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Fitting A Carb Instead Of Fuel Injection

upgrade from 1.1 to 1.3

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#1 Gmus

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Posted 04 September 2013 - 06:57 PM

Hi, I am a new member and old car enthusiast. I am a competant mechanic/engineer and I have had a lot of experience with building engines, restoring cars & motorcycles and I am not afraid of most jobs however, this time, I have gotten myself into deep water and maybe someone can help. I have an old 1992 Ford Fiesta L with a 1.1 HCS engine (webber twin choke carburettor) which was given to me by a Spanish guy (I live in the north of Spain). Funnily enough the car originally came from the UK and is RHD but has survived well thanks to being stored in a garage for the last 15 years. I love the car as it has very little electronic sophistication and very few mod cons to go wrong. I open the bonnet and I can see the ground and space around the engine; fantastic! However the engine burns oil and is only just on the right side of being underpowered. There are almost no Ford Fiestas of this kind in scrap yards around here but I did find a few in one particular yard where I saw a 1994 Fiesta with an HCS 1.3 cfi engine with only 18,000 kms on the clock. I could not pass over this golden opportunity to upgrade my humble 1.1 to a 1.3, however, the wiring, sensors and engine management system, together with the associated wiring is so overwhelming that it is going to be a challenge to carry out the changeover. Plus the fact that I hate any electronic control devices and would prefer, any day, a simple carburettor which I can tune if necessary. Here is the question: Can I use the carburettor, inlet and exhaust manifolds from the 1.1 engine (keeping the 1.1 ESC control module) and fit it to the 1.3 engine? I know would have to fit an electric fuel pump as the 1.3 Cfi engine has a high pressure pump in the tank. I also know that the spec of the 1.3 caburettor is slightly different to the 1.1 although both are Weber TLDM types (they have different venturi diameter and some different jetting) but I am wondering if it would work (?)  I may not have optimum performance but if it works it saves me a whole heap of very complicated work. Has anyone done this before and do you have any (polite) advice?. The obvious solution is to fit a 1.3 Webber carburettor (if only I could find one) but will the 1.1 carburettor work on the 1.3 engine ?. Thanks for your help, George 



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#2 wase16ll

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Posted 04 September 2013 - 07:23 PM

off the top of my head i have no idea, but if the 1.3 is just a bored out 1.1, then its a straightforward swap that will be underpowered...[i take it the injection is single point rather than multipoint}

should imagine the power loss will be top end rather than low end.

dont forget that if you do manage to find the bigger carb set up, then you also need to make sure manifolds and exhaust are same or larger.

#3 Gmus

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Posted 04 September 2013 - 09:23 PM

Thank you for the prompt reply Tony. Yes, the 1.3 Cfi is single point injection. I was about to look up power output and fuel consuption figures to see if it is worth while staying with the fuel injection but, the more I think about it, the more I hate the idea of having a computer controlled engine management system as It makes you completely dependent on diagnostic equipment if anything goes wrong. I am going to try out the concept of fitting the 1.3 engine to my 1.1L chassis keeping the 1.1 carb, controls & manifolds and see how it works out. My needs now are for simplicity plus cheap & easy maitenance. Perhaps I am sacrificing fuel efficiency and power, but this is more than compensated by the savings in repairing and maintaining the car myself. If anyone else has any other comments the 1.1/1.3 carburation compatability, I will be only too glad to hear them. Thanks again.



#4 wase16ll

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Posted 04 September 2013 - 10:29 PM

to be honest, you still have most of the managment system on the carb engine as you do on injected..
would be a lot of work to convert to inj but if you have the doner then its possible.

plus side of injection is power and economy, plus the system is pretty reliable though can be pricey when it goes wrong...mind you, if carb plays up, you may find it more difficult obtaining spares for it

#5 Magenta

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Posted 05 September 2013 - 09:23 AM

I'm afraid I can't help on the detail technical issues you have raised, George but I just had to comment on the interesting questions you have raised and sympathise with your belief in older/simpler cars being great to work on as far as I am concerned too.  Being of a 'certain age' I can do most jobs on a carb engine but wouldn't know where to start with fuel injection and computer controlled machinery.  Your remark about 'space around the engine and 'being able to see the ground struck a chord with me.  A good case for running an old classic I think !



