Jump to content


Photo

Focus Titanum 1,6 Tdci 2008 Eberspacher Heater


  • Please log in to reply
20 replies to this topic

#1 cartman9090

cartman9090

    Member

  • Budding Enthusiast
  • PipPip
  • 29 posts
  • Name: Kent
  • Ford Model: Ford focus 1,6 TDCI titanum
  • Year: 2008
  • Location: Other / Non-UK

Posted 20 October 2013 - 07:40 PM

In menu my eber is set to help warming up engine. It works fine, there is little smoke even in garage,
but it starts even if it is + 7-9 degree celcius ! It shuts down when it is supposed to ok.

The Eber extra heater is supposed to work in colder temp than + 5 degree as far as I know.
There are two silver buttons for electricity inside window front and rear, they lit automatically in this model, and they do NOT initiate at temperaure as high as up to + 9 degree. This should be correct.

Then: Can the outside temperature sensor be wrong, have wrong operation characteristic or other problem? In that case, why don't this effect automatic electricity in windows as mentioned above?

Or is there any other temperature sensor that only the eberspacher diesel heater use to initiate?

I do not know if climate temperature user settings effect whether eberheater start sooner or later due to outside temperature. According to my local Ford garage, there is no porgramming either.

Is this to be considered as a "fault", or what step should be taken?

Attached Thumbnails

  • IMG_20131001_152410.jpg


Have something to contribute?

Sign in or register to start a topic...

Sign up to FOC Premium Membership To Remove These Ads

#2 lucky.jack

lucky.jack

    Member

  • Budding Enthusiast
  • PipPip
  • 13 posts
  • Name: jack
  • Ford Model: Focus 2
  • Year: 2007
  • Location: Other / Non-UK
Contributor

Posted 20 October 2013 - 07:49 PM

Is there english language in instrument panel?  I don´t know Swedish(?). Maybe it´s information about using of heating only and it´s OK...



#3 cartman9090

cartman9090

    Member

  • Budding Enthusiast
  • PipPip
  • 29 posts
  • Name: Kent
  • Ford Model: Ford focus 1,6 TDCI titanum
  • Year: 2008
  • Location: Other / Non-UK

Posted 20 October 2013 - 07:57 PM

Is there english language in instrument panel?  I don´t know Swedish(?). Maybe it´s information about using of heating only and it´s OK...


Swedish yes, imported to norway as new.

English can be enabled i think, but there is no relevant information there. Ford locally say there is no fault codes either!

#4 Carl0s

Carl0s

    Feet Under The Table

  • Budding Enthusiast
  • PipPipPipPip
  • 117 posts
  • Name: Carl
  • Ford Model: Mondeo MK4
  • Year: 2006
  • Location: Other / Non-UK

Posted 20 October 2013 - 08:31 PM

The external heater is realy a lot more siplyer then people think. The basic installation only requires 3 wires: Battery connection and one that turns the device on. To turn it on you can use ether the remote, the clock, or as ford uses, the cars computer. 

 

For example, when the temperature drops bellow 5c the computer sends current to the ext.heater on wire, and it fires up. After that, the "command" goes to the external heaters brainunit, that takes care of the heating, and turing down. 

 

But! mine did not have the eberspächer by deffault, but it had that electrical ext. heater. And that electrical ext heater turns on if the egine is cold, and you turn the interior temperature all the way up. In another words, you demand more heat to the cabin then the coolant can give. 

 

I think that something similar is happening here. You demand more temp then there is available, so the car computer kicks the eber on. But, becose its 9c outside, there is no need to defrost the windows, so the front- and rearwindow heaters are off. 



#5 cartman9090

cartman9090

    Member

  • Budding Enthusiast
  • PipPip
  • 29 posts
  • Name: Kent
  • Ford Model: Ford focus 1,6 TDCI titanum
  • Year: 2008
  • Location: Other / Non-UK

Posted 20 October 2013 - 08:52 PM

The external heater is realy a lot more siplyer then people think. The basic installation only requires 3 wires: Battery connection and one that turns the device on. To turn it on you can use ether the remote, the clock, or as ford uses, the cars computer. 
 
For example, when the temperature drops bellow 5c the computer sends current to the ext.heater on wire, and it fires up. After that, the "command" goes to the external heaters brainunit, that takes care of the heating, and turing down. 
 
But! mine did not have the eberspächer by deffault, but it had that electrical ext. heater. And that electrical ext heater turns on if the egine is cold, and you turn the interior temperature all the way up. In another words, you demand more heat to the cabin then the coolant can give. 
 
I think that something similar is happening here. You demand more temp then there is available, so the car computer kicks the eber on. But, becose its 9c outside, there is no need to defrost the windows, so the front- and rearwindow heaters are off. 


I have been considering that if demanding 25 degree inside car before starting the engine, actually would effect Eberspächer to initiate at higher temperature than + 5 degree celcius outside. But this theory has not been mentioned anywhere I have been investigated so far.
I will check it out!

Second, if outside temperature sensor is ok, then there is no other conclusion than that the computer is troubling?

