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1.8 Tdci Running On Added 2 Stroke?


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#1 jimmygixer

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Posted 21 October 2013 - 01:49 PM

Anyone tried running on a bit of 2 stroke added to the diesel.

Lots of supporters of this online claiming ; slight increase in mpg

                                                                  Quieter & smoother running

                                                                  Vast reduction in soot from exhaust under load and start up 

                                                                  Better wear protection for pump and injectors

                                                                  Improvement in throttle response

                                                                  Good way of cleaning fuel system.

 

Apparently  1/200 ratio of low ash mineral 2 stroke is best, so about 250ml every tank based on 50 liters.

5l of comma 2 stroke can be had for around £17, so costing 85p per tank and meant to be better at keeping fuel system lubed and clean than any of the expensive tank additives.



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#2 jeebowhite

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Posted 21 October 2013 - 02:29 PM

Amongst other things, the oil acts as a lubricant, but then all your doing is eco modding the fuel, so for example, diesel these dys tends to be a concoction of diesel and bio diesel. All you are doing here, is modding it even further. The problem is, the less diesel you have in the fuel and the more oil you burn, the more damage you do to the engine, the exhausts and the valves. It might be good for a few miles, but it will start to bite later on.

 

You have to be really careful as it might be good in small doses, but if you already have a high concentration of bio to diesel and you add this bit more, it could be the oil drop that brakes the engines back!



#3 jimmygixer

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Posted 21 October 2013 - 02:50 PM

Amongst other things, the oil acts as a lubricant, but then all your doing is eco modding the fuel, so for example, diesel these dys tends to be a concoction of diesel and bio diesel. All you are doing here, is modding it even further. The problem is, the less diesel you have in the fuel and the more oil you burn, the more damage you do to the engine, the exhausts and the valves. It might be good for a few miles, but it will start to bite later on.

 

You have to be really careful as it might be good in small doses, but if you already have a high concentration of bio to diesel and you add this bit more, it could be the oil drop that brakes the engines back!

 There's some posts online from a few people who seem to have good knowledge of engines who have stripped the heads off very high mileage engines and they are in near pristine condition, wear wise and for cleanliness. They claim they used 2 stroke in their car for years and this is the reason for the great condition.

I understand what you are saying, but if used in the right quantity, more lubrication with soot and emissions sometimes halved only sounds beneficial.

Also i thought the modern diesel is known to have less lubrication due to the lack of sulfur?



#4 jeebowhite

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Posted 21 October 2013 - 04:11 PM

Hi Jimmy,

 

I agree, in the right quantities, its entirely possible that you will get all the benefit and none of the problem, but as to the sulphur, I know the content is less, but the oil viscosity caters for this at engine design, which is why brands have a "recommended fuel". As they design the engine based on the fuel contents of a particular manufacturer, and they build the engine spec around this.



#5 georgen

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Posted 21 October 2013 - 07:38 PM

I have known about this for a while, but with my last few motors being petrol have forgot about it so cheers, I will be trying this as I can see the arguments for but cant see the argument against. fuels are being changed and messed around that much because our euro friends say we must, Bio fuel as it increases in % in our fuel will rot our fuel system and engines from the inside out starting with the oldest design engines, the more they mess with the fuel the less lubricant it ends up with. so as its my motor and if I break it I will fix it so I will give it a bash, so far Ive found 5L of mineral 2 stroke oil for £16.95 delivered, does anyone know of a cheaper supply of it. 



#6 jeebowhite

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Posted 21 October 2013 - 08:45 PM

I would be willing to try it once or twice if it would be of benefit... Might keep an eye on it.

