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#1 Lenny

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Posted 08 September 2013 - 02:13 PM

Hi all,
As the tittle says,
I'm looking for some sound advise, not for the focus but for a future motor,

I've got a budget of 350-400 pounds at the most but if I can get it all for under 400 even better.

Require:
Front Door 6.5" Component
Rear shelf 6" or 6.5"
And an amp to wire all speakers up to,

The front door and rear shelf speakers must be 6.5'' or less and not 6x9 in the rear,
The car is a coupè and the metal chassis surrounds the 6.5" hole, so nothing bigger will fit.

DSC05660.jpg

IMG_20130908_153423_zpsfd4991e2.jpg

I plan to run all new audio cables from the stereo to each speaker,
But I've only ever wired a 15" sub to an amp before,
Ive saw some of you give great knowledge in this field before and I'd like to hear from you on this,
Aswell as guide me a bit when it comes to installing around January,

I'll stick with the standard head unit until perhaps march/April I'll be looking for a double din unit with reverse camera and possible a Bluetooth that works as good as a parrot system.

Any help please
Thanks.

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#2 FOCA

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Posted 09 September 2013 - 04:34 AM

Are you looking to keep the weight down, or not really bothered about weight and sound is more important?

 

Do you like to listen to music loud and do you need a lot of bass?  



#3 Lenny

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Posted 09 September 2013 - 08:43 AM

Are you looking to keep the weight down, or not really bothered about weight and sound is more important?
 
Do you like to listen to music loud and do you need a lot of bass?  

Thanks Foca,
Well weight would be important because its an N/A petrol; torque will be low

In terms of base, I don't like it to drown out the rest of the music,
I don't roll like fiddy cent or snoop dog :)

I like dance music and fast beat sky channel 383 most of the time will give you an idea.
Looking for something with a bit of base but can sound out U2 and dire straits just as good.

I think a speaker system is like a carton of milk,
It goes off over time,
Music and speakers have developed a lot since say 1995 when the car was first designed, so I'm guessing they designed the sound system for the 95 model and rolled with it all the way up to 2000, I've been told the stock speakers are paper cone with plastic bubble centre tweeter.

The main use the car is for a sunday drive in the country, music, exhaust and a lot of bends in the road :)

So I'm looking for something that can give a nice sound the same level as around level 20 on the focus dial
But not empare on handing on weight,

In terms of the amp it could be mounted centre of the rear seat in the boot,
Which would be above the rear axle.

Thanks mate i really appreciate your advise.

Here is a picture of the stock factory fitted front speaker
I've been told; the stock front speaker is 56mm deep.
Apparently there is enough room for a 25mm mdf spacer to be added on the inside, and the door card will still fit back on.
One fella says the speakers he put in were about 70mm deep and there was still at least 25mm from the back of the speaker to the window when its down (that was with the 25mm spacer).

IMG_20130909_094341_zps0c8f16e9.jpg

I believe a similar type was fitted in the rear,
Although they are not standard in this image below;
It will give you an idea of the setup for install.

100_1516.jpg

P.S the centre cut out was designed for an optional extra factory fitted 6x9 sub
1 single 6x9 that didn't have a tweeter just done bass, very rare and didn't take off well so must not have been great.

IMG_20130909_100021_zps49cc52ac.jpg

#4 FOCA

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Posted 10 September 2013 - 02:35 AM

Ok - its always difficult balancing sound and weight - shure, you can spend a lot of money(and time/ effort) putting a lot of audiio hardware in the car, but its going to add a lot of extra weight to the car  

 

Its easy to add a powerful sub that will add a lot of loud bass that sounds good for dance music but would "murder" U2 and Dire Straights - the difficulty is getting the sub to integrate (blend) nicely with the other speakers, with a smooth transition, and no phase/ resonance / x-over problems - you might have to have different (eq, etc) settings for different music

 

Only having 6-1/2" speakers (alone) means it will be difficult to get a lot of power and extended bass, and adding a big sub (12 or 15") would add a lot of weight - i like the idea of the back-shelf sub in the centre - the boot space acts as a cabinet (so you have a large volume cab but without the weight) - looking at the apace available i recon you could fit an 8" sub unit in the middle of the back shelf, - instead of the usual "junk" they give you for car audio  you could source a pro- audio speaker instead for this one - ("true" power- but needs big power to drive it- i recon the 8" pro speaker would outperform a 12" car one by a large margin) it could be mounted from the back using a timber spacer plate without cutting metal  