#6 Carl0s

Carl0s

    Feet Under The Table

  • Budding Enthusiast
  • PipPipPipPip
  • 117 posts
  • Name: Carl
  • Ford Model: Mondeo MK4
  • Year: 2006
  • Location: Other / Non-UK

Posted 20 October 2013 - 08:58 PM

Actualy, i was just checking the wiring diagram (installing aftermarket eber on my focus) for where to connect the heater fan control, and in the wiring diagram, there is output on the heater unit "Ext. heater request". 

 

So, i dont know if it's "required temp higher then what the engine can give out" or if you max it. :/ 

 

 

EDIT: yeap, both heater control untis has "A5 AUX. HEATER REQUEST". So i would say that its working as intended :)

 

EDIT2: Yeap, if the temp sensor says 9c then thats it. Same sensor info is used for the instrument cluster, and to fire the aux heater. 

 

Tho, after rechecking it seems that the eberspächer you have is "newer generation" and is can-bus controlled instead of the good old fashion "12volts to this wire and it runs untill i cut the power"... Tho, the principle stays same, but the 2 units can pass information back and forth, that widers the usage possibilities. 

 

 

But summansumarum: I would say that if you go to your car, turn it on and crank the cabin heat all the way to the max, step outside and wait 3mins you should hear the eberspächer starting. 

 

(if its first time it runs after the summer, it might take few tries before she fires up properly, and after it fires let it run for few minutes... And it might smoke... alot! but thats normal and the smoking should stop when it runs properly)



#7 cartman9090

cartman9090

    Member

  • Budding Enthusiast
  • PipPip
  • 29 posts
  • Name: Kent
  • Ford Model: Ford focus 1,6 TDCI titanum
  • Year: 2008
  • Location: Other / Non-UK

Posted 20 October 2013 - 09:29 PM

Actualy, i was just checking the wiring diagram (installing aftermarket eber on my focus) for where to connect the heater fan control, and in the wiring diagram, there is output on the heater unit "Ext. heater request". 
 
So, i dont know if it's "required temp higher then what the engine can give out" or if you max it. :/ 
 
 
EDIT: yeap, both heater control untis has "A5 AUX. HEATER REQUEST". So i would say that its working as intended :)
 
EDIT2: Yeap, if the temp sensor says 9c then thats it. Same sensor info is used for the instrument cluster, and to fire the aux heater. 
 
Tho, after rechecking it seems that the eberspächer you have is "newer generation" and is can-bus controlled instead of the good old fashion "12volts to this wire and it runs untill i cut the power"... Tho, the principle stays same, but the 2 units can pass information back and forth, that widers the usage possibilities. 
 
 
But summansumarum: I would say that if you go to your car, turn it on and crank the cabin heat all the way to the max, step outside and wait 3mins you should hear the eberspächer starting. 
 
(if its first time it runs after the summer, it might take few tries before she fires up properly, and after it fires let it run for few minutes... And it might smoke... alot! but thats normal and the smoking should stop when it runs properly)


Yes, someone told me that there is only one outside temperature sensor(located in front),
http://www.mp-system...lation-location
and that this sensor gives the outside temperature signal to a central unit ("gem unit"), which in turn passes it on to different consumers like display temp, electrical window heat etc.

I did not quite understand how you read from the schematics that inside temperature setting actually could initiate eber to kickstart at higher than +5 ?

#8 Carl0s

Carl0s

    Feet Under The Table

  • Budding Enthusiast
  • PipPipPipPip
  • 117 posts
  • Name: Carl
  • Ford Model: Mondeo MK4
  • Year: 2006
  • Location: Other / Non-UK

Posted 20 October 2013 - 09:35 PM

On the wiring diagram, heater control section you can find the heater unit, on that heater unit there is output that is labelled as "Aux heater request". That, and the fact that thats how it the PTC heater works on my car (its +8c and if i turn the heat all the way to the max, i get the "Aux heater on" message on the cluster. I turn it down a bit, and it goes "Aux heater off". :)

 

 

 

http://imageshack.us/f/19/cu6h.jpg/



#9 cartman9090

cartman9090

    Member

  • Budding Enthusiast
  • PipPip
  • 29 posts
  • Name: Kent
  • Ford Model: Ford focus 1,6 TDCI titanum
  • Year: 2008
  • Location: Other / Non-UK

Posted 20 October 2013 - 09:54 PM

On the wiring diagram, heater control section you can find the heater unit, on that heater unit there is output that is labelled as "Aux heater request". That, and the fact that thats how it the PTC heater works on my car (its +8c and if i turn the heat all the way to the max, i get the "Aux heater on" message on the cluster. I turn it down a bit, and it goes "Aux heater off". :)
 
 
 
http://imageshack.us/f/19/cu6h.jpg/


Does the temperature user control setting in your car effect the signal into the central unit before engine start? Or is it a type of heater that works during engine running?

#10 Carl0s

Carl0s

    Feet Under The Table

  • Budding Enthusiast
  • PipPipPipPip
  • 117 posts
  • Name: Carl
  • Ford Model: Mondeo MK4
  • Year: 2006
  • Location: Other / Non-UK

Posted 20 October 2013 - 10:04 PM

Does the temperature user control setting in your car effect the signal into the central unit before engine start? Or is it a type of heater that works during engine running?

