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Dpf Or No Dpf?


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#1 AlecPhilpott

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Posted 19 July 2013 - 07:23 PM

Sorry to ask, but I have gone round in circles on this one.

 

I need to know if I have a DPF on my 2011 1.8tdci Mondeo Tit+

 

Dealer who sold it to me said yes, but they have been wrong about everything on the car

 

I tried Etis, which said:

 

Primary Features     Build Date:   19.09.2010 Vehicle Line:   Mondeo 2007- Body Style:   5 Door Saloon Version:   Series 60 Engine:   1.8L Duratorq-TDCi (125PS) - Lynx Transmission:   6 Speed Manual Transaxle - MMT6 Drive:   RHD FWD Emission:   Stage IV Emissions Air Conditioning:   Dual Zone Auto Temp Control A/C Territory:   (+)"GB" Paint:   Lunar Sky Interior Fabric:   New York/Lux / Ebony

 

 

I am at a  loss as I thought Etis would say Stage IV + DPF Emmissions if it had a DPF

 

Only need to know as I was going to order a Ronbox tuning box.

 

Any pointers appreciated.

 

Alec



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#2 FOCA

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Posted 19 July 2013 - 09:06 PM

As far as i was aware all the mk4 (2007 - ) Diesel Mondeos have DPFs (Diesel Particle Filters) - definately the 2.0L and 2.2L PSA engined ones

 

Edit - after some sleuthing - the earlier ones (2007 - 8) did not have a DPF(in some countries), but the later ones probably have, as you have stated the ETIS should state it has a DPF - the ETIS has been known to be wrong before though - worth looking at the car to see if you can phisically see the DPF   

 

 

Does it specifically say the Ronbox tuning box cannot be used with a DPF - equipped engine? perhaps it can be used at a lower setting/ not too high a setting that might produce exessive smoke that may contaminate the DPF?

 

Perhaps you should get in touch with Roverron (do they still cal him/themselves this?) to see what they say about it as it is their product/tuning box



#3 AlecPhilpott

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Posted 19 July 2013 - 09:35 PM

Thanks. They sell a box for motors with a dpf and one without. I believe if you have a dpf and get the wrong box, it can overdo the tuning during regeneration.

If I stick my head under the car, can I tell easily?

#4 FOCA

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Posted 19 July 2013 - 11:25 PM

Thanks. They sell a box for motors with a dpf and one without. I believe if you have a dpf and get the wrong box, it can overdo the tuning during regeneration.

If I stick my head under the car, can I tell easily?

So its safe to use the tuning box for the DPF- equipped engine on the non-DPF engine but not vice-versa?  

 

The ETIS says its a GB model but does not say it has a DPF (though it could potentially be wrong) -2011 seems a bit late for a non-DPF engine

 

It says its 125PS - are the DPF & non- DPF 125PS (could this be a clue?)

 

If you can get the car high enough (on jack/s axel stands or a ramp etc) to get a photo of the exhaust as it comes out of the manifold,  

 

There could be a Catalitic converter, which looks like a DPF though (the mk3s had these)

 

But the picture/s could be very useful in spotting if it has a DPF, and may be compared to other 1.8s with/ without and schematics of exhaust system with/ without a DPF  

 

Sorry i could not be more helpful



#5 AlecPhilpott

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Posted 20 July 2013 - 05:51 AM

You are being more than helpful!
 
There are 2 ronboxes for the mondeo - one for motors with DPF and one without  - I just need to choose the right one.  From what I read if you use the DPF box on a non-DPF motor you will not be getting the best from the tuning through the throttle range and if you do it the other way, you may cause damage during regen.
 
I'll see if I can stick a vid cam on the end of a pole and get some footage.  Sadly my house has a drive like a ski slope and a garage full of junk, so jacking it is a pain.
 
Get back to you soon - thanks for sticking with me!

#6 FOCA

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Posted 20 July 2013 - 06:44 PM

You are being more than helpful!
 
There are 2 ronboxes for the mondeo - one for motors with DPF and one without  - I just need to choose the right one.  From what I read if you use the DPF box on a non-DPF motor you will not be getting the best from the tuning through the throttle range and if you do it the other way, you may cause damage during regen.
 
I'll see if I can stick a vid cam on the end of a pole and get some footage.  Sadly my house has a drive like a ski slope and a garage full of junk, so jacking it is a pain.
 
Get back to you soon - thanks for sticking with me!

