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Getting To Temperature


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#1 Aldoo

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Posted 27 October 2013 - 05:03 PM

Hi
for as long as I remember my 1.8 tdci has taken ages for the temperature dial to go up to working temp(just below half on the dial on mine)
as id never drove a car similar to it I didn't know if it was normal so did nothing

but I've just noticed that the blowers are actually blowing warm air within about 2mile(5 mins-ish) but it still reads that its not even started warming.

I can sometimes go to work 12 miles away and the dial has barely even moved!!

is this normal?? :wacko:

 

cheers!
 



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#2 shamus1

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Posted 27 October 2013 - 05:33 PM

Hi
for as long as I remember my 1.8 tdci has taken ages for the temperature dial to go up to working temp(just below half on the dial on mine)
as id never drove a car similar to it I didn't know if it was normal so did nothing

but I've just noticed that the blowers are actually blowing warm air within about 2mile(5 mins-ish) but it still reads that its not even started warming.

I can sometimes go to work 12 miles away and the dial has barely even moved!!

is this normal?? :wacko:

 

cheers!
 my 2.0 tdci is exactly the same driven sensibly but if I boot it it will warm up quicker.



#3 btmaldon

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Posted 27 October 2013 - 06:15 PM

I'm pretty sure its not normal. All my Petrol Focus's have reached normal temperature within 1 mile. May be a little different with a diesel but I wouldn't have thought that much. You may just have a lazy thermostat. Its not a major issue but you may loose out on some fuel efficiency.



#4 jamesm182

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Posted 27 October 2013 - 06:18 PM

I think it's a diesel thing isn't it?



#5 higgsy

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Posted 27 October 2013 - 06:23 PM

Diesel thing for sure. My 1.6 focus is at full temp by the end of my street pretty much. My old 1.3 cdti corsa never got warm in the winter the needle never moved in my 5 mile journey to work. One of the reasons diesels are more economical as with petrols a lot of the energy is lost/wasted with the heat which is a by product of the combustion process.

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#6 Captain Haddock

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Posted 27 October 2013 - 06:41 PM

Go to Ford Etis, click on the 'Vehicle' tab, bung your registration number in the left hand box and click 'Search'.

 

Assuming you get a 'Vehicle Summary' page back then click on the 'There are more minor features for this vehicle, click to expand this list' link under 'Minor Features' to expand the list.

 

Look down the list and see if you have 'With Supplemental Air Heater' displayed then your car's heater has an electric ceramic heating element that's used to heat the cabin air if the engine hasn't reached normal operating temperature and outside air temperature is less than +10C.

 

At least I think it's 10C as mine seems to come on around that point and it sure makes the now colder pre-dawn mornings at lot more tolerable.



#7 artscot79

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Posted 27 October 2013 - 08:07 PM

diesels run cooler far cooler than petrols and take a lot longer to heat up in cold weather thats why trucks have covers to block the radiator and increse the engine temp quickly the dial on the dash shows coolant temperature not the engine temperature so until the coolant has gone through the engine bypassing the rad and back to the expansion bottle and so on when it gets warm you get a reading using the fans takes heat from the engine so in cold weather the coolant may never go through the rad



#8 btmaldon

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Posted 27 October 2013 - 09:22 PM

Just goes to show how little I know about diesels.



#9 artscot79

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Posted 28 October 2013 - 09:38 AM

Ita the same process for petrol and diesel but as any petrol owner knows when its 5 degrees it takes a bit longer to get up to temp diesels just run cooler so they on short trips may never really warm up thats why taxis sit with the engine running all the time

#10 mjt

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Posted 28 October 2013 - 10:04 AM

I think there's an additional reason. To cope with the higher compression there's more metal in the block and particularly the head which is why a diesel lump is heavier than a petrol. Therefore there's a greater volume of metal to heat up and a bit more thermal resistance between combustion chamber and coolant.



#11 Aldoo

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Posted 28 October 2013 - 01:26 PM

That's great guys, thanks :)
I thought it must be normal as it still drives lovely

I might cover the radiator for winter now. I know my mate did on his merc van last year, said it warmed up quicker but its running temperature was no higher

Cheers

#12 shamus1

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Posted 28 October 2013 - 05:42 PM

I did drive a Peugeot 308 1.6 hdi before my focus and bought a genuine Peugeot cover that clicked in the bottom bumper grille for the winter,worked a treat for warming car up quicker,dont think ford did one.



