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stels

Help Needed Please - No Hair Left!!

70 posts in this topic

Well, I'm back and have just picked the car up and have given it a bit of a run and it's driving fine. Certainly not over revving and idles as it should at normal idle. And the big plus is it hasn't cut out on me. Cost me £195.72 in total on this occasion. It worked out at £130.00 for the idle air valve and gaskets x2. The rest was labour.

I was in London on Saturday. There was a display of concours motors along the Mall. Ferraris were two a penny alongside some really classic older cars. But I was terribly disappointed not to spot a gleaming Ford Fiesta Finesse amongst any of them. :D

Anyway chaps, thanks for all the advise. Still baffled as to why it never showed any fault readings. I have been given a copy of the graph readings, but in order to spot if the faults were showing up, the photo copy has to be in colour and mine was only printed in black ink. A line in red ink would show if the faults were obvious. Green lines show normal runnings.

It would be nice if the lady who started this thread came back and told us how she got on. Maybe she is still pulling her hair out. i hope not.

Thanks once again and if I encounter anymore problems I now know where to come. Thanks for your interest.

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Hi Tony..... And all who have replied to this thread.... I'm in the Dominican on hols at the moment so haven't had chance to go through them one by one.... Back next week tho so i'll be able to check all the posts out then...so in the meantime....back to the bar for piña colada's! ;)

wase16ll likes this

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Hi Tony..... And all who have replied to this thread.... I'm in the Dominican on hols at the moment so haven't had chance to go through them one by one.... Back next week tho so i'll be able to check all the posts out then...so in the meantime....back to the bar for piña colada's! ;)

Hi Stella, sorry to have disturbed your holiday. You just keep downing the pina coladas. And enjoy the rest of your holiday.

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"Once more unto the breach dear friends." I think those words weren't only written for Henry V, the Bard could have had future Ford Fiesta owners with my problem in mind.

A few hours after I posted my words of joy, i took it for a 15 mile run and everything was fine. I parked it in a supermarket car park and returned to it half an hour later. It wouldn't even start without me giving it loads of gas. When it did it conked out everytime that I took my foot off the pedal.

I took it back immediately and it was hooked up to the diagnostics once again, but nothing showed up. It was acting up for the mechanics too.

So I am no further forward. They are keeping it tonight and intend to get Ford on the case properly tomorrow. I was told that they are thinking maybe wiring loom problems.

When this is finally sorted, the manager told me 'they won't be beat,' I might have been better sussing out a reconditioned engine. A 1.25 instead of the dreadful 1.3 Duratec.

But the manager didn't agree. On the contrary, he told me, he doesn't feel that it is solveable by just plonking in another engine. Also he told me that the Duratec is okay.

It's certainly got the grease monkeys baffled, and me.

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Tony did you say the accelerator was changed at some point?

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No Mark. I have no idea if it has ever been changed. Incidentally, the Duratec 8 valve isn't fly by wire. It's just the old style accelerator, that's according to my Haynes.

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one of the hardest things to explain to owners, is sometimes diagnostics can be seriously tricky..when it comes to modern systems, nothing is black and white and the possible causes are endless.

its hard enough tracing a problem like this with the car in front of you, impossible over the www...so not knocking the garage or their methods/process in any way whatsoever.

but if nothing still being logged, then im convinced the problem lies outside of the ecu control.

they could be right with the loom. but even then i would normally expect something to flag up on dianostics as that loom is made up of pos/neg and signal wires...if one is failing then ecu will at some point be sending/receiving wrong information...which in turn will affect something else within the system etc..this is where you often get a number of codes relating to 2 or 3 sensors for eg, but the actual problem only lies with 1 of them, or the wiring.

thats theory, but as said nothing is black and white.

but there is one area that can cause your symptoms, will not log a fault, but can possibly show up very briefly on live data if you know what your looking for.

fuel pressure

it has to be worth asking if this has been ok'd when problem wasnt occuring and if its been rechecked when problem is present.

surging idle, cutting out, not starting without lots of gas/pedal work are all symptoms of fuel pressure.

one of the most overlooked areas of diagnostics on irregular faults, is not going back to the beginning when problem is actually happening.

hope they get to the bottom of this sooner or later, they have my sympathies as i know some can be real headbangers, but they sound like my kind of garage with not willing to let something beat them :)

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The injectors have a bad habit of getting clogged or partially clogged on the 8v engines. Especially when they get to 10 years old. Its a right mare to identify the issue as I have found in the past if you dont check the injectors out early on.

