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TDCiST

Anyone Else Think That.......

8 posts in this topic

...... Their car is not performing as well in the heat??

I am now seriously considering a better inter cooler for my turbo!! Get the turbo temps down to as nearer ambient as I can!!

Hot humid horrible air!! Grrrrr

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Mines being a sod, but not just on the pulling power, my ABS keeps throwing crazy errors, and chucking the EML on stating that the VSS is stuffed... I cant stand this weather, and neither can my motor!

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so an intercooler will help with this problem?

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Mine seems fine, no hit in MPG either really.

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I've noticed a drop in pulling power but only when the A/C is on

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...... Their car is not performing as well in the heat??

I am now seriously considering a better inter cooler for my turbo!! Get the turbo temps down to as nearer ambient as I can!!

Hot humid horrible air!! Grrrrr

Its a "double whammy" because the intake air temp already starts off higher, then, the hoses and intercooler are hotter (due to heat soak), and the ambient air temprature being higher means there is less temp drop through the intercooler

EG - if temp at outlet of compressor = 90o/c if ambient is 10o/c = 80o/c initial temprature drop if ambient = 30o/c 50o/c initial temp drop (regardless of the size of the intercooler) with the higher intake air temp + the heat soak as well - the air temp is bound to be higher after the intercooler, losing power

If you fit a larger intercooler, the internal volume is liable to be higher/ bigger, this can increase lag and put a "hole" in the bottom end power, especially (or even) if the map is not optimised for this,

A larger intercooler has a larger mass of metal - this means it takes longer to heat up (making it suitable for petrol turbo applications that tend to have short bursts of boost) - once the larger intercooler is hot it takes longer to cool down, the higher PSIs and more sustained boost (diesel) means an intercooler with a lower thermal inertia (smaller mass of metal) tends to cool down faster after being subjected to high temps (high boost/ heat soak) - possibly better for diesels (there was a major article about it)

If the intercooler is so big it is "masked" behind the bumper etc, this can reduce its cooling capacity and increase its heat-soak tendency from the radiator/ underbonnet

Weight - a big intercooler could weigh 12+ kgs + its far forward of the front wheels and can effect handling

So the smaller, stock intercooler can often outperform larger, aftermarket intercoolers (especially on diesels) - it needs to be tested carefully in "real life" conditions to check this

Here are some ideas (that i use)-

Intercooler water spray - the latent heat of evaporation from the external waterspray cools the outside on the intercooler (apparently a fine mist works best as it helps the water evaporate & less water is used)

Heatwrapped decat & downpipe - the exhaust components inside the engine bay are heatwrapped - reduces the (huge) underbonnet heat radiation, reducing underbonnet temps, and the heat is kept inside the pipes, aiding scavenging/ turbo spool up

vented bonnet - a (hidden) slot is cut into the rubber in the back of the bonnet, when the car is moving, the cool air is forced in the intercooler/ radiator and out this slot, when the car is stationary, the hot air rises & escapes uot of the slot, drawing the cool air in the intercooler/ radiator, the (much )lower underbonnet temps reduce heat soak into the boost hoses as well

The engine cover and underbonnet insulation are removed in the summer too, aiding cooling, i plan to replace the rubber ("vent") and use bonnet lifters in the summer, and drop/ seal the bonnet in the winter

Total EGR delete - the removat of the (hot/ exhaust side) EGR components reduces underbonnet temps and radiation/ heat soak into the (close by) shorter boost hoses, as well as keeping the heat in the exhaust and turbo/ reducing unwanted power- sapping transfer of heat from exhaust to inlet

Insulated (90mm) CAIS/ airbox - the intake air comes in the wing - insulated / isolated from the bonnet - the intake up to/ and the airbox is (comprehensively) insulated

Even with this lot (and more- the electric waterpump that can run flat out at tickover, no AC to dump heat either etc) - the best performance times were done at about 10o/c (thermal management is still a "work in progress")

i recon a waterspray kit and bonnet lifters or a vented bonnet (makes a big difference) would sort yours ok

Lenny likes this

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wow thanks for the explanation. So why do i see alot of RS owners changing their intercoolers to airtech? Whats the benefit?

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wow thanks for the explanation. So why do i see alot of RS owners changing their intercoolers to airtech? Whats the benefit?

Its about matching the parts to the engine/ cars, the bigger intercooler that improves a 300+ petrol engine might be a mis-match on a 150Hp diesel engine - there is another thing - if the petrol turbo loses a little bit of bottom end power or have a bit more turbo lag (a big intercooler may increase turbo lag/ reduce bottom end power) it does not matter so much because the petrol engine revs higher/ makes its power higher up the rev-range - the bigger intercooler has increased cooling capacity to run more boost but with increased lag as well - so its a balance/ compromise but it should be matched with the engine - a bit of lag is not nessisarily a bad thing and reducing the bottom end power can help protect the trans and make the power more progressive (a rising power characteristrict) - the ideal intercooler for sprint racing, will be different from long circiut racing or high speed shootouts (its a compromise)

The petrol car actually produces less boost than the diesel, and in short bursts that the big intercooler helps to absorb (as long as it is kept cool) - they say it acts like a heatsink on a power amp - on a diesel the boost is higher and sustained for longer - so the intercooler gets hotter - the bigger intercooler has more metal in it (higher thermal inertia) so after it gets hot it takes longer to cool down

Because the diesel does not rev so high it cannot afford to loose any bottom end power/ torque -a bigger intercooler has a higher internal volume (it takes longer to "fill up"/ pressurise with air) so can increase lag/ reduce the bottom end power so a smaller intercoolr may work better than a larger one, especially on a diesel

There is no "right way" or "wrong way" but just sticking a bigger intercooler on is liable to increase lag and reduce bottom - end power (especially if coupled with a small turbo and without a custom remap set- up for the hardware)

There was a chap that timed (30-70mph etc) his Mondeo 2.2 stock / stock+ bluefin (stock intercooler) / stock + bluefin + big intercooler - the Bluefin with the stock intercooler had most of the quickest times, especially in the midrange

I run a drag racing intercooler (small but bigger than stock) - i might test it / compare it to the stock one - ideally i need to test a load of them to see the differences

Its too hot for me too ! :)

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