New Rules On Dpf Removal Starting Feb 2014

[mixmasterlooney]

Indeed emissions do stay fixed on petrols that's true but we are on about diesels and the cat is for emission the dpf is for particle/smoke emissions but not the same gases as a cat. No removal of parts allowed during an mot, certainly no diagnostic tools allowed. Mot fail regarding dashboard lights are only related to safety eg. Seatbelts, abs, eps. Not engine faults, glow plugs, dpf regen lights.

I'd like to see the tester fail a car mot based on a none vosa test such as screwdriver tapping on dpf... he sounds like he's full of it. No offence btw mate :D

A bad cat on a petrol smells awful a none dpf has no difference in smell.

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[wase16ll]

the test hasnt been set yet as the announcement has only just been made.

but something your all forgetting...dpf's lead to cheaper road tax, if you think for one minute that the government is unaware that dpf removal is becoming more and more popular, therefore more and more people are underpaying the yearly charge, yet will sit there and think there is nothing they can do about this beyond a visual test....your kidding yourselves.

ive no idea what the procedure will be when the change is applied, but the recommendations will go beyond visual sooner or later, especially when a simple plug in will tell the tester all they need to know...i believe that the need for that tester will delay that coming in from the beginning as garages will be required to invest in approved equipment...

we are talking about complying to european law that has over the years has become more and more strict, exactly why DPF was brought about in the first place.

think removing is risking your wallet, sooner or later it will come....(though i dont blame anyone for wanting rid of it)

[dreadz]

So the test hadn't been set yet and your announcing how they're going to test??? Ummm k... let's leave it there till something concrete comes out eh.

[markw96]

Yawn

[wase16ll]

vosa will be aware of this long before you or i

its your choice, but if they cover the angles which will be very simple a lot of people will be moaning about being out of pocket.

can be no argument against it either as its illegal anyway.

the plus side is it will force the makers to vastly improve the system as it will seriously affect sales of the diesel car over time

[jg321]

can be no argument against it either as its illegal anyway.

+1

[Stoney871]

It is coming and there's nothing anyone can do about it.

diesel-particulate-filters-guidance.pdf

[dreadz]

I agree that there is no argument it's illegal.. But let's just see what actually happens regarding test.. Rather than saying I've seen this or he's said this.. Unless your going to post hard evidence, then it's all speculation! All that will happen is people will replace at mot a dpf with the filter.. Then after test is done replace the part.. Like they do now with systems that require a Cat.

[artscot79]

you cant just whack a dpf back in for an mot it doesnt work that way without the ecu being rechanged to regen again all he will tell me is the smoke test for 2010 cars onwards will be 0.5/m meaning if no dpf is fitted you wont pass no matter what for older cars he doesnt know till january if those amounts will be dropped they will also when the car goes in get info from vosa which they do anyway showing previous advisories to check included will be if it has a dpf and the location, the dpf will be checked for welds and seams which all removed dpfs will have if the dpf sounds hollow simply by tapping it it will be failed you can argue its there the tester then tells you you have to prove it they arent stupid they are well aware of the tricks since most mot stations used to do the removal anyway straight through pipes are a fail and petrol straight through pipes will be a fail its not confirmed but the egr valve may also have to be visually checked for blanking plates etc all full details will come in january but hes stated from what they know so far most cars will fail in fact its expected for spates of cars vans etc to fail the rules were ammended by vosa initially it was to be a visual check however the firms doing the delete explained how they did it and how it wouldnt be checked so all that has been added in now the fact is if the tester fails the car youll have to prove you have the dpf end of story

its stated that no matter what company says it or how much they claim the removal is legal it is not and these companies are soon to face prosecution i also know 2 car dealers who now check all diesel trade ins for dpf tampering before accepting them as a trade in as they are not wanting the legal issues with selling a car that has had the dpf removed and fails an mot for it all dpf removed cars are not legal for road use and all dpf removals are modifications which must be told to youre insurance so trust me when they take the car away after an accident they will check the dpf and if it isnt there you will never see a penny of youre money as said each to there own do what you want just be aware of the consequences this new mot rule now states if it had it it must be there no loop holes anymore so now overly loud exhausts are a fail dpf and decats are a fail and rumour is 2015 will bring even more the fact is the car companies are losing a fortune and have probably lobbied to get it sorted they want theyre money and the government wants boy racers off the road as my mate said its not the end