#7 FOCA

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Posted 21 October 2013 - 11:30 PM

Oh where to start -

 

Diesel used to have a high sulphor content, this was changed around 2007, and the sulphor greatly reduced, after 2007 (up till today, and the forseeable future) bio-diesel was added to the diesel - a minumum of 5% to 7%, the bio-diesel acts as a lubricant (replacing the "high" sulphor in the diesel)

 

some diesel engines built after 1998 and before 2007 (common rail) do not "like" modern low sulphor diesel, and wear out quicker than they would with old-style diesel, a perfect example of this is the mk3 Mondeo (2.0 + 2.2L) diesel engine, when it was released in 1999/2000, it was not designed for the low-sulphor diesel pump diesel sold to the public after 2007 (Delphi injectors)

 

Modern diesel engines made after 2007 are designed to run on low sulphor, modern diesel, without additives, the bio-diesel should have sufficient  lubrication

 

 

Much older, non-common rail diesels should run well on almost anything (like my Mondeo 2.0 TDDI, with its vp44 Bosch pump- it can (and does) run on vegatable oil, and has no problem with various fuels)

 

The in-between common rail (approx 1998-2007) engines may benifit from additional lubrication, but you must be very careful -

 

1 - 2-stroke oil was designed to run in 2-STROKE PETROL engines not 4-stroke diesel engines

 

2 -    there are 3 types of 2-stroke oil, Mineral based, Synthetic, And Semi Synthetic 

 

3 -  A  - even in a 2-stroke petrol engine, if you change the type of 2-stroke oil, you must strip the engine down, clean it out and rebuild it with the new type of oil, (different types cannot be mixed) or it can "gunge up" causing the (2 stroke petrol) engine to sieze - the 2-stroke petrol engine runs on petrol,

 

3 -  B  - there is no way of telling how any of those 3 types of 2-stroke oil will mix with diesel/ the bio-diesel in modern diesel fuel or how it will react inside the combustion chamber   

 

4 -  2 stroke oil is expensive and costs a lot more than diesel (litre for litre) by adding it you may,  at best, just be adding to the cost of your tank of fuel, and at worst, potentially causing harm (if you don't do your research)

 

5 -  A -  2-stroke oil will not make diesel engine combustion chambers cleaner - its more likely to make it dirtier, as the 2-stroke oil produces ash/ smoke soot when it burns,

 

 5 - B  - Blanking the EGR and diverting the crancase breather will keep the inlet manifold / inletts/ inlet valves clean (whatever the fuel) having the engine set up / serviced/ tuned so it does not produce a lot of smoke and driving it harder will help to keep it cleaner (whether you are running diesel/ veg oil etc)

 

© - If you really want to clean the inside of your engine - water and methanol injection really keeps diesel engines' combustion chambers clean  (apparently), - its like steam cleaning the inside of the engine - adds a bit more power too!   

 

If you really must use (petrol) 2-stroke oil on your 4-stroke diesel it i would do some research/ test the brand of 2-stroke oil you are going to use to see that it mixes with (modern) diesel, and not change brands / types, 

 

Ive been running my Mondeo Mk3 TDDI on pure (clean) veg oil/ veg oil diesel mix/ diesel  for several years now 



#8 georgen

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Posted 22 October 2013 - 02:30 PM

Foca I agree with some but not all above points ;) , Bio diesel addition does increase the lubricating properties of low sulphur diesel, but it has its down sides too, it acts the same as brake fluid as it absorbs water which in turn will corrode fuel systems and engines, it also hates certain types of rubber which are present in older cars. It also has a shelf life, in the short run has better lubricating qualities but in the long run with the water it absorbs and the corrosion it causes will cause increased wear.

Where water injection is good on a highly tuned motor that prevents pre detonation when running high boosts and altering you timing to get the most power, water in your fuel will pit your pistons on a standard engine but you are correct on how clean it will keep pistons and combustion chambers.

the Bio fuel argument will go on for a long time yet, but still to this day car manufacturers will not give a warranty on a car that runs over certain % amount of bio fuel in its fuel, certain ones differ but if they dont trust it why should we.

