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Help Needed Please - No Hair Left!!


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#46 jeebowhite

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Posted 06 September 2013 - 12:19 PM

the old days of motoring! leverage, and carburetor! the days when you could really do some tuning!



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#47 marklord83

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Posted 06 September 2013 - 01:58 PM

Used to be awesome lol rubbish now I still prefer oldcars easy to maintain just as they get oolder cost more to maintain

#48 tony186

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Posted 06 September 2013 - 09:37 PM

Well here I am again gents, 200 miles away from home, and I don't know if my auto problem is any further forward. I telephoned them this afternoon and asked how the tests on the data logger had worked out, as I had left it with them on Wednesday because it had broken down 4 times that day so the DL must have picked up the faults. Sorry I was told, the lads have had your car out on the road testing it and no probs found, in fact he told me he had taken it home yesterday evening to test it after it had been left overnight. Still nor problems. I then asked what were the results of the DL which they must have checked. Nothing showed up I was assured, but he asked me to leave it with them and they would take it on the road again.
I received a further call at 5pm this afternoon, surprise, surprise, one of the mechanics had it on the road and it broke down 3 times.
But the DL showed no faults. They had contacted Ford with the problem. They were told to check the fuel pressure, which was done with no problems reported there. The only other possibility I was informed that Ford had informed them of was that that the idle air valve was the only other possibility. They reckon that could fail and the DL wouldn't necessarily pick that up. Am I getting the Michael taking out of me here? I ask you. I have been warned that this might not cure it but it is my best hope.
So on Monday the I A V will be replaced.If that doesn't do the trick I will have to take it to Ford proper.

#49 wase16ll

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Posted 06 September 2013 - 10:02 PM

have not come across an idle valve that doesnt log something on data, but that doesnt mean it cant happen.
can see the logic in changing the IAC, but its a gamble as there's no proof its failing, there are rare times that an educated guess is all you can go with, but im just wondering if people are relying too heavily on computer diagnostics and forgetting that problems can fall outside of computer controls.

my initial thoughts
fuel pressure was checked and passed...but it was checked and passed when its not cutting out.

i wonder if the pump is playing up...if it was me, my next step would be to rig up a pressure guage so that it can be monitored from drivers seat and drive till it dies again..

just my opinion, not knocking the process garage is following.

#50 tony186

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Posted 06 September 2013 - 11:02 PM

Tony, thanks for replying this late. I guess I will have to trust that the idle air valve when replaced cures it. I'm not one for tucking in under the bonnet, I leave that to those with trained skills, not that I'm knocking those that have a go who like to try a bit of DIY. Just wish I had the confidence. I used to muck about with my Morris minors and my Austin Cambridge in my younger days. Lol!

#51 tony186

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Posted 10 September 2013 - 10:37 AM

Well, I'm back and have just picked the car up and have given it a bit of a run and it's driving fine. Certainly not over revving and idles as it should at normal idle. And the big plus is it hasn't cut out on me. Cost me £195.72 in total on this occasion. It worked out at  £130.00 for the idle air valve and gaskets x2. The rest was labour.

I was in London on Saturday. There was a display of concours motors along the Mall. Ferraris were two a penny alongside some really classic older cars. But I was terribly disappointed not to spot a gleaming Ford Fiesta Finesse amongst any of them. :D

Anyway chaps, thanks for all the advise. Still baffled as to why it never showed any fault readings. I have been given a copy of the graph readings, but in order to spot if the faults were showing up, the photo copy has to be in colour and mine was only printed in black ink. A line in red ink would show if the faults were obvious. Green lines show normal runnings.

It would be nice if the lady who started this thread came back and told us how she got on. Maybe she is still pulling her hair out. i hope not.

Thanks once again and if I encounter anymore problems I now know where to come. Thanks for your interest.



#52 stels

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Posted 10 September 2013 - 04:05 PM

Hi Tony..... And all who have replied to this thread.... I'm in the Dominican on hols at the moment so haven't had chance to go through them one by one.... Back next week tho so i'll be able to check all the posts out then...so in the meantime....back to the bar for piña colada's! ;)

#53 tony186

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Posted 10 September 2013 - 05:15 PM

Hi Tony..... And all who have replied to this thread.... I'm in the Dominican on hols at the moment so haven't had chance to go through them one by one.... Back next week tho so i'll be able to check all the posts out then...so in the meantime....back to the bar for piña colada's! ;)

Hi Stella, sorry to have disturbed your holiday. You just keep downing the pina coladas. And enjoy the rest of your holiday.



#54 tony186

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Posted 10 September 2013 - 05:30 PM

"Once more unto the breach dear friends." I think those words weren't only written for Henry V, the Bard could have had future Ford Fiesta owners with my problem in mind.

A few hours after I posted my words of joy, i took it for a 15 mile run and everything was fine. I parked it in a supermarket car park and returned to it half an hour later. It wouldn't even start without me giving it loads of gas. When it did it conked out everytime that I took my foot off the pedal.