 

For the 2 6-1/2" speakers in the back i recon a couple of high-power mids - ive sourced a couple and they are approx 2kgs - with the 8" sub weighing 3kgs so all 3 would weigh 7kgs - not bad considering the potential performance (and a lot lighter than a large sub in a cabinet)  

 

A 4 channel amp with 2 of the channels bridged to drive the 8" sub with an active x-over (with adjustable frequency) and the other 2 channels for the 2  6-1/2" speakers - the 2 speakers could have high pass filters/ crossovers matched to the sub for a smooth transition, this would extend the 6-1/2" speakers/ and connected amps' power handling as well, with the 3 speakers lined up like that (and the x-over setup) there will be no phase distortion

 

the front doors need some speakers with concentric tweeters (ive not sourced the exact ones)- they could be driven from the head unit

 

there would be a spare set of amps left over (the rears rom the head unit) - you could use these for component front speakers or extra tweeters (or for a couple of extra "door" speakers in the rear) 

 

the treble would come from the front and the bass from the back - this will improove stereo imaging the front speakers could have high-pass x-overs as well (to improove handling/ headroom) and reduce phase distortion because the low frequencies are a point- source (the sub)

 

it sounds very complicated but its based on home cinema or some club music system "strategies"

 

with the 3 speakers in the back weighing in at 7kgs, the amp would probably be about 2 to 4 kgs, and the capacitor(close to the anp) and rear speaker cables (if the amp was in the boot the speaker cables wouldbe short) the rear installation would be about 10-12kgs  the head unit would and front speakers would probably be about 4 to 6kgs, so the whole lot would come in at 14-18kgs - light for this standard of system (most of the weight saved by using the boot as a cabinet and going for a very high-power 8" sub instead of a 12" or bigger)

 

Again is sounds complicated/ difficult to set up but with the speaker specs the x-over frequencies etc could be worked out

 

There is a slight little catch in that it would probably be 3 or 4 times your budget (or more) but im working on that too  

 

You could source neo speakers (the Mclaren F1 was the 1st to use them) but that would only save 1kilo on each of the 2 rear 6-1/2" speakers (2kgs altogether) so probably not worth it for the expense

 

The ironic thing is i just have the stock stereo in my Mondeo (i was going to take it out but it actually sounds quite good(at low volunes anyway- the Mondeo acoustics are good)) and each speaker weighs 0.7kg (x4= 2,8) + 2kgs for the head unit = 4.6kgs total (i can live with that weight for some sounds) 

 

 

 

Ive got to do something with mine!

 

PS - i might be able to pick up a suitable pro- audio 8" sub, it has a 2" voice coil, 450w rms and weighs in at 3kgs and a very high 95db sensitivity (1watt at 1 meter) - so it produces 95db at 1 meter, with only 1 watt - awesome!



#5 Lenny

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Posted 10 September 2013 - 11:33 AM

Ok - its always difficult balancing sound and weight - shure, you can spend a lot of money(and time/ effort) putting a lot of audiio hardware in the car, but its going to add a lot of extra weight to the car  
 
Its easy to add a powerful sub that will add a lot of loud bass that sounds good for dance music but would "murder" U2 and Dire Straights - the difficulty is getting the sub to integrate (blend) nicely with the other speakers, with a smooth transition, and no phase/ resonance / x-over problems - you might have to have different (eq, etc) settings for different music
 
Only having 6-1/2" speakers (alone) means it will be difficult to get a lot of power and extended bass, and adding a big sub (12 or 15") would add a lot of weight - i like the idea of the back-shelf sub in the centre - the boot space acts as a cabinet (so you have a large volume cab but without the weight) - looking at the apace available i recon you could fit an 8" sub unit in the middle of the back shelf, - instead of the usual "junk" they give you for car audio  you could source a pro- audio speaker instead for this one - ("true" power- but needs big power to drive it- i recon the 8" pro speaker would outperform a 12" car one by a large margin) it could be mounted from the back using a timber spacer plate without cutting metal  
 