[Ffoxy]

Diesel cars are good only for high mileage long journey professional users in these days of emissions cleanliness. I ditched diesel because of this DPF issue, my mileage profile didn't warrant a diesel anymore. Suck it up I say and choose your car type more logically or you will feel the pain of ever increasing legislation!

[dreadz]

So what your saying is that if the car cannot regen then it will fail? I can leave dpf in place with ECU modded and it should still run OK just won't regen. Should be no problem running for an an hour while testing

[dreadz]

Also does it not mean that people will get smarter and weld along seams and design something to fit inside to detract from the empty noise? That's what I would do.

Mine is 2007 model ... hoping they don't tinker too much!!so for new cars it doesn't bother me.. Never buy another diesel with dpf in future.

[mixmasterlooney]

For sure there is no argument its illegal. However on the topic of mot I don't buy any of that. If a car has not built up soot it won't regen. No where does it say anything about forcing regen. It clearly says cars will be checked if its fitted. Fiited being the key word here. Its not a check for performance of how well the dpf is working or if it's working at all.

Alot of companies don't remove dpf because they are trying to avoid repair bills its actually because of theft. Vans and lorrys are major targets for dpf theft its easy enough for someone to crawl under it and remove it. Dpf on large vehicles such as vans and trucks is worth alot of money for the valuable scrap metals inside. Some people mod vans and trucks to protect the dpf from theft and this often involves metal plates being welded over the dpf in this case the mot tester cannot verify if a dpf is fitted or not.

The vosa article clearly says new rules for checking if its fitted nothing more nothing less.

About the smoke test... The article from vosa makes no mention at all about any changes to the smoke test although the current rules for smoke test can be done two ways. A visual test or with equipment and it's only a fail for excessive smoke. If the tester can clearly see there is a huge cloud of black smoke everytime the engine is reved there is no need for equipment to be used and in this case anyways they give the car a long rev to see if it clears up. ( witness this myself) the purpose of the smoke test is to ensure it isn't dangerous on the road potentially blinding people. It is not about emission and I will say it again diesel cars are not tested for emission the smoke test is not about emission. It cannot be made any more clearer than that.

All this stuff about force regen n tapping on the dpf is pointless. Vosa rules states new checks to verify a dpf is fitted. Nothing more.

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[mixmasterlooney]

Btw I would like to see that tester tap on the dpf on my car fitted behind the engine enclosed under the under tray. You can barely see it on the 1.6tdci mk2.5. I would personally request a viewing of mot from your tester set up my tripod n see him go at my car with a screwdriver behind the engine. Yeah right. That guy isn't fooling me sorry buddy

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[artscot79]

what can i say they will make sure its fitted theyve stated that to the testers the info is only what has been supplied thus far and the intention is to drive the dpf removal companies out of business i know why people do it trust me its the reason ide never buy a diesel what vosa have said is only to warn they will not give full details until the testers get it but the mot tester has said with what they know thus far if it isnt fitted theres a high chance 90 percent that a car from 2010 on will fail if its not fitted he cant say about older diesels but its been made clear by the government via vosa they will stop it i dont agree with it ive seen dpf replacement prices but you have to look at the wider picture all manufacturers expect to make money from replacement and eloys fluid top ups etc that has dwindled rapidly as dpfs are removed as a result the dpf and eloys fluid manufacturers lose out were talking billions even the army removed there dpfs and as of 2015 they will be tested for its presence as a warning now to get them as they should be its about money forget leaglity or environment and the government has been pressurised to stop it as said they are fully aware of all methods used to remove a dpf and this will be added into the new proceedures instead of what it was originally to be a visual check thats been scrapped doesnt bother me who listens or not dont say you werent warned when the car may get a fail and the expense of having a dpf added back on hits you thats all im saying but watch this space