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The injectors have a bad habit of getting clogged or partially clogged on the 8v engines. Especially when they get to 10 years old. Its a right mare to identify the issue as I have found in the past if you dont check the injectors out early on . thanks for your interest. Do you think red x would clear the injectors? Just a thought. Cheers.

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one of the hardest things to explain to owners, is sometimes diagnostics can be seriously tricky..when it comes to modern systems, nothing is black and white and the possible causes are endless.

its hard enough tracing a problem like this with the car in front of you, impossible over the www...so not knocking the garage or their methods/process in any way whatsoever.

but if nothing still being logged, then im convinced the problem lies outside of the ecu control.

they could be right with the loom. but even then i would normally expect something to flag up on dianostics as that loom is made up of pos/neg and signal wires...if one is failing then ecu will at some point be sending/receiving wrong information...which in turn will affect something else within the system etc..this is where you often get a number of codes relating to 2 or 3 sensors for eg, but the actual problem only lies with 1 of them, or the wiring.

thats theory, but as said nothing is black and white.

but there is one area that can cause your symptoms, will not log a fault, but can possibly show up very briefly on live data if you know what your looking for.

fuel pressure

it has to be worth asking if this has been ok'd when problem wasnt occuring and if its been rechecked when problem is present.

surging idle, cutting out, not starting without lots of gas/pedal work are all symptoms of fuel pressure.

one of the most overlooked areas of diagnostics on irregular faults, is not going back to the beginning when problem is actually happening.

hope they get to the bottom of this sooner or later, they have my sympathies as i know some can be real headbangers, but they sound like my kind of garage with not willing to let something beat them :)

I notice you have a Granada. The manager who dealt with me yesterday owns a Ford Cortina L reg (1973). He had it parked in one of the bays. Obviously very proud of it. He told me that the wiring looms on his were perfect also the car is on very low mileage for the year. I used to drive them in my working days. Well retired now. ;)

They know about the fuel pressure problems you mention and have tested it, but as you say it might need a more in depth probing.

I'm expecting to hear from them this evening. Can't bear the suspense. :D

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They have just telephoned me to say that they cannot detect the fault. It hasn't been acting up since i took it back other than when they first tried testing it with the diagnosis. It gave no readings. I think they have just decided it's a pup and not worth their man hours on. They are not going to charge me. I've been told that they have had Ford advising them, but too many things for me to remember at the moment. I have asked for a list of what they have done, so that at least I know what to put on here for you guys.

I mentioned examining the dreaded loom, but that would appear to be for me a financial nightmare. I asked about the injectors and was told they are fine. I might try filling the tank tomorrow when i collect it and try putting some fuel injector cleaner in it. other than that I haven't a clue what to do with it.

I wouldn't try selling it as i wouldn't wish it on anybody, and I certainly wouldn't want the comeback. Part exchanging it would have its problems as would taking it to an auction. It's nowhere near being a scrap vehicle, nowhere.

I'm as sick as a parrot i can tell you.

Thanks for all your help and advice.

I shall tell you tomorrow what they put on the list.

Cheers for now!

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Just a thought: being as no fault codes are showing up, when there clearly is a problem, would it be useful to remove the ECU and have it tested? I ask because if it is a faulty ECU and it is repaired then surely the code for the problem will show up. The garage have explained that if the ECU was itself faulty the fault would be displayed on the dash. But I am reading on other forums that this is not always correct.

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it is possible for an ecu to be faulty without flagging any codes but it is rare.

tink the garage has been very fair with all the hours spent and not charging, problems like this can be very frustrating.

i would be wary of dismissing anything that has been tested and cleared as ok for reasons ive mentioned before..but knowing exactly whats been done would be useful.

i still think the problem could lie outside of ecu control,but am i right in understanding that after the ICV was changed, the situation improved for longer than normal but when the problem reoccured it actually ended up worse?

im just wondering if there is a clue there somewhere.

would be interested in any info you can glean from the garage in whats been done

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As you know, I had the IAV replaced on Monday and i collected it on Tuesday. By the afternoon it was back in the workshop, because following a relatively brief and trouble free drive it acted up again in a supermarket car park. It's been off the road until I collected it today. The manager who spoke to me yesterday told me that they had done all they could and could do no more. I was promised a list of the things carried out since I took it back this final time.

Well i collected it this morning. Not a hitch so far.

I have driven it 60 miles motorway and town. No cutting out.

I'm thinking the IAV has worked. can't understand why it behaved so badly on Tuesday, unless the mechanic did something to it since then that has settled it. He went abroad on holiday today so isn't available. Neither is the manager, he's off until Monday.

Somebody I know, an auto electrican, suggested that the IAV might have settled down.