For the 2 6-1/2" speakers in the back i recon a couple of high-power mids - ive sourced a couple and they are approx 2kgs - with the 8" sub weighing 3kgs so all 3 would weigh 7kgs - not bad considering the potential performance (and a lot lighter than a large sub in a cabinet)  
 
A 4 channel amp with 2 of the channels bridged to drive the 8" sub with an active x-over (with adjustable frequency) and the other 2 channels for the 2  6-1/2" speakers - the 2 speakers could have high pass filters/ crossovers matched to the sub for a smooth transition, this would extend the 6-1/2" speakers/ and connected amps' power handling as well, with the 3 speakers lined up like that (and the x-over setup) there will be no phase distortion
 
the front doors need some speakers with concentric tweeters (ive not sourced the exact ones)- they could be driven from the head unit
 
there would be a spare set of amps left over (the rears rom the head unit) - you could use these for component front speakers or extra tweeters (or for a couple of extra "door" speakers in the rear) 
 
the treble would come from the front and the bass from the back - this will improove stereo imaging the front speakers could have high-pass x-overs as well (to improove handling/ headroom) and reduce phase distortion because the low frequencies are a point- source (the sub)
 
it sounds very complicated but its based on home cinema or some club music system "strategies"
 
with the 3 speakers in the back weighing in at 7kgs, the amp would probably be about 2 to 4 kgs, and the capacitor(close to the anp) and rear speaker cables (if the amp was in the boot the speaker cables wouldbe short) the rear installation would be about 10-12kgs  the head unit would and front speakers would probably be about 4 to 6kgs, so the whole lot would come in at 14-18kgs - light for this standard of system (most of the weight saved by using the boot as a cabinet and going for a very high-power 8" sub instead of a 12" or bigger)
 
Again is sounds complicated/ difficult to set up but with the speaker specs the x-over frequencies etc could be worked out
 
There is a slight little catch in that it would probably be 3 or 4 times your budget (or more) but im working on that too  
 
You could source neo speakers (the Mclaren F1 was the 1st to use them) but that would only save 1kilo on each of the 2 rear 6-1/2" speakers (2kgs altogether) so probably not worth it for the expense
 
The ironic thing is i just have the stock stereo in my Mondeo (i was going to take it out but it actually sounds quite good(at low volunes anyway- the Mondeo acoustics are good)) and each speaker weighs 0.7kg (x4= 2,8) + 2kgs for the head unit = 4.6kgs total (i can live with that weight for some sounds) 
 
 
 
Ive got to do something with mine!
 
PS - i might be able to pick up a suitable pro- audio 8" sub, it has a 2" voice coil, 450w rms and weighs in at 3kgs and a very high 95db sensitivity (1watt at 1 meter) - so it produces 95db at 1 meter, with only 1 watt - awesome!


Golden advise foca thanks very much,
The 8" sub in the centre sounds like a great idea and would show compliment to fords i mean toyota's original design of a centre sub,

If the car was brand new I'd say yes 3 times the budget hit me with it,
By I have to remind myself its an old car worth around 3000 at most, although I will be restoring it to its original show room spec with some uprated parts, and I'll love it more than the focus due to its rasp and power (sorry guys)
The most I could justify paying on this project for speakers, sub and amp would be 500 GBP
I can live with the supplied head unit and upgrade it at a later date outside of the budget,

Weight is a concern, but I think you've nailed it there with the idea of fitting 8" sub in centre rear
No need for a heavy box enclosure and it will be supported by the chassis frame beneath,
Resulting in no loose swaying of parts or non musical vibrations. :)

I really appreciate you taking the time to research the various speaker weights and brands for me,
I will most definitely follow your instruction, aswell as hound you for guidance when it comes to wiring it all up.

I can imagine the system will sound sweet having the sub for bass and tweeters for vocal each dedicated to there own playing part.
Magic :)

Would a 0.5 fared capacitor be enough or would I need bigger?
I had a 1.5 fared in my hands before and it was heavy lol

Also regarding weight,
If its all under 25kg should be fine,
Considering the sub and rear speakers will be resting on the chassis frame directly above the rear axle it will be at its best position for support aswell as being equally spread.
Front speakers will be in the doors which shouldnt effect anything really and tweeters fitted inside of side wing mirrors.

