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Help Needed Please - No Hair Left!!


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#1 stels

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Posted 27 August 2013 - 05:52 PM

Please someone help this damsel in distress. Im having a nightmare of a time with my car. It started juddering and jolting on and off about a month ago. Twice now i have broken down. Ive had it to the ford garage who have advised me that there are no error codes so they cannot diagnose. Its a 55 ghia 1.6 which hasnt yet hit 30,000 miles! Coil pack and leads have been replaced, as has the accelerator. The latter because i got an error message advised there was a problem with it. so out it came........ im at a loss as what to do! I got 'recovered' from work on sat - only to find that when they took it off the truck it started up again!  Any suggestions people please?  :wacko:



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#2 mixmasterlooney

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Posted 27 August 2013 - 07:07 PM

Does the car crank after breakdown on restart? If possible try to make a video of the breakdown restarting process to help us with more info



#3 wase16ll

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Posted 27 August 2013 - 08:32 PM

what is it with garages that cant diagnose without fault codes????

diagnosis goes way, way beyond fault codes, all i can suggest is find a garage that can understand and test live data, or better still, equipped and capable with an oscilloscope...put money on using either or both, the fault will show up long before it breaks down.

 

from what you have said, its obviously a power supply problem, but that can either be fuel or ignition, so not much help...

but id be looking at crank sensor, fuel pump, engine control relay and all their relevent wiring and connections.

 

as matter of interest, that might help...was the accelerator changed because of this problem, or unrelated....reason i ask is instead of the accelerator being the problem itself, it may just be a clue that caused the accelerator to be logged, which in turn might help in pinning down the circuit that needs checking



#4 tony186

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Posted 02 September 2013 - 08:06 PM

I bought my Fiesta 1.3 Finesse (2002) in March from a dealer. Low mileage, one owner, FSH, complete with VOSA history and garaged every night of its life by its disabled owner prompted me to buy it for a good runabout. Everybody thought it was a new car, except for the plate giving the game away.

During my lifetime I have owned a Cortina, an XR2, and a Sierra which I had for 12 years. I only sold it because I decided it was time for a car with PAS. I never had a problem with any of them that couldn't be diagnosed quickly and resolved quickly without costing me an arm and a leg. 

My Fiesta came with one month's warranty. I hardly used it for the first two weeks and for the latter two weeks of the warranty my wife and I went to Spain to escape that nasty cold spell that seemed to be eternal.

Sod's law when we came back the month's warranty had expired when I began to use it again. That was when i first noticed it just cut out at a roundabout, causing the steering wheel to lock. I started it immediately and thought i must have failed to press the clutch down hard enough to engage the gear. A few days later when i was driving into work it cut out just as I was entering the car park gates. Again, it easily started when I turned the key.

Several days later at a set of traffic lights it went again. I took it to an auto-electrician and asked for a diagnostic check. Each time the car stalled all the usual warning lights came on but the engine management light never stayed on permanently and went off with the others. So I don't know why i was expecting the diagnostic to give a proper reading as there was no fault indicated.

I was right, the auto-electrician told me there was nothing coming up in the codes. So there was nothing he could do. he had driven it and nothing untoward happened. So he suggested I wait until the fault developed properly.

Several weeks later and the same problem reoccurring, I engaged the services of a home-start mechanic who was recommended by a friend.

The mechanic cleaned the throttle body reset the flap and did a diagnostic check with nothing showing up. The car drove okay.

A week later I had him back again; same problem yet again. This time he checked the crank-angle sensor and showed it to me. It looked like the end of a pencil that had been chewed up by a school kid.

'That's you problem' he explained and as luck had it he was carrying a spare. He had it fixed and up and running in a jiffy.

About 3 weeks later and low and behold the problem came back with avengence.

I have noticed that when the engine is running and the car is positioned on a slope that the engine gives up when it is left to idle for a few minutes. It did that yesterday.

Anyway I asked the home-start guy to call back, but unfortunately he was busy for a couple of weeks.