Nope, the ptc is electric heater, so it draws lot of juice, and only works when the engine is runing so you dont drain your battery, but the principle is same. You demand heat, max the temp dial and it kicks the aux heater to deliver.

 

But, tomorrow im disasembling the heater unit to connect the eberspächer fan control, so i can check if the heater control sends the on singal, but the juice is coming straight from the altenator ("D" line).

 

 

 

EDIT:  The Eberspächer is controlled by "AUX HEATER REQUEST OR PJB VIA CAN FROM DATC MODULE" So its starts if the climate control is maxed, (aux heat request) or the GEM says its cold outside (<+5), crank up the heat (CAN). 



#11 cartman9090

cartman9090

    Member

  • Budding Enthusiast
  • PipPip
  • 29 posts
  • Name: Kent
  • Ford Model: Ford focus 1,6 TDCI titanum
  • Year: 2008
  • Location: Other / Non-UK

Posted 20 October 2013 - 10:08 PM

Nope, the ptc is electric heater, so it draws lot of juice, and only works when the engine is runing so you dont drain your battery, but the principle is same. You demand heat, max the temp dial and it kicks the aux heater to deliver.
 
But, tomorrow im disasembling the heater unit to connect the eberspächer fan control, so i can check if the heater control sends the on singal, but the juice is coming straight from the altenator ("D" line).


I get it, and damn i'd like to hear if you fint that signal :-) Of course I will test heater with min. or max setting on temperature wheel first thing in the morning, it is reported warmer outside:-)

#12 cartman9090

cartman9090

    Member

  • Budding Enthusiast
  • PipPip
  • 29 posts
  • Name: Kent
  • Ford Model: Ford focus 1,6 TDCI titanum
  • Year: 2008
  • Location: Other / Non-UK

Posted 22 October 2013 - 06:31 PM

 
 EDIT:  The Eberspächer is controlled by "AUX HEATER REQUEST OR PJB VIA CAN FROM DATC MODULE" So its starts if the climate control is maxed, (aux heat request) or the GEM says its cold outside (<+5), crank up the heat (CAN). 


Ok! Do you mean this goes for the system in my 2008? I cannot test since higher temp than +3 is not expected for now :-/

#13 Carl0s

Carl0s

    Feet Under The Table

  • Budding Enthusiast
  • PipPipPipPip
  • 117 posts
  • Name: Carl
  • Ford Model: Mondeo MK4
  • Year: 2006
  • Location: Other / Non-UK

Posted 22 October 2013 - 08:49 PM

Ok! Do you mean this goes for the system in my 2008? I cannot test since higher temp than +3 is not expected for now :-/

 

 

Nope, i did not have the chance to check that out. I ended up to do the heater fan control in the enginebay fusebox, so i did not need to disassemble the heater controls. 

 

But, i accidentaly runned in some info about the heater controll when i was looking info about the ELM-Config on Bluetooth adapter from a finnish forum. And there someone did know that if you have the automatic AC, and you have the temp setting high enough compared to engine temp, the climate controll requests AUX heat from gem by CAN, and GEM kicks the eberspächer on. Or if you have manual controls, there is a small "blip" when you max the heat, thats the switch that turns the AUX heat request analogicly on, and kicks the eberspächer / PTC heater on. 



#14 cartman9090

cartman9090

    Member

  • Budding Enthusiast
  • PipPip
  • 29 posts
  • Name: Kent
  • Ford Model: Ford focus 1,6 TDCI titanum
  • Year: 2008
  • Location: Other / Non-UK

Posted 22 October 2013 - 09:01 PM

 
 
Nope, i did not have the chance to check that out. I ended up to do the heater fan control in the enginebay fusebox, so i did not need to disassemble the heater controls. 
 
But, i accidentaly runned in some info about the heater controll when i was looking info about the ELM-Config on Bluetooth adapter from a finnish forum. And there someone did know that if you have the automatic AC, and you have the temp setting high enough compared to engine temp, the climate controll requests AUX heat from gem by CAN, and GEM kicks the eberspächer on. Or if you have manual controls, there is a small "blip" when you max the heat, thats the switch that turns the AUX heat request analogicly on, and kicks the eberspächer / PTC heater on. 


Ok! Was this independent of a limit of +5 degree outside, do you know? thank you very much for info!

#15 Carl0s

Carl0s

    Feet Under The Table

  • Budding Enthusiast
  • PipPipPipPip
  • 117 posts
  • Name: Carl
  • Ford Model: Mondeo MK4
  • Year: 2006
  • Location: Other / Non-UK

Posted 22 October 2013 - 09:21 PM

Ok! Was this independent of a limit of +5 degree outside, do you know? thank you very much for info!

 

Yeap, but there was limitation that engine needed to be under 70c and the outside temp bellow 10c. :)



Have something to contribute?

Sign in or register to start a topic...


Not what you're looking for?

Register now, we have a huge community of enthusiasts to answer any questions you might have



0 user(s) are reading this topic

0 members, 0 guests, 0 anonymous users