I'm now saving every cent until December or January,
Purely to purchase the car itself, I won't be buying anything until January/February after the car has been purchased,
The premium price there selling for now is around 2500-3000 so I'm aiming to save 3000 and purchase the most reliable standard spec one I can, by standard spec I mean no aftermarket halfords Ripspeed scutter fitted to it :)
Then tastefully modify it, this way I can more guarantee it hasn't been mistreated,
Once February arrives I'll be in a position to purchase your recommendation mate.

#6 FOCA

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Posted 10 September 2013 - 01:22 PM

I recon a 1 farad capacitor would be fine - alternatively, you could re-locate the battery to the boot - even if it was a lighter one if its close to the amp its going to help, and no need for a capacitor - the power and back shelf speaker cables would probably only be a metre long so good for instant power, and keeps the weight down (even if you used heavy duty cables)

 

i recon you can get it well under 25kgs, with a bit of work/ care choosing the components - and 15kgs would be achiavable but still with exellent sound, you should feel the difference on that car  

 

Usually, you have to go for no or a rubbish sound system, and have a light "stripped out" car, or have a good audio installation that weighs a tonne and slows the car down - (light weight does not seem to be a priority with most installations)

 

so you can have a light car for performance, or a heavy "sound car", but not both

 

it would be something to have a powerful, exellent sounding but lightweight system

 

I like the way you are planning it all out before you have even got the car!   



#7 Lenny

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Posted 11 September 2013 - 09:36 AM

on a 1 farad cacitor would be fine - alternatively, you could re-locate the battery to the boot - even if it was a lighter one if its close to the amp its going to help, and no need for a capacitor - the power and back shelf speaker cables would probably only be a metre long so good for instant power, and keeps the weight down (even if you used heavy duty cables)
i recon you can get it well under 25kgs, with a bit of work/ care choosing the components - and 15kgs would be achiavable but still with exellent sound, you should feel the difference on that car  
Usually, you have to go for no or a rubbish sound system, and have a light "stripped out" car, or have a good audio installation that weighs a tonne and slows the car down - (light weight does not seem to be a priority with most installations)
 
so you can have a light car for performance, or a heavy "sound car", but not both
 
it would be something to have a powerful, exellent sounding but lightweight system
I like the way you are planning it all out before you have even got the car!   

Thanks very much foca,
I like to plan things out first, gives me motivation and a better idea of cost so I know then the course the mods will follow,
Makes it easier to keep feeding it money lol

I've looked on eBay at battery relocation kits and yes that will be worth doing, its not as expensive as I first thought, and they have some nice battery box's that hide the battery from view, I've also saw air tight sealed battery box with a pipe to run to outside of the car for venting the battery,
Looks the business,
Would I join on to the existing battery terminals in the engine bay
Or
Run new cables directly to the altinator ?

The battery in the boot will also help security,
I plan to have an alarm and he car has an immobiliser but I like to fit a rich rook battery cut off bolt with crossover cable,
This would be easier to plug and remove if the battery was in the boot,
Plus the boot won't have a key hole fitted, so very difficult to break in to it.

Other advantages of battery relocation, as you have informed me I won't need a capacitor and better weight distribution,
So the cost of the capacitor is around the same as a good battery relocation kit,
It won't cost me any more than a cap but it will save me on weight.

IF you have time at some stage over the coming months,
If you could link me to some good equipment to achieve the system you described id really appreciate it mate,
Thanks.

#8 FOCA

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Posted 14 September 2013 - 07:54 PM

Ive sketched some details -

 

550d  Ai 012- Levin audio install crop- bright-1200 wide .jpg

 

I have the 8" sub but im still tracking down the other components - the x-over is based on a PA system so it might be difficult to track one down with the right specs (stell searching)

 

the pro- audio drive units are 8 ohm so they need "mighty" amps to drive them, the sub would use 2 of the 4 amps (bridged) so that will help, along with the efficiency of the drivers



#9 Lenny

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Posted 14 September 2013 - 08:34 PM

Ive sketched some details -
 
index-1_zps8d780947.jpg
 
I have the 8" sub but im still tracking down the other components - the x-over is based on a PA system so it might be difficult to track one down with the right specs (stell searching)
 
the pro- audio drive units are 8 ohm so they need "mighty" amps to drive them, the sub would use 2 of the 4 amps (bridged) so that will help, along with the efficiency of the drivers

Jesus mate,
Your putting a lot of time in to this for me I really appreciate it,
You can draw aswell lol I'm not that good personally,

When you say you have the sub I presume you mean you have found a specific model that will do the job,
Or d you mean you physically have a sub for sale that will do the job,

To be honest I don't understand the x over, or bridging but ill learn from google so as i get up to speed with the terms mate,
I dont want to waste your time explaining the terms to me, keep talking terms
Ill research the terms myself to get myself up to speed with what your telling me so as i understand fully.