look at where we are going guys over loud exhausts will be failed dpf removal a fail straight through pipes a fail decats a fail talk of egr blanking being a fail and theres more planned testers are seeking conformation but at present it suggests they must check the dpf if behind an engine tray then its assumed but not clarified yet that the tray will have to be removed to do this the testers themselves are asking this question in january all details will be made available but so far if its behind the tray then the tray will be removed to check you forget the testers decision is final no argument theres only an appeal process and to appeal you have to prove the dpf is fitted but the testers i can assure you are rubbing there hands in glee dpf replacement costs re mot costs

[artscot79]

Commenting on the announcement, Simon Birkett, Founder and Director
of Clean Air in London, said: “This is excellent news that should help
protect public health and honest motorists worried about buying a
second-hand diesel vehicle that might be illegal to drive.

the Minister’s strong words are backed by an
effective MOT test not a simple visual check that might fail to spot
the common practice of replacing diesel particulate filters with shiny
but empty casings.”

"the loophole in the law is now closed no company can offer to do this and claim it is legal" we are warning the public now........

and as said dealers and garages will now test cars for trade in or sale to ensure the dpf is fitted as its illegal for them to sell them as of feb 2014 without the dpf i worked in a garage and i can assure you hes bricking it and off loading his diesels at cheap prices not that he has many or some are having the mot early so its got at least a year after sale just to be sure

[mixmasterlooney]

Arthur I mean no disrespect mate and I hope you don't take this as a persobal attack or anything buddy

The mot has never allowed the removal of any parts. Vosa always announced plans well in advance at least a year what their intended plans are to limit the knock on affect the changes will cause to motorists and garage to meet the standards for such test. Unless vosa says otherwise anything else is invalid. No minister no tester no ones opinion carry any weight other than the clear info vosa issue. (other than the police of course)

This is my take on it. I think there will be changes relating to where the dpf is fitted so it can be acessed but safe from theft and to disallow plates welded on or over the dpf.

It's like stretched tyres it too falls under the same law and makes it illegal but it's mot safe aslong all wheels on the same axle are the same size.

The construction and use act however makes it illegal for installing the incorrect size tyre onto a larger rim it isn't designed for.

Under the construction and use acts its illegal to use a fork to eat soup because a fork was not designed for such use lol

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[Incontro]

Since there seems to be two threads on this matter, I will post my reply from the other thread:

I'm sure plenty won't agree with me (puts on flame-proof suit), but this is good news in my opinion. I (and I'm sure most people) don't want to breathe carcinogenic particulates if it can be avoided. On the other hand, I don't really care about CO2.

[wase16ll]

VOSA are about to be merged with DVLA (in January i believe)

although they have always had direct links to the government, once that merger happens then they will actually be classed as a government body.

said it before, your all forgetting the reasons DPF's came about in the first place, to comply with European legislation in particular with cleaning up the Cities.

everyone is aware of the companies offering DPF removals, a market that has grown substantially in last 18mths, this was never going to continue to happen under the radar...everyone is aware that the test for fitment of DPF goes beyond the visual check of a visual casing.

this more stringent test may very well not happen from Febuary, but you can almost guarantee that methods of testing for positive fitment are being investigated, just because 'invasive testing' is/has never been allowed, does not mean it never will...

you dont need to enforce regen to confirm fitment of full system...live data is all you will ever need...so in my opinion, you will shortly see an extra piece of equipment required to carry out test, that will involve a simple connection to diag socket.

the drive to lower emissions is ongoing, the uk risks sanctions/fines etc if Cities arent cleaned up beyond whatever the set level by set time...knowing DPF makes significant difference in these levels, do you honestly think the governments will allow this practice to continue with hands tied behind there back?

your also confusing emission tests with what the DPF is actually doing...its there to remove the harmful particles from within those gasses that naturally occur in diesel burners, not to lower the emissions !Removed!'......

