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#1 Bowsa

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Posted 22 July 2013 - 08:22 PM

Ok I have a fiesta 1.4 tdci I know it is already high mpg but looking to boost it a little more.
Heard a remap will help improve this to almost 100 mpg

Can anyone comment on this who have had this done, are there any Cons to having this done?



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#2 FOCA

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Posted 22 July 2013 - 09:22 PM

What MPG are you getting at the moment and how much does the remap cost?



#3 Bowsa

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Posted 22 July 2013 - 09:54 PM

Well I've had the car 3 days lol, at the moment it's goin well but as for mpg I can't really say.

I have only briefly looked online, but found prices from kinda 150-300 so in the long run it would pay for itself.
But with most you get ~22bhp extra an so want to avoid any damage, excessive clutch wear etc.

But don't know if this would be the case, hense the question. Sure the extra
Bhp would be nice, but I'm not racing the thing just pootling about to work. It does have some very flat spots though, never driven a diesel an so 8years of petrol responsiveness it's a bit annoying.

#4 FOCA

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Posted 23 July 2013 - 12:42 AM

Well I've had the car 3 days lol, at the moment it's goin well but as for mpg I can't really say.

I have only briefly looked online, but found prices from kinda 150-300 so in the long run it would pay for itself.
But with most you get ~22bhp extra an so want to avoid any damage, excessive clutch wear etc.

But don't know if this would be the case, hense the question. Sure the extra
Bhp would be nice, but I'm not racing the thing just pootling about to work. It does have some very flat spots though, never driven a diesel an so 8years of petrol responsiveness it's a bit annoying.

Well, if it costs £20 a week to get you back-and-fourth to work, the £300 the remap costs would take you to work and back for 15 weeks / over 3 months, the remap may only increase the MPG a small amount, and may take a long, long  time before you even break even on it

 

If you take the extra power into account, though, (often remaps increase the power/ torque a lot, and the MPG just a little/ it depends) it could be well worthwhile, and can make a big difference to the way a car drives

 

In m y experience increasing the power noes not usually "kill" an engine, sometimes it is "kinder" to have more power, as you don't have to "push" it so hard, the DMF, (Dual Mass Flywheel) is often the "weak link", if the torque is increased a lot at low revs, this can be put under more stress (eapecially if towing/ hard use) - often the torque is restricted at low revs, and in the lower gears, (yours probably is not, though) some remaps lift these restrictions

 

You get used to driving a turpo-diesel, you learn not to rev it too much, change at the right time, keep it in the power, etc,  compared to most ordinary petrol cars, my car has an insane amount of torque, floor the throttle in any gear and its as if a big hand is pushing you forward, it does not even seem fast - everything else looks like its going backwards, few cars can match or beat the top gear (low speed) acceleration - the cherry on top is the exellent MPG  

 

I used to drive petrol cars, some quick ones v6s v8s etc, at the time i would never bother with diesels - now its the other way 'round (i keep an open mind - but  the only thing i miss is the sound & top end revs- i don't miss spending ££££s on petrol) 



#5 Bowsa

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Posted 23 July 2013 - 06:29 AM

Well I'm basically not looking to change the car for several years an will be looking at doing a lot of mileage so genuinely think it wouldn't take too long make the money back at all. But kinda looking to know if any one has had it done and where?
What they paid an how much it cost.

#6 Bowsa

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Posted 26 July 2013 - 08:45 AM

Guessing no one else has dont this then lol

#7 Dave-2912

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Posted 26 July 2013 - 11:06 AM

Well I'm basically not looking to change the car for several years an will be looking at doing a lot of mileage so genuinely think it wouldn't take too long make the money back at all. But kinda looking to know if any one has had it done and where?
What they paid an how much it cost.

 

Remember to factor in the potential extra insurance costs every year.

 

In my experience remaps are really only for power increases and in spite of the claims, don't actually help MPG all that much.

I admit however that I (nor anyone I know) have ever purchased a remap exclusively for MPG improvements, so the cars with remaps have always been driven in such a way that their extra power has been well used. Not great for witnessing MPG gains.



#8 Bowsa

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Posted 26 July 2013 - 05:29 PM

Remember to factor in the potential extra insurance costs every year.

 

In my experience remaps are really only for power increases and in spite of the claims, don't actually help MPG all that much.

I admit however that I (nor anyone I know) have ever purchased a remap exclusively for MPG improvements, so the cars with remaps have always been driven in such a way that their extra power has been well used. Not great for witnessing MPG gains.

 

if the car has less flat spots, don't get me wrong this wouldn't be a bad thing......