I took it back immediately and it was hooked up to the diagnostics once again, but nothing showed up. It was acting up for the mechanics too.

So I am no further forward. They are keeping it tonight and intend to get Ford on the case properly tomorrow. I was told that they are thinking maybe wiring loom problems.

When this is finally sorted, the manager told me 'they won't be beat,' I might have been better sussing out a reconditioned engine. A 1.25 instead of the dreadful 1.3 Duratec.

But the manager didn't agree. On the contrary, he told me, he doesn't feel that it is solveable by just plonking in another engine. Also he told me that the Duratec is okay.

It's certainly got the grease monkeys baffled, and me.



#55 marklord83

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Posted 10 September 2013 - 08:56 PM

Tony did you say the accelerator was changed at some point?

#56 tony186

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Posted 10 September 2013 - 09:44 PM

No Mark. I have no idea if it has ever been changed. Incidentally, the Duratec 8 valve isn't fly by wire. It's just the old style accelerator, that's according to my Haynes.

#57 wase16ll

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Posted 11 September 2013 - 01:16 AM

one of the hardest things to explain to owners, is sometimes diagnostics can be seriously tricky..when it comes to modern systems, nothing is black and white and the possible causes are endless.
its hard enough tracing a problem like this with the car in front of you, impossible over the www...so not knocking the garage or their methods/process in any way whatsoever.

but if nothing still being logged, then im convinced the problem lies outside of the ecu control.
they could be right with the loom. but even then i would normally expect something to flag up on dianostics as that loom is made up of pos/neg and signal wires...if one is failing then ecu will at some point be sending/receiving wrong information...which in turn will affect something else within the system etc..this is where you often get a number of codes relating to 2 or 3 sensors for eg, but the actual problem only lies with 1 of them, or the wiring.

thats theory, but as said nothing is black and white.
but there is one area that can cause your symptoms, will not log a fault, but can possibly show up very briefly on live data if you know what your looking for.
fuel pressure
it has to be worth asking if this has been ok'd when problem wasnt occuring and if its been rechecked when problem is present.
surging idle, cutting out, not starting without lots of gas/pedal work are all symptoms of fuel pressure.

one of the most overlooked areas of diagnostics on irregular faults, is not going back to the beginning when problem is actually happening.

hope they get to the bottom of this sooner or later, they have my sympathies as i know some can be real headbangers, but they sound like my kind of garage with not willing to let something beat them :)

#58 btmaldon

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Posted 11 September 2013 - 01:47 PM

The injectors have a bad habit of getting clogged or partially clogged on the 8v engines. Especially when they get to 10 years old. Its a right mare to identify the issue as I have found in the past if you dont check the injectors out early on.

#59 tony186

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Posted 11 September 2013 - 03:22 PM

The injectors have a bad habit of getting clogged or partially clogged on the 8v engines. Especially when they get to 10 years old. Its a right mare to identify the issue as I have found in the past if you dont check the injectors out early on .    thanks for your interest. Do you think red x would clear the injectors? Just a thought. Cheers.



#60 tony186

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Posted 11 September 2013 - 03:30 PM

one of the hardest things to explain to owners, is sometimes diagnostics can be seriously tricky..when it comes to modern systems, nothing is black and white and the possible causes are endless.
its hard enough tracing a problem like this with the car in front of you, impossible over the www...so not knocking the garage or their methods/process in any way whatsoever.

but if nothing still being logged, then im convinced the problem lies outside of the ecu control.
they could be right with the loom. but even then i would normally expect something to flag up on dianostics as that loom is made up of pos/neg and signal wires...if one is failing then ecu will at some point be sending/receiving wrong information...which in turn will affect something else within the system etc..this is where you often get a number of codes relating to 2 or 3 sensors for eg, but the actual problem only lies with 1 of them, or the wiring.

thats theory, but as said nothing is black and white.
but there is one area that can cause your symptoms, will not log a fault, but can possibly show up very briefly on live data if you know what your looking for.
fuel pressure
it has to be worth asking if this has been ok'd when problem wasnt occuring and if its been rechecked when problem is present.
surging idle, cutting out, not starting without lots of gas/pedal work are all symptoms of fuel pressure.

one of the most overlooked areas of diagnostics on irregular faults, is not going back to the beginning when problem is actually happening.

hope they get to the bottom of this sooner or later, they have my sympathies as i know some can be real headbangers, but they sound like my kind of garage with not willing to let something beat them :)

I notice you have a Granada. The manager who dealt with me yesterday owns a Ford Cortina L reg (1973). He had it parked in one of the bays. Obviously very proud of it. He told me that the wiring looms on his were perfect also the car is on very low mileage for the year. I used to drive them in my working days. Well retired now. ;)

They know about the fuel pressure problems you mention and have tested it, but as you say it might need a more in depth probing.

I'm expecting to hear from them this evening. Can't bear the suspense. :D



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