I understand each speaker will be dedicated audio sounds and looks fantastic,
Will i need to fit the boxs for the speakers ?
I was going to mount them in to the parcel shelf directly,
Do you mean to fit the box under the parcel shelf inside the boot to create an enclosure,

I like the spacer for the sub too that would be spot on mate,

Whats the difference between 2 way concentric speakers u font
And
2 way component speakers up front

Its going to be great fun relocating the battery to the boot and fitting this speaker set up,
When relocating the battery,
I run a positive cable from the battery in the boot to the engine bay,
Do I splice it with the original battery positive or run it straight to the altinator?
I've also found a braille battery on eBay that is a dry cell designed for fitting in the car,
As result doesn't give off gasses or leak acid.
Also spotted vented battery boxes that are air tight sealed,
With a pipe to run through a grommet in the floor allowing the battery enclosure to be vented directly outside the car,

#10 FOCA

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Posted 14 September 2013 - 09:23 PM

Ok - your asking all the right questions- the reason the 2 (6") side speakers have their own enclosures is to isolate them from the 8" sub - the boot space becomes one big speaker enclosure (technically "infinate baffle") the sub needs this to get the cone excursion and to produce the low frequencies/ bass  - if the 2 side speakers are not phisically isolated it means they are effectively in the same enclosure - so the powerfull (low frequency) movement of the subwoofer cone could "push" the smaller (6") speakers the speakers tend to be "semi - transparent" to sound and much of the sound can radiate from the back of the speakers and "rattle around" in the boot space - the enclosures help to stop/ reduce both these things - the enclosures are not essential - but better - the 6" will not need big enclosures/ boxes (as they don't have to handle the bass) so they can be "tight" around the 6" speakers - keeping the boxes stiff and light - they could also be filled with acoustic wadding (cotton wool etc) so they would be like 2 bookshelf speakers

 

 

As far as im aware the relocation kits simply attach to the old battery posts - its a good idea of yours to put them directly to the alternator - there is probably a heavy- duty cable going to the starter motor - you could probably connect direct to this too - and the earth strap from the battery to engine & chassis - it would depend on the layout of the wiring (ie - whats the point of putting a heavy duty cable to where the battery used to be, then another to the starter motor)

 

Ive got a high-end 8" speaker (a pair, actually) they were in a set of studio/ Dj monitors - i don't use them now as i have a set of Dynaudio bm6As - ive got far too much stuff i barely use and im having a clearout -  im not fitting high- end audio to my car to keep the weight down - but i would love to see gear like this fitted to a car - thats probably why i ive been thinking about it - a friend recommended i got an a3 pad and start writing any ideas down - this was the 1st think if written/ drawn - ive not drawn anything in years (its all in my head) - ive a feeling i will be scribbling a lot more stuff down

 

the audio setup would be a bit special - i don't think there would be another quite like it

 

I will come back to this later with more info .......     



#11 FOCA

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Posted 15 September 2013 - 03:14 AM

Jesus mate,
Your putting a lot of time in to this for me I really appreciate it,

FOCA - I enjoy it - i get really enthusiastic and often get "carried away" with a project - i used to design/ build large scale PA systems (mobile and club) and would like to apply the techniques/ technology to car audio + the "high end, powerful but lightweight" concept  

I would love to have a "mental" audio installation but went for the "basic/ stripped out" style - im jealous really - after "sweating blood" to get the weight down on my project car, there is no way im going to put it back in (with audio gear) - thats why i was thinking "lightweight" - still too heavy for me - needs to be "featherweight" - most people thing im completely mad doing that to a Mondeo

 


You can draw aswell lol I'm not that good personally,

FOCA - Thanks -  im not that good either but i can draw from memory/ out of my head

                                                

When you say you have the sub I presume you mean you have found a specific model that will do the job,
Or d you mean you physically have a sub for sale that will do the job,

FOCA - yes (in other post)
 

To be honest I don't understand the x over, or bridging but ill learn from google so as i get up to speed with the terms mate,
I dont want to waste your time explaining the terms to me, keep talking terms
Ill research the terms myself to get myself up to speed with what your telling me so as i understand fully.