 

So you don't think you have ever noticed any improvements in MPG?

 

most of the ones I have seen advertised say they are undetectable?......plus I don't think an insurance company is going to go into checking for a remap on a 1.4tdci should the worst happen.



#9 The Jargen

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Posted 26 July 2013 - 07:34 PM

Well, if it costs £20 a week to get you back-and-fourth to work, the £300 the remap costs would take you to work and back for 15 weeks / over 3 months, the remap may only increase the MPG a small amount, and may take a long, long  time before you even break even on it

 

If you take the extra power into account, though, (often remaps increase the power/ torque a lot, and the MPG just a little/ it depends) it could be well worthwhile, and can make a big difference to the way a car drives

 

In m y experience increasing the power noes not usually "kill" an engine, sometimes it is "kinder" to have more power, as you don't have to "push" it so hard, the DMF, (Dual Mass Flywheel) is often the "weak link", if the torque is increased a lot at low revs, this can be put under more stress (eapecially if towing/ hard use) - often the torque is restricted at low revs, and in the lower gears, (yours probably is not, though) some remaps lift these restrictions

 

You get used to driving a turpo-diesel, you learn not to rev it too much, change at the right time, keep it in the power, etc,  compared to most ordinary petrol cars, my car has an insane amount of torque, floor the throttle in any gear and its as if a big hand is pushing you forward, it does not even seem fast - everything else looks like its going backwards, few cars can match or beat the top gear (low speed) acceleration - the cherry on top is the exellent MPG  

 

I used to drive petrol cars, some quick ones v6s v8s etc, at the time i would never bother with diesels - now its the other way 'round (i keep an open mind - but  the only thing i miss is the sound & top end revs- i don't miss spending ££££s on petrol) 

 

Can you explain that please?



#10 FOCA

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Posted 26 July 2013 - 11:30 PM

^^ No problem, i will try not to make it too technical ^^

 

On some Ford turbo- diesel cars the turque is restricted it the lower gears and a low revs- this is to protect the DMF (dual mass flywheel) and transmission, and to put the traction control/ ESP under less stress  

 

To give you an example, the Mondeo mk3 ST-TDCI 2.2 is restricted in 1st and 2nd gears, but  the Mondeo TDDI 2.0 is not restricted in 1st and 2nd

 

Both have microswitches on the clutch that tell the ECU when the clutch pedal is pressed and "back off" the torque when this happens, to give the engine a more progressive power delivery

 

The gearbox acts as a torque-multiplier, so although the torque is the same (if it is not restricted) in all the gears at the flywheel, there is a great deal more torque in 1st than in the higher gears, at the wheels and at the output of the gearbox -

 

it is the engines that produce the most torque that are nessesary to restrict in the lower gears (ie- the ST-TDCI 2.2 155PS) and the ones with less torque output that are not/ do not require to be restricted to protect the trans/ DMF for long term reliability (like the TDDI 115PS)

 

So it is unlikely that the Fiesta 1.4 tdci is restricted in the lower gears (because it is un-nessesary because does not produce a lot of torque )

 

As above some remaps lift/ delete the torque restrictions and in some cases have caused transmission failures, good tuners/ repappers are aware of this     



#11 Dave-2912

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Posted 29 July 2013 - 10:13 AM

if the car has less flat spots, don't get me wrong this wouldn't be a bad thing......

 

So you don't think you have ever noticed any improvements in MPG?

 

most of the ones I have seen advertised say they are undetectable?......plus I don't think an insurance company is going to go into checking for a remap on a 1.4tdci should the worst happen.

 

 

Personally, any mpg gains have not been noticeable on any car I have driven or has been driven by my friends.

 

You say that the insurance won't go looking but you would be surprised with the lengths they would go to to avoid paying out.

 

They might not have to go looking anyway. Say the car is damaged and you have a perminantly installed remap (or a removeable remap which you cannot reflash for some reason) the car will go away to be fixed, be plugged in to a diagnostics machine and the non-standard map is discovered. This is fed back to your insurer, they void your policy and you are liable for the cost to fix your own vehicle, the cost to fix the other persons vehicle and any other costs which the other partys insurer chooses to throw at you (hire cars, whiplash claims, etc).

 

This is worst case but is it really worth the risk?

 

Plus, if the crash is your fault, the innocent third party could lose his no claims and excess. So I have no time for those who chose to drive without the appropriate insurance.



#12 Bowsa

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Posted 01 August 2013 - 03:56 PM

yeah you make a fair point mate, insurance is something I will have to look into. Other things have come up now and so this for now is on the shelf anyway.



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