On the 2t oil, it burns hotter and cleaner than diesel alone in the mix its introduced so you end up with less soot as combustion is more thorough and so more efficient, so less emissions and less soot on vehicles with DPF or not, After all the hotter you get an diesel before test the better chance you have of passing emission test, and since its the only lubricant a two stroke engine has for the big end, small end, piston and rings running at the high rpm they run at, its lubrication properties are pretty well proved.

I agree you shouldn't mix between the 3 types of 2T oil and stick to what you start with so I am going for the cheapest I can find and at 200 parts diesel to 1 part 2T oil or in other words 300ml of 2T to 60 litres of fuel have made a decision that personally I think wont harm my engine.

As I said before its my choice and I would not expect anyone to run it without doing there homework and weighing the risks up for themselves.  



#9 jimmygixer

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Posted 22 October 2013 - 03:31 PM

Yes the fact that the 2T oil burns hotter and cleaner than the Diesel was why i thought it would be cleaner and not cause a increase in gumming & soot. I used to use alot of 2T oil in the past with the motorbikes, but i would never use anything but the best fully synthetic stuff and always the same stuff never mixing. So the mineral must of been invented for us diesel boys to mess about with coz it only blew up the bike engines really quickly as it was the only lubricant for the whole engine and alot of people skimped on it, but fine for the diesel me thinks.

2T oil is expensive enough, even the mineral stuff when you consider you are just burning it constantly, but 90% off injector cleaner isn't cheap and usually crap made sound good.

It works out for me about an extra 83p per full tank, not alot if it brings most of the advantages it's meant to, especially for extra reduced wear on those pricey pumps and injectors etc.It might give it that hint of 2 stroke smell also hopefully lol.

Iv'e 5l ordered of Comma mineral low ash 2T, will report back my findings along the way.



#10 gopacic

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Posted 22 October 2013 - 06:57 PM

What about 1.8tdci then? Is it better to use Euro4 diesel with more sulphur or Euro5 with less? Will injectors become dirty earlier with more sulphur?



#11 artscot79

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Posted 23 October 2013 - 03:14 AM

Its worth noting this process was used on older engines from the early 90s as the diesel then had more lubricating properties nowadays tge engines are designed to run on the modern diesel so the reality is it will do nothing for the car it also can't be used with dpfs or catalysts as it clogs them up due to increased sulphur

#12 salsheikh

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Posted 23 October 2013 - 12:40 PM

i've been regularly adding 2 stroke to my 1.8 tdci for around a year now and have not noticed anything bad. i do feel that the engine is quieter on start up and have not had to top up my oil either.

adding more than 200 ml has not made any difference in my opinion.

 

i use 2 stroke castrol - tesco's had it on offer at 99p for a 1ltr bottle so bought the lot - (only 6 bottles available)



#13 jimmygixer

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Posted 24 October 2013 - 12:16 AM

Its worth noting this process was used on older engines from the early 90s as the diesel then had more lubricating properties nowadays tge engines are designed to run on the modern diesel so the reality is it will do nothing for the car it also can't be used with dpfs or catalysts as it clogs them up due to increased sulphur

The more modern cars designed for the newer fuels do so by manufacturing some of the newer moving parts with special coatings / surfaces. Sort of like a non stick coating on say a frying pan vs the old way of having more oil and no coating is the best way to describe it. But as they say, there's no replacement for lube lol, with or without special surfaces when it comes to friction, wear and heat prevention. 

So yes older cars will have a bigger benefit, but even the new ones surely cant be worse off with a bit of extra lubrication. Except for the possible dpfs / cats problem.

Manufactures have to work to forced environmental standards, not whats best for your car.



#14 georgen

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Posted 24 October 2013 - 06:42 PM

Well my oil arrived and has being added, can definitely tell its quieter already, only being around the doors about 4-5 miles so far though, so cant feedback on anything else.  



#15 jimmygixer

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Posted 27 October 2013 - 04:31 PM

Just added to a full tank yesterday also. It's definitely running a bit quieter within a few miles so far. :)



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