#6 Gmus

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Posted 05 September 2013 - 01:24 PM

Thank you for your comments. On the subject of computer vs screwdriver, I wanted to point out that the cars nowdays are no longer designed for DIY maintenance nor are they designed for mechanics. A modern day mechanic no longer needs to use intuition to determine an engine fault because the computer will probably tell him what went wrong (probably). If you don't have access to diagnostic equipment then it is nearly impossible to determine the cause of an engine management related fault. But then I have a different perspective on the matter as I want to manage the engine myself (not some computer). The only bit of electronics on my Mk3 Fiesta is the Distributorless Ignition system which basically (only) controls the ignition timing. I can see the sense in it, after decades of stroboscopes and setting points gap, and but I would still like to have a spare ESC module sitting in my glove box, just in case. It is just about possible to figure out a problem even though there are 4 parameters being monitored. With an engine management system, the number of measured and controled parameters is more like a dozen. A dozen things that could go wrong and there is no way of knowing which, unless you take the car to a garage. I know it is generally reliable and more efficient, but it's not for me. I have decided to replace my 1.1 engine with the 1.3 Cfi unit, but remove the single point injection system and all the miriad of cables and sensors. I hope it will work with the original carb; I'll let you know when it is done but any last minute advice is still welcome.



#7 Magenta

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Posted 06 September 2013 - 09:24 AM

I'm glad you said 'probably' tell the technician what was wrong because in my experience even franchise/dealer trained personel make stabs in the dark and seem to use a trial and error system i.e just replace everything until the problem goes away !



#8 FOCA

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Posted 06 September 2013 - 10:13 PM

Once apon a time you could run an engine with points, a distributor a coil, (with HT leads and plugs)  and a battery, and wait for it - 2 wires  



#9 Lenny

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Posted 07 September 2013 - 08:12 AM

Once apon a time you could run an engine with points, a distributor a coil, (with HT leads and plugs)  and a battery, and wait for it - 2 wires  

Sorry for going slightly off topic here,
But I can't wait to go back to a car with no can-bus, no error lights to display, and no esp,

#10 Mordey

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Posted 07 September 2013 - 01:13 PM

Once apon a time you could run an engine with points, a distributor a coil, (with HT leads and plugs)  and a battery, and wait for it - 2 wires  

I remember those days



#11 Gmus

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Posted 07 September 2013 - 03:46 PM

There is a dilema here: These fly-by-wire cars we have nowdays have more power and are more fuel efficient. They cause less polution and, of course, all this is important. I certainly appreciate getting to my destination faster, with more comfort and the less money I waste on fuel the better. However, I don't enjoy driving like I used to. My favorite car, the one I enjoyed the most, was a 1957 Wolseley 1500 which I drove for 15 years. It was uncomfortable, noisy and although it was 'reasonably' powerful it certainly was not fuel efficient. Yet it was great fun and I am now dreaming of owning even older cars to bring back some of the driving pleasure I used to have. I don't think I am being overly nostalgic but I am just making the point that we are missing something, now that cars have become so impersonal. Doing all your own maintenance, and so on, gave you a bond with the car which is now less easy to find. This humble Ford Fiesta of mine has reminded me of some of those earlier times (although I must say that I appreciate the extra comfort!). It is a bit like a modern day Morris Minor (I hope no-one is offended!) and although the car was given to me (I would not have thought to buy one) it has grown on me very quickly and I love it. It has a touch of what I used to have with thoses older cars I once owned and I can look forward to working on it and improving it. Great fun.  I can't wait to get that new engine in and see if it works...



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