#13 artscot79

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Posted 28 October 2013 - 05:58 PM

On the mk2 on tge lower grills it does look like theres tabs for some sort of plastic cover to fit on

#14 FOCA

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Posted 28 October 2013 - 08:26 PM

That's great guys, thanks :)
I thought it must be normal as it still drives lovely

I might cover the radiator for winter now. I know my mate did on his merc van last year, said it warmed up quicker but its running temperature was no higher

Cheers

When you start your engine the mechanical pump starts running, the coolant (water) goes into the block at the pump and out at the head, where it can go 2 ways - before the thermostat opens it does not go through the radiator and goes to the heater, on the mondeo there is an electric heater to heat the water before it gets to the heater (this is to warm the water quicker and so you get heat from the heater quicker) the water then gets returned to the pump, where it goes round again 

 

This continues (the water circulates through the block, heater then back to the pump, and does not go through the radiator) untill the engine warms up  

 

when the operating temp is reached - the thermostat opens - this diverts the water through the radiator which makes the temprature drop - which closes the thermostat - so the water is circulated and the thermostat opens and closes to maintain the temprature  

 

now, if it is a really cold day and you are taking a lot of heat out of the system the thermostat may not open (and the water circulate through the radiator) at all - if the temp does not reach the thermostat opening temp - so in this case covering the radiator would make hardly any difference at all (depends on the engine/ conditions) - apart from effectively disabling the system when the thermostat opens with potential for the system to overheat - half - covering the radiator may be safer than completely covering it

 

As others have said, these diesels do take quite a bit of warming up but keeping the heater off for a bit longer and running the fan at a lower speed/ running the heater at a lower temp can help a lot, (or you are liable to take all the heat out of the system) and running the engine a bit harder (within reason, of course)      

 

the temp gauge on the dash is connected to the temp sender on the head (the metal on the head, not the water)- the ECU also uses this for the engine temp - it (normally) starts at 40 degrees C - the water may heat up a bit/ you may get a little heat out of the heater  before the gauge moves



#15 artscot79

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Posted 29 October 2013 - 11:10 AM

the temp gauge on the dash is connected to the temp sender on the
head (the metal on the head, not the water)- the ECU also uses this for
the engine temp - it (normally) starts at 40 degrees C - the water may
heat up a bit/ you may get a little heat out of the heater  before the
gauge moves

 

not entirely true it depend wether you have a cht sensor coolant sensor or both some fords have both some only have the cht i belive the 1.8 diesel has the cht only as far as ford are concerned all petrols have both a cht sensor and a coolant sensor either way both do the same job the issue is its just a rough gauge if you do the dash test you will get the cht temp say 120 for example but the gauge will show 80 degrees there s  a 40 degree variance between the head temp and coolant but the gauge on the dash shows the coolant temp not the engine temperature thats in the dash test menu thats why the engine can be warm but the gauge not show that as its the coolants temperature that increases the gauge  A basic description of the sensor is that it is a thermistor device
in which resistance changes with temperature. As the temperature
increases the resistance decreases causing a voltage drop to occur on
the 5 volts signal wire. The PCM receives the various voltage signals
and equates it to a temperature value. All sounds like a pretty standard
sensor. That is until you actually use Ford’s material to diagnose
sensor fault issues. There you will find the following description:

Figure%203%285%29.jpg


“On applications that do not use an engine coolant temperature (ECT)
sensor, the CHT sensor is used to determine the engine coolant
temperature. To cover the entire temperature range of both the CHT and
ECT sensors, the PCM has a dual switching resistor circuit on the CHT
input (5 volt line). A graph (Figure 3) showing temperature switching
from the “COLD END” to the “HOT END” line, with increasing temperature
and back with decreasing temperature is included. Note the temperature
to voltage “OVERLAP ZONE.” Within this zone it is possible to have
either a “COLD END” or HOT END” voltage at the same temperature. For
example, at 90°C (194°F) the voltage could read either 0.060 volt or
3.71 volts (Figure 4).”

 

also from the repair manual

The temperature gauge measures the temperature of your car’s engine
coolant. It is important to take note of this gauge because it will tell
you if your engine is overheating this happens when the temperature of the coolant gets too high and cannot effectively cool the engine anymore so the red zone basically means the coolant has got to the point where it is boiling. Typically, the gauge should read “cold” when you start the car and get warmer as you drive.

.



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