A lot of people would not get their heads arounf this atall - for other readers bridging is combining 2 amps in a special way to increase power output - output can be quadrupled - x-overs or crossovers spit the sound into different bands 2 way, 3 way or more passive - x-overs  is between the amp and speakers (or boult into the speakers) active x-over(s)n  is where the sound is split into multiple bands before going into the amps - for more power and quality -

FOCA - So with the levin the sound would be split into 3 bands (using an active x-over after coming out of the head unit) bass, mid and treble - the bass would go into the bridged amp (2 of the 4 channels in the "rear" amp) then into the 8" bass speaker - the mid output (from the x-over) would feed the 6" speakers (all with seperate amps) and the treble (output from the x-over) would feed the tweeters (again seperate amps for every speaker unit) - so you would need 4 up front (for 6" & tweeter, L&R) - but the head unit could do and the 3 amps in the rear - if you wanted to also add a pair of tweeters to the rear, (i just thought of that) you would need another 2 amps (a pair) that would then be nine amps in total, - this would give individual control of eack of the speakers, the x-over frequencies would be adjustable too - so it would be the "ultimate" in control to get the best sound, and the seperate amps increase the power, and sound quality - a high(er) end head unit would have a multi- band graphic built in - ideally you need one with saperate pre - outs and inputs for the built-in amps, ultimately you may have to use more external amps 
 

I understand each speaker will be dedicated audio sounds and looks fantastic,
Will i need to fit the boxs for the speakers ?
I was going to mount them in to the parcel shelf directly,

You could but the sound & power would be better with the enclosures
Do you mean to fit the box under the parcel shelf inside the boot to create an enclosure,

FOCA - Yes - spot on
 

I like the spacer for the sub too that would be spot on mate,

Yes, it will stiffen the area around the speaker - the "overlap" ("masking" of part of the speaker) should not effect the sound as its bass only 

Whats the difference between 2 way concentric speakers u font
And
2 way component speakers up front

FOCA - The concentric speakers would be one "component" with the tweeter in the middle of the woofer - and with just + & - / one channel / connection(s) that would just connect directly to the front speaker outlets of the head unit (so, simple to set up & compact - a good pair would give decent sound and extended treble) - "wwin cone" is just 1 speaker with an extra "cone" in the middle to boost treble

 

The 2-way component speakers would have a woofer, and a seperate tweeter - this is more complicated, expensive and you have to find space for the tweeters, the sound should be better (on high end units, anyway) and there should be a better power handling - you can also power the tweetwers with seperate amps ("active") - again increasing power, and handling, and you would have a pair of amps left over (the rear speaker outputs on the head unit - you wouldent otherwise use them because of the amp/s powering the rear speakers )   
 

Its going to be great fun relocating the battery to the boot and fitting this speaker set up,
When relocating the battery,
I run a positive cable from the battery in the boot to the engine bay,
Do I splice it with the original battery positive or run it straight to the altinator?
I've also found a braille battery on eBay that is a dry cell designed for fitting in the car,
As result doesn't give off gasses or leak acid.
Also spotted vented battery boxes that are air tight sealed,
With a pipe to run through a grommet in the floor allowing the battery enclosure to be vented directly outside the car,

FOCA - Ive found (it wasnt me actually- it was on another forum) a battery that is sealed, is powerful enough for the Levin and weighs 2kgs! (its a racing bike battery- nimh) - its not cheap though



#12 Lenny

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Posted 15 September 2013 - 07:39 AM