Last week I took it to a local garage which bares a huge Ford logo. To hell with it I thought, these lads have the proper Ford diagnostic kit and if they can't sort it nobody can. I told them all that i had done with it until bringing it to them.

It was in all day last Tuesday; throttle body was cleaned (again), as was the idle air valve and everything that should be checked was checked, and as their reputation is second to none I had no reason to doubt them. Nothing had showed up on their diagnostic check. But they did install a PCM upgrade which was available.

There were no faults during the test drive and I was advised to give it a run for a few days to  see if the problem was cured. It lasted two days and it conked out on me again. I arranged to take it in again this morning. As I reversed into one of their parking bays it cut out. I turned the ignition off and went into the garage reception delighted that the fault was apparent for them to see it for themselves. All day they have had it, trying to diagnose it yet again and late this afternoon they asked me if they could keep it until tomorrow. As no faults were showing up.

It looks to me as if this is a case of the computer not being able to locate the problem and I am going to be stuck with having just about every sensor under the bonnet changed and other parts such as the idle air valve, maybe even the ECU. The cost just couldn't be justified and maybe the only option will be to put up with the fault of it cutting out, usually at a most inopportune time - which can be dangerous, or taking it to an auction and unloading it onto some other poor sod. It will be a shame because the car's appearance and interior are in mint condition. And when it's operating properly I love driving it.

I have, by the way, been searching forums all over the place for this problem and there doesn't seem to be any shortage of folks with the same Fiesta, stalling, problems. The unfortunate thing is many of them get plenty of advice, but don't seem bothered to come back and tell those that have taken the trouble to give some advice how or if their problems were ever solved. That i find just as annoying as the mechanics who can't resolve a problem without a computerised code pointing them in the right direction.

Sorry about the rant, just had to get the situation off my chest.



#5 marklord83

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Posted 02 September 2013 - 08:58 PM

Does it do it more during or just after a corner seems silly question but a friend of mine had a similar problem with a different car? And does it do it more when its warm up or does it not matter?

#6 tony186

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Posted 02 September 2013 - 09:50 PM

Does it do it more during or just after a corner seems silly question but a friend of mine had a similar problem with a different car? And does it do it more when its warm up or does it not matter?

Hi Mark, not sure if you mean me. I feel a bit guilty tagging my problems onto this young ladies thread, but yes the probs occur when the engine has run for about 5/6 miles. Also it is peculiar that each time I drove the car into the car park at my place of work, it would cut out at exactly the same point. I have retired recently so won't be making that manoeuvre again. It happened quite frequently too at the same location. Bizarre!

#7 wase16ll

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Posted 02 September 2013 - 09:57 PM

couple of checks worth having on yours Tony

for starters, there might not be any codes showing or faults apparent with live data for a very simple reason: it has nothing to do with the engine managment system.

try changing the fuel filter and have the fuel pump output pressure checked, would also have the pump physicly checked for blocked filter and that it is secure in place and not floating about...have had this on another make, though im not sure its the same type of set up on fiesta in tank pump...also need to have the relays checked..just examples of faults that wont ever/or unlikely to show up on ecu

 

but i wonder if the clue is in the state of the old crank sensor...you mentioned it resembled the end of a chewed up pencil:

if it was me, id be questioning how that happened as the crank sensor tip shouldnt be contacting anything to get in that state...you also said it took 3 weeks before problem occured again...i would double check the new crank sensor, plus check the quality of the new sensor as there are a lot of cheap sensors floating about that dont last...faults with crank sensors often dont leave codes, but can show up on live data if the operator knows his stuff



#8 marklord83

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Posted 02 September 2013 - 10:01 PM

So it did round roundabout and same place at work is the same place at work during a corner or cud it be at any point on the road? Or have you noticed after any particular manoeuvre?

