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New Rules On Dpf Removal Starting Feb 2014


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#76 hillesleyhenry

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Posted 12 December 2013 - 05:11 PM

I wish you luck with it! I truly hope that the DPF removal service is no longer dead in the water (far too many troubles to overcome!) but never the less, I would hope that it also allows you to pass the MOT.

Its one of those things, until I hear success stories of car vs new MOT, I don't want to advise anyone to look into DPF removal as I dont want to land them a whopper of a bill in February :P


True and I understand that, thinking about it I am still unsure about getting it done especially as I'm doing it for performance/economy, but it puts a glimmer of hope in that if done professionally it may well be undetectable for a long long time.


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#77 artscot79

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Posted 12 December 2013 - 07:27 PM

rubbish is what the guys talking as of feb they will be fined and right now some companies are already being fined for offering this service i too spoke to a large company in scotland about the same thing and this was the reply.

 

thankyou for youre enquiry regarding diesel particulate filter removal at present the loophole allows us to remove this for you... however we have been informed that as of january 2014 we may be pursued by the courts for doing so, and as a result from december 15th 2013 we will suspend all removals on any vehicle made from january 2008 onwards pre 2008 vehicles should be okay as they have different emission requirements and these are far higher than newer cars  to those which have been booked in all customers are advised of the potential pit falls and even resaleability issues of their vehicle

we will offer no guarantee or assurances that the car is road legal or that it would pass an mot we will offer no guarantee on the work carried out .The legal issues involved are varied and difficult and are said to now result in a penalty or fine for companies advertising such services as you can understand we will no longer if this is the case be doing this sort of repair and upgrade to post 2008 vehicles.

 

thankyou for youre enquiry

 

when asked about the check he stated ......the details are scarce however from what we have been lead to believe by our own mot inspectors the check will not just be a visual check and all suggestions lead to this conclusion as for the enquiry regarding removal of panels underneath the car again our own inspectors have stated that at present on some cars this will have to be the case in order to gain access to the filter even assuming it was visual, again the inspector must see the filter which will necessitate removal of some underbody panels it is clear to the inspector he will be informed of the emission standard euro 6  and the location of the dpf filter prior to the test taking place. we cannot confirm or deny any chance of emission tests being put in place for diesel cars with dpfs fitted we have done various enquiries ourselves and a spokesman from the Department for Transport told us that anyone that
has had the filter removed, will now have to a new one put back on their
car in order to pass their next MOT test.

 

now read carefully

 

Roads Minister Robert Goodwill said:
“I am very concerned that vehicles are being modified in a way that is clearly detrimental to people’s
health and undoes the hard work car manufacturers have taken to improve emissions standards. It has
become apparent the government had to intervene to clarify the position on particulate filter removal
given the unacceptable negative impact on air quality.
This change to the MOT tests makes it clear
if you have this filter removed from your car it will
fail the test.
Simon Birkett, Founder and Director of Clean Air in London, said:
“This is excellent news that should
help protect public health and honest motorists worried about buying a second-hand diesel vehicle that might be illegal to drive.
the Ministers strong words are backed by an effective MOT test not a simple visual check that might
fail to spot the common practice of replacing diesel particulate filters with
shiny but empty casings.“The Government’s announcement
is also a timely reminder of the importance of fully operational
diesel particulate filters and emissions control systems
 
The final Trilogue meeting will meet next Monday to ensure the new
regulation of the European Parliament and of the Council on periodic
roadworthiness tests for motor vehicles and their trailers includes the
effective, independent and periodic tailpipe testing of oxides of nitrogen (petrol and diesel vehicles) and particulates (diesel
vehicles only).
“Europe should keep its current legislation rather than approve a new regime that would weaken again emission systems checks.