Ok - if the worst comes to the wors you could always go for the tuning box for the DPF, might loose a bit of power but at least your DPF (if you actually have one!) would be safe  

 

Another option would be to go for the Superchipd Blufin instead -

 

http://www.mybluefin...8TDCi123bhp.pdf

 

The Superchips Bluefin has a claimed power/ torque increase to 144BHP and 339Nm, wihich would bring your 1.8TDCI upto a bit more than the 140PS (138Hp) 320Nm version of the 2.0L TDCI mk4 Mondeo,

 

You would need to check with Superchips but i would imagine the Bluefin works with both DPF and non-DPF varsions of your car, Having ran an expensive DTUK tuning box for years then switching to Bluefin (on the same car) i can tell you the Bluefin has a lot more top- end power/ revs than the tuning box, the tuning box had nore bottom end grunt- Superchips produced special revised maps for me, (twice) so i have just about the same bottom-end-grunt (power and torque at low revs ) as the tuning box but a lot more top end power (especially above 3k)  - the Bluefin is a bit more expensive than the tuning box, though

 

 

You could always wait untill the exhaust system went rusty/ fell off, then give the car to an exhaust specialist and ask then to de-cat it or do a DPF delete, (some do the whole package - phisical / electronic DPF delete, fit a custom stainless exhaust and a remap- not cheap though) - some might examine your car for free(to check the presence of a DPF) to give you a quote  (if you know what i mean :))

 

It should'nt be this difficult :lol:



#7 AlecPhilpott

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Posted 20 July 2013 - 07:28 PM

Very nice idea there!

 

some HD vid uploading 

 

from the top first, then along the bottom.  There is something I put the light on at the start, but that could be the cat?

 

Could do with finding a schematic somewhere so I know what I am looking for.

 

Bluefin prices made me feel faint - I'm a cheap whatsit.....



#8 FOCA

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Posted 20 July 2013 - 09:17 PM

Well, looking at the vid, there is nothing on the horizontal pipe at all, afrer the flexi or the 90 degree turn on the downpipe, so if there is a DPF, it must be in-between the engine and the bulkhead, on  the vertical part of the pipe/ downpipe- if you could get a picture of that.....



#9 AlecPhilpott

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Posted 21 July 2013 - 06:31 AM

Righto - might be a bot more difficult that, but will give it a go.

 

Was that thing I shone the light on the cat?

 

Edit: and thanks for taking the time to look at the vid.



#10 FOCA

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Posted 21 July 2013 - 12:10 PM

Righto - might be a bot more difficult that, but will give it a go.

 

Was that thing I shone the light on the cat?

 

Edit: and thanks for taking the time to look at the vid.

I could not tell if it was a DPF or a cat, it was hard to make out from on top, when you were underneath it seemed to be clearer  



#11 FOCA

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Posted 22 July 2013 - 11:29 PM

Afrer Dr Whatson left 221B Baker Street i was smoking my pipe in my deerstalker and looking at the shematic - (that i found after some sleuthing) :lol:  -

 

Mondeo mk4 1.8 tdci exhaust systems.jpg

 

After a process of deduction  - 

 

The cat (5E212) is connected to the exhaust manifold, it connects to the downpipe/ flexi (5G203A) 

 

And on the models with a DPF, the DPF sits on the front of the long horizontal exhaust section, after the downpipe/ flexi,  in-between the 2 mounts (thats why the mounts are so wide in the video, to acommodate the (missing on your car) DPF)

 

So there is just a plain bit of pipe in your video, so, in my opinion,  your car does not have a DPF

 

Although this is backed up by the ETIS, i would get a second opinion as i am not 100% certain    



#12 AlecPhilpott

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Posted 23 July 2013 - 07:19 AM

Where on earth did you find the schematic?  I looked for hours!!!

 

I certainly thoughts the DPF would be on the horizontal section, but that helps a lot.

 

I think I may drop in the dealer who sold it to me and ask them to point at the DPF they said was fitted.  I'll have my camera handy......!

 

That's good news on two counts:

 

1)  I dont have to worry about a DPF sooting up; and

2)  I can get a Ronbox that does a slightly better job.

 

Thank you for your help!  (I acknowledge the caveat you add "in your opinion", which is fair enough)

 

regards

Alec



#13 AlecPhilpott

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Posted 23 July 2013 - 10:37 AM

At the point of sale, the Sales Manager went to the service department to ask of the car had a DPF, to which they responded "yes, of course it does".

 

Went to the dealer from whom I purchased the car this morning to ask them to point to it.  Before they put it on the ramp, the service chap basically said I was wasting his time, "they all have one these days".  He humoured me and looked under the bonnet (not sure why?) then put it on the lift so he could show me the unit in-situ...and

 

wham.....there it is........

 

 

 

DPF.JPG

 

Oh, no, hang on.  You haven't got one - that's where it should be.......

 

Thanks so much for the help FOCA - really appreciate the efforts.

 

where did you get that schematic?



#14 AlecPhilpott

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Posted 24 July 2013 - 06:55 PM

Righto, the Ronbox is in, but I am not too sure if I can identify the FPS and MAP sensor

 

is the FPF top left of this?

 

FPS.JPG

 

and the MAP here:

 

MAP.JPG



#15 AlecPhilpott

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Posted 24 July 2013 - 07:27 PM

actually, this could be the MAP sensor?  the one above is the MAF methinks?

 

map2.JPG



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