I did fill it with Shell this morning and a tub of STP fuel injector cleaner before I took it on its run. But it would have been too early for the STP to have worked.

So for now, i am keeping my fingers crossed. Cheers all!

FOCA likes this

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Soooo - am back from my hols, cars running well, no juddering for over a week or so now...... until this morning!

To cut a long story short, ive had AA out and they have told me that the cars showing the following errors ( errors that my garage said werent there?) P0102, P2300, P2303. Said because the spark plugs are directly under the skuttle tray and getting wet. Suggest i change them - (though i cant see how this is going to stop them getting a soaking) I really need to rely on my little car getting me the 15 miles to work every morning so its worth a try. Also said replace the coil pack......... now that got me wondering.... i got this replaced around 6 months ago, maybe faulty? Not sure if i can sort the P0102 though as he was a little vague on this one. Any ideas guys? I have a slight suspicion that this may not be the end of all my issues... hopefully im wrong. Praying to god that the hair starts growing back and my baby sees me through the winter at least!. Hope everyone elses probs have been sorted??

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all those codes are pointing to low input...ie: low voltage

0102 is mass air flow sensor, 2300 & 2303 are primary circuit on the coil packs.

did the AA physicly check the spark plugs or was this just an assumption based on the codes and this being a fairly common problem.

if the plug/chambers are getting wet then yes it could possibly throw similar codes up, there is a cure for this with relation to the w/washer jets/pipes.

i would be suprised if this wasnt picked up when previous work was carried out

otherwise

your looking for a power failure, the codes arent really condemning the coil packs/mass sensor, just indicating their supply voltage is failing

first step would be a close inspection of the wires/connectors for damage/corrosion on the coil pack and mass air..this too is fairly common.

bad engine earth connections is another possibility

failing that, this could also point to the crank sensor failing, the crank sensor is primarily for signalling to the ecu that the engine is either turning over/running which then triggers all other sensors to work...in laymans terms.

its common for this sensor to start breaking down and yet not throw a relevent code..imagine the engine is running all hunky dory, then suddenly the crank sensor has a blip, at that precise moment the ecu stops sending a signal to both coil/mass sensor, that causes your juddering for split second, as power was not sent to coils..

.what often happens is the crank sensor gets worse as engine gets warmer, causing the juddering to get worse to the point the engine stops..it isnt unusual for engine to restart and run fine after a period of being left to cool down, then problems start again when temp rises.

if this is whats happening, then id fully expect the type of codes you have being flagged up...ecu isnt expecting sudden loss of supply to the sensors when its still receiving feedback from elsewhere...in other words, ecu isnt being told to shut down as in turning key off, as its receiving signals telling it the engine is still running, so flags up codes to say their is a fault in the supply line to coils etc..all because the crank sensor is tripping up.

thats as simplified as i can make it, but in a nutshell, if no fault is found, then changing the crank sensor [make sure its a quality replacement) is a reasonably cheap gamble worth taking.

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I had an issue with a 1.25 fiesta where when warm the revs where erratic and eventually cut out, no fault codes where present and no lights on the dash. I work at ford and looked through the TSB's (technical service bulletin's) on the vehicle and found one matching my symptoms it was telling my to replace a section on wiring loom and throttle position sensor the parts retail about £300 (the loom taking up £230 of this and the sensor and relevant seals making up the other £70) and takes just under 1 hour to do. This cured the idle problem on this particular vehicle however this vehicle was one of the last off the production line (2008) before the new shape came out but it's work looking into.

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It's more than a month now since I asked for advice, the fiesta is running fine. Not a single hiccup since my last post. Obviously it was a faulty idle air valve. Replacing it did the trick. Thanks to all we replied. Tony.

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Hi Tony

Apologies for resurrecting such an old thread but I'm having almost exactly the same problems with my 2002 Mk6 Fiesta Finesse.

I suspected it may be the Idle Air Control Valve and mentioned this to my mechanic, but he says that this model doesn't have an IAC valve, rather the idle speed is controlled by the ECU.

Could you please tell me if yours is the Mk6 Fiesta like mine? If it is, surely it will also have the aforementioned valve. Also, have any of the problems reoccured since?

Please see a picture below.

Thanks in advance for your reply.

Fiesta.jpg

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Unfortunately tony hasn't been back to the forum since this reply.

I thought this still had the icv but easiest way to tell, is to look at the pipe leaving the air filter and going to the engine, If there is an electrical connector just on this pipe after the filter you may well have the ECU control

Sent from my MY SAGA C2 using Ford OC mobile app

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