#9 tony186

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Posted 03 September 2013 - 07:48 AM

couple of checks worth having on yours Tony

for starters, there might not be any codes showing or faults apparent with live data for a very simple reason: it has nothing to do with the engine managment system.

try changing the fuel filter and have the fuel pump output pressure checked, would also have the pump physicly checked for blocked filter and that it is secure in place and not floating about...have had this on another make, though im not sure its the same type of set up on fiesta in tank pump...also need to have the relays checked..just examples of faults that wont ever/or unlikely to show up on ecu

 

but i wonder if the clue is in the state of the old crank sensor...you mentioned it resembled the end of a chewed up pencil:

if it was me, id be questioning how that happened as the crank sensor tip shouldnt be contacting anything to get in that state...you also said it took 3 weeks before problem occured again...i would double check the new crank sensor, plus check the quality of the new sensor as there are a lot of cheap sensors floating about that dont last...faults with crank sensors often dont leave codes, but can show up on live data if the operator knows his stuff

Tony, thanks for all that information, very useful ideas. I did forget to mention that it can appear to over rev when starting from cold and driving it along. As we all know, it's been quite warm these last couple of months or so. it's not as if it's as acceptable as in winter conditions. Like as if the choke is sticking too long, sometimes the RPM counter can race up and down, fluctuating between 900rpm and 1200rpm, when it should really be around about 750rpm when idling. When it does this, it usually finishes up dropping to 750rpm before dropping out completely.

Poor Stella who started this thread, being a lady, at least has some hair to pull out, I lost mine years ago, but if I had any left this Fiesta would definitely have me pulling mine out. 

Cheers mate.



#10 tony186

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Posted 03 September 2013 - 07:56 AM

So it did round roundabout and same place at work is the same place at work during a corner or cud it be at any point on the road? Or have you noticed after any particular manoeuvre?

Thanks Mark. I would drive down the side road and brake before driving into the yard through the entrance, and just as I was slowly turning it left, it conked out. I got to the stage where it was virtually groundhog day each time. It's just baffling. So far it's only cost me £160.00. Lord knows what the bill will be at the end of today. The garage have had it 2 full days. I shall report back later. Cheers.



#11 tony186

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Posted 03 September 2013 - 08:00 AM

Please someone help this damsel in distress. Im having a nightmare of a time with my car. It started juddering and jolting on and off about a month ago. Twice now i have broken down. Ive had it to the ford garage who have advised me that there are no error codes so they cannot diagnose. Its a 55 ghia 1.6 which hasnt yet hit 30,000 miles! Coil pack and leads have been replaced, as has the accelerator. The latter because i got an error message advised there was a problem with it. so out it came........ im at a loss as what to do! I got 'recovered' from work on sat - only to find that when they took it off the truck it started up again!  Any suggestions people please?  :wacko:

Hi Stella, Sorry to have tagged my problems onto your thread. I hope you don't mind. Like you, I am looking for an answer as to why no codes are showing up. Hope you have solved your problem. Please do let us know if you have. Any information would be most welcome.

Tony.



#12 jeebowhite

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Posted 03 September 2013 - 08:38 AM

90% of the time, no codes means no error that can be captured by a sensor, for example, a crack in an air intake, fuel intake or similar would mean additional air getting into the system, unless you have a sensor looking for air that shouldnt be there, no error will occur.



#13 tony186

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Posted 03 September 2013 - 08:48 AM

Thanks James. I have just called the garage and have mentioned most of the possibilities that are mentioned here. They have assured me that the hoses have been examined for any cracks which might cause air intake problems. it's going to be one of those suck it and see experiences. Going to cost me a packet though. :(  Cheers!



#14 jeebowhite

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Posted 03 September 2013 - 09:29 AM

Try a different garage Tony, you have nothing to lose by asking for a second, third or fourth opinion... could save you a lot of money in the long run, or just take it to a dealer, sometimes its the cheapest answer!



#15 tony186

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Posted 03 September 2013 - 10:07 AM

James, that's a likely possibility. The place where I have taken it is a long established family operation. It's run very professionally and it boasts 12 bays. Each time I have visited, there are no end of customers dropping off or collecting their cars. Their on- line reviews are constantly updated, and I haven't read one that put them in a bad light. But earlier on, looking at various Forums I have suspected myself that this is a vacuum problem. Probably a fine crack that can't be seen in one of the hoses. I shall patiently wait for a phone call later today. Thanks once again for your interest.

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