to Massa, his car got a blew-out right at the corner, casuing him to spin off the track, facing the wrong way, and he did this amazing U-turn with a blew tyre just to try to get back on track, well if it was Massa, but if not Massa, then the other guy. And for others, if they're too close but not right at the edge, they get a cut that may start to get bigger and bigger, they may be lucky enough to drive on for a while, but sooner or later, their tyres blew-out, like those who had their tyres blew-out while they were on the straights. So the blew-outs happens here and there, making it look like it could be debris all over the track did that. So out comes the safety car, the F1 cars slow down, the marshalls came on the tracks and tried to clean it up as best as they could.

But i recall that while it was happening, there was reports that Pirelli informed all teams to please tell their drivers to stay away from that kerb.

After that, drivers stayed away from the kerb, so no more blew-outs for a while, so it would give the impressation that the clean up of the track did the job. It wasn't until one more car got too close to the kerb and then got a blew-out!

Silverstone hasn't changed since last year and was checked by the race director before the race and all drivers do a track walk before practice. Plenty of cars where exceeding track limits with all 4 wheels off the track so u can't blame a sharp kerb on the outside of the track because drivers shouldn't be there anyway. Pirelli design the tyres to race of the track if the drivers want to go on a rally cross then there in the wrong job.


Ppl may think I'm wrong and sum may agree but this is my opinion of why things happened how they did, thank you

No you are not wrong and I vaule your option, you do have a point, drivers would want to get to know the track, walk around it, drive around it, look at photos of every corners, whatever they do, I've seen the movie 'Cool Runnings' where the driver looked at photos of every turns to remember what to do, so I assume drivers are likely to do something similar. Yes, they will be rules, do not go over that kerb, stay within the white lines, oh by the way, if you go over that kerb, there's a sharp edge on the outside edge of that kerb, you get a cut on your tyres, that's your fault for going off the track too much, so don't blame the kerb, I agree with you, but here's the problem...

Sometimes you are forced by other cars to go off track. It's that car trying to overtake you on the outside of a bend, and he's getting too close to you, you're forced to get even more closer to the kerb, and if you know there's a sharp edge on that kerb, you're thinking "Oh just !Removed! great! My tyre is gonna get a cut!" Yeah, drivers shouldn't be there, but sometimes they are forced there anyway.

PS: I also agree with you Foci_st3, that tyres should be made to have harder sidewalls and shoulders, to ensure they don't get cuts from sharp kerbs or other cars' front wings.

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