A lot of people would not get their heads arounf this atall - for other readers bridging is combining 2 amps in a special way to increase power output - output can be quadrupled - x-overs or crossovers spit the sound into different bands 2 way, 3 way or more passive - x-overs  is between the amp and speakers (or boult into the speakers) active x-over(s)n  is where the sound is split into multiple bands before going into the amps - for more power and quality -
 
so with the levin the sound would be split into 3 bands (using an active x-over after coming out of the head unit) bass, mid and treble - the bass would go into the bridged amp (2 of the 4 channels in the "rear" amp) then into the 8" bass speaker - the mid output (from the x-over) would feed the 6" speakers (all with seperate amps) and the treble (output from the x-over) would feed the tweeters (again seperate amps for every speaker unit) - so you would need 4 up front (for 6" & tweeter, L&R) - but the head unit could do and the 3 amps in the rear - if you wanted to also add a pair of tweeters to the rear, (i just thought of that) you would need another 2 amps (a pair) that would then be nine amps in total, - this would give individual control of eack of the speakers, the x-over frequencies would be adjustable too - so it would be the "ultimate" in control to get the best sound, and the seperate amps increase the power, and sound quality - a high(er) end head unit would have a multi- band graphic built in - ideally you need one with saperate pre - outs and inputs for the built-in amps, ultimately you may have to use more external amps       

I understand each speaker will be dedicated audio sounds and looks fantastic,
Will i need to fit the boxs for the speakers ?
I was going to mount them in to the parcel shelf directly,
You could but the sound & power would be better with the enclosures
Do you mean to fit the box under the parcel shelf inside the boot to create an enclosure,
Yes - spot on

I like the spacer for the sub too that would be spot on mate,
Yes, it will stiffen the area around the speaker - the "overlap" ("masking" of part of the speaker) should not effect the sound as its bass only 
Whats the difference between 2 way concentric speakers u font
And
2 way component speakers up front
The concentric speakers would be one "component" with the tweeter in the middle of the woofer - and with just + & - / one channel / connection(s) that would just connect directly to the front speaker outlets of the head unit (so, simple to set up & compact - a good pair would give decent sound and extended treble) - "wwin cone" is just 1 speaker with an extra "cone" in the middle to boost treble
 
The 2-way component speakers would have a woofer, and a seperate tweeter - this is more complicated, expensive and you have to find space for the tweeters, the sound should be better (on high end units, anyway) and there should be a better power handling - you can also power the tweetwers with seperate amps ("active") - again increasing power, and handling, and you would have a pair of amps left over (the rear speaker outputs on the head unit - you wouldent otherwise use them because of the amp/s powering the rear speakers )
 

Thanks foca,
Last message you posted got a bit tangled with the quote,
I've edited the quote to only contain your post but I don't have moderation of this forum section,
So I can't edit your post to reflect the quote,
However you can edit it yourself and copy the section I've quoted above,

Anyways back to topic,

So its like this for the rear speakers.

Headunit ---- X over ----- Amp ---- each rear speaker

Then the front speakers will be fed directly from the head unit yes?

The front of the Levin has stock tweerers inside the wing mirror corresponding covers,
So I'd link to fit a set of 6" component speakers up front with inline crossovers to power the tweeters.

I wouldn't bother with tweeters in the back,
If I could get the rear 6" speakers to be concentric for the rear then the sub would provide sufficient base,

Am I correct so far?

I'd prefer not to have tweeters in the back because I don't want to draw the sound focus away from the front,
I'd like to keep vocal and high up front and the lower sounds coming from the rear, backing up the front.
Am I correct on that idea ?

The sub that you have mate,
Is it designed for automotive installation ?
And with the X-overs I'll still only need the one amplifier ?

#13 Lenny

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Posted 15 September 2013 - 08:53 AM

Ok - your asking all the right questions- the reason the 2 (6") side speakers have their own enclosures is to isolate them from the 8" sub - the boot space becomes one big speaker enclosure (technically "infinate baffle") the sub needs this to get the cone excursion and to produce the low frequencies/ bass  - if the 2 side speakers are not phisically isolated it means they are effectively in the same enclosure - so the powerfull (low frequency) movement of the subwoofer cone could "push" the smaller (6") speakers the speakers tend to be "semi - transparent" to sound and much of the sound can radiate from the back of the speakers and "rattle around" in the boot space - the enclosures help to stop/ reduce both these things - the enclosures are not essential - but better - the 6" will not need big enclosures/ boxes (as they don't have to handle the bass) so they can be "tight" around the 6" speakers - keeping the boxes stiff and light - they could also be filled with acoustic wadding (cotton wool etc) so they would be like 2 bookshelf speakers

Ow I see what you mean,
The blast from the sub would disturb the vibrations of the neighbouring 6" speakers,
I've saw and had 6" MDF carpet covered 6" enclosures before in the boot of the starlet, they were solid and fairly light,
I'll try source them again for the install.