.the emissions are dictated by the engine/engine managment, as time progresses, diesel engines are burning cleaner and cleaner...in London for eg..millions were invested in retro fitting DPF to the older London busses as it was cheaper than to replace those busses to the latest cleaner ones in one foul swoop, the older will get phased out....legislation was brought in about 2yrs ago to fine anyone driving, within the M25, commercial diesel vehicles, including vans..at huge expense to the owners that lived within that region (including me) to replace perfectly good vans with ones that will comply with that legislation..

a perfect example there of 'whatever the cost, this is going to happen people'

this WILL sooner or later go way beyond a visual check..its that simple

[dreadz]

well obviously it will go beyond a visual check..but what was being stated was that this regen etc etc is happening from Feb next year!! based on info that may or may not be correct and passed 2nd hand.

i for one am not really concerned. there will always be ways around it...be it emulators,removal etc etc. people said you cant crack chip and pin..well its been cracked,hacked, many other things have been cracked,emulated.

i say let the games begin :P

[wase16ll]

it IS happening from next February, what is in doubt is how far that test will go at that time....

VOSA will have been working on this for, at the least, weeks before the public got wind of it...i have no doubt there are a number of testers out there that have been given a heads up via the regular visits they get from VOSA reps, but untill the i's have been dotted and the t's crossed, no one is in the know.

if the procedure had already been decided, testers will already have all been notified via the MOT computerised network and the VOSA site updated the moment the announcment was made public.

VOSA quite clearly states on their site that updates on this new legislation will be forthcoming.

you can also expect that procedure to be changed/adapted as time goes on...like i said, chances are that garages will need to equip themselves which will always be given time to do so within an extended period...so chances are, the initial test in Feb wont go much beyond visual, its the following months you really need to watch out for.

this is not only a uk government/vosa drive, there will be increasing pressure fom many other powerful bodies to really tighten loopholes...including europe, health depts in all their guises and the car manufacturers themselves.

knowing VOSA as i do, i wouldnt be in the least bit suprised if they leave a gaping hole big enough for a supertanker to sail through...but that pressure might make a big difference this time especially as i said, they are about to become merged into a very powerful body.

[footfistart]

What about you take your car to a specialist company who remove them and do everything else ie remaps sevicing and all of that and you get the car mot'd there only and no where else? If they know it will fail an mot and if they do it all on the same site then what's the problem. If they know it's a fail then why would they do it in the first place?

[mixmasterlooney]

you can also expect that procedure to be changed/adapted as time goes on...like i said, chances are that garages will need to equip themselves which will always be given time to do so within an extended period...so chances are, the initial test in Feb wont go much beyond visual, its the following months you really need to watch out for.

Exactly my thought, feb is too soon for tester to equip them self in order to meet the standards. I 100% agree in the future it will be tested and be very hard to by pass but i don't agree in feb about any equipment testing of emissions and all that jazz

[dreadz]

agree with above

[wase16ll]

the practice is illegal already, any company that chooses to knowingly pass a non complient car is risking a hell of a lot more than the few hundred quid they will earn from doing it...VOSA arent stupid and will be watching scams like that with a very eagle eye.

not sure what will happen with regards the law of offering the service, doubt very much a blind eye will continue to be turned though..but thats not VOSA matters

i really dont have a problem wih people doing this to their car, you have to lay the blame on flawed technology otherwise it wouldnt be so rife..there will always be people finding ways round it, good luck to them, but arts is correct, if ever you come to sell the car with system tampered with in whatever way, then your leaving yourself wide open for trouble.

the technology will improve, diesel engines are burning cleaner and cleaner all the time, the euro6 leg kicks in soon which will really force car manufacturers to get things right...cleaner the burn, the less problems you will get with a dpf