As far as im aware the relocation kits simply attach to the old battery posts - its a good idea of yours to put them directly to the alternator - there is probably a heavy- duty cable going to the starter motor - you could probably connect direct to this too - and the earth strap from the battery to engine & chassis - it would depend on the layout of the wiring (ie - whats the point of putting a heavy duty cable to where the battery used to be, then another to the starter motor)  

Thanks,
I'd like to fit a kill switch in the car somewhere hidden,
With a small fused crossover cable allowing enough power for the stereo to keep its code etc,
But not enough to actually start the car would help prevent theft along with an alarm,
If the boot has no lock aswell would also help, no way to get to the battery to stop the alarm.

Ive got a high-end 8" speaker (a pair, actually) they were in a set of studio/ Dj monitors - i don't use them now as i have a set of Dynaudio bm6As - ive got far too much stuff i barely use and im having a clearout -  im not fitting high- end audio to my car to keep the weight down - but i would love to see gear like this fitted to a car - thats probably why i ive been thinking about it - a friend recommended i got an a3 pad and start writing any ideas down - this was the 1st think if written/ drawn - ive not drawn anything in years (its all in my head) - ive a feeling i will be scribbling a lot more stuff down
the audio setup would be a bit special - i don't think there would be another quite like it
 

Sounds brilliant mate,
I'll be using the stock grills to cover them anyway a so it won't matter about grills or anything,
I'll just have to source a Levin factory fit grill for the rear centre sub as the original 6x9 sub but I like a challenge and there's plenty of them breaking.
Let me know via pm how much I'll owe you and I'll fix up with ya around december .

#14 FOCA

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Posted 16 September 2013 - 04:39 AM

The kill switch is no problem, the audio could have its own, seperate fused power  so it could not overload/ or if there was a fault it would not affect the cars' wiring/ (that was not affected by the kill switch), the kill switch could be hidden anywhere between the battery and the engine bay

 

I found some lightweight racing batteries - they are l-ion (same as laptops and mobile phones), so are very light for their power, and are sealed / do not need a vent/ drain - i cant se any prices but i bet they are not cheap - it would save a lot of weight (about 8-10kgs on my car, not sure about yours) - would help offset the extra weight of the audio gear - mmm... tempting

 

linky -

http://lithiumpros.c...-12v-batteries/



#15 Lenny

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Posted 18 September 2013 - 07:56 PM

The kill switch is no problem, the audio could have its own, seperate fused power  so it could not overload/ or if there was a fault it would not affect the cars' wiring/ (that was not affected by the kill switch), the kill switch could be hidden anywhere between the battery and the engine bay
 
I found some lightweight racing batteries - they are l-ion (same as laptops and mobile phones), so are very light for their power, and are sealed / do not need a vent/ drain - i cant se any prices but i bet they are not cheap - it would save a lot of weight (about 8-10kgs on my car, not sure about yours) - would help offset the extra weight of the audio gear - mmm... tempting
 
linky -
http://lithiumpros.c...-12v-batteries/

I like the plan of having the audio on a desperate circuit,
And I plan to have a kill switch hidden somewhere too,

I've found some soundproof speaker enclosures available in various sizes that may suit the rear 6.5" speakers,
You said previously in the plan that some MDF enclosures around the rear 6.5" speakers would help them aswell as prevent noise contamination from the sub,
Well I found these, would be rights than MDF and a straight fit.
. http://www.ebay.co.u...984.m1423.l2649

If they don't work, I can give them to Vicki for flower pots :lol:

This battery's you linked look great, I'm sure they are very expensive though,
I did find some braile light 18kg I think,
Car battery says its suitable for boo install and doesn't give off gasses or leak acid,
Costs around 180 pounds, and says it will last 7-8 years
S I reckon its worth that price f it lasts that long and can be fitted inside the car then it should be good.

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