 

i think those who made the rules make it clear  

 

panels will likely be removed the check is not visual and tail pipe emission checks are coming for diesel cars with dpfs fitted



#78 wase16ll

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Posted 12 December 2013 - 10:02 PM

henry

can only back up what arts has said

the company you got the info from is no more wiser than anybody else with regards to how this test will be performed, simply because vosa havent released the full info yet.

as for the obd...now im no expert on dpf, but any vehicle with dpf will have info on dpf soot level via the diagnostics, a removed cat will show 0%, its not rocket science how that is so...just one eg of looking into dpf via obd

there is no guarantee that obd is how this will be tested, as arts suggested, an emission test machine will be a far easier method to cover all vehicles....this wont happen overnight but it will come in the not too distant future.

 

if you go ahead with this, see if their willing to put money where their mouth is, ask for written guarantees or huge discounts on refitting system etc....they currently have a vested interest in removal, your call mate but i wouldnt just take their word as gospel



#79 jg321

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Posted 12 December 2013 - 10:31 PM

My take on this:

 

Diesels with a DPF produce no/negligible soot. You can see this by looking at the exhaust of a DPF-equipped diesel and comparing to a non-DPF one. Immediately obvious. As such, if they adapt the smoke test to look for soot (not just accumulated, but actually smoke being produced while the engine is running), and find it on a car that is meant to be DPF-equipped, then surely that indicates either no DPF or faulty DPF, and therefore fail?

 

All of the above could be done as a "visual check". I agree, the OBD sounds way too complicated/unlikely in my opinion, at least for the early stages.

 

If they do just check for the canister, I'd be disappointed. If diesels are kicking out all this rubbish which is bad for us, and something can be done but people are bypassing it, and getting away with it, it's a bad state of affairs.

 

The biggest issue is mis-selling. I went into buying a DPF-equipped diesel eyes open. I don't do any of the nonsense I hear about; it rarely goes above 2K RPM, put it in 5th on the motorway as soon as sensible, gets used on short journeys all the time (used to not go on the motorway for weeks at a time, getting me to and from work every weekday with stop/start 10 min journeys each way). Never had a single issue with the DPF in over 20,000 miles. Had the Eolys fluid topped up at 37,500, cost me £100 which I've easily saved in tax. From what I gather, needn't have got the fluid topped up so early, as I've seen reports of people not topping up until 50/60K. Not worth the risk with the EML and extra charge for "diagnostics" though IMO.

 

I acknowledge that people have issues with these things, but there must be another issue that'd otherwise cause excessive smoke, but is instead blocking the DPF, or the car is just wrong for the types of journeys they do. As I said, probably been mis-sold.



#80 hillesleyhenry

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Posted 13 December 2013 - 04:32 PM

Thanks for the info guys. Think i may just go with a remap then. Will be a lot cheaper and my DPF is fine ATM and I think it will be ok for a long time as I do mostly motorway miles (30-35 a day) so it gets up to temp easily. :)


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#81 south_bound

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Posted 18 December 2013 - 09:33 PM

They're called Avon tuning and they're in the south west area, in a place called Thornbury close to Bristol. They are on Facebook & they have pictures of every vehicle they have worked on. Just search for 'avon tuning'


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Just had the job done at Avon Tuning - the diagnostics showed a number of error codes relating to the dpf as the problem, and some of the sensor tubes were burned through due to the heat generated during the regen process.  It seems this was causing a bug which made it nearly continuously regen!  The dpf itself was fully clogged up when we had a look inside.

 

Anyway, I would recommend these guys to do this work, and I got a remap at the same time.  The car now drives great and I can really feel the difference, plus the mpg values have improved dramatically.  Went to get the MOT done today and no issues.  The tester didn't go into any details on the new rules but basically said that they wouldn't change anything in the way he does the test.  I'm not worried about it and will post next year when this same car will be tested to the new rules.



#82 exponential

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Posted 18 December 2013 - 10:02 PM

Excellent south-bound! :)

 

I'm having it done in January at a place in Stockport called Unicorn Motor Developments.

 

They have an excellent track record and, after a phone conversation with the remapper, I know I will be looked after!

 

My DPF is also causing me a LOT of problems and after using the dashboard trick, I now know that it continuously wants to regen all the time so I suspect a fully clogged unit too.

 

My friend is an MOT tester so I have no concerns for the future and when it comes to selling, by that time, DPF's will be 10 a penny so wont cost me must to re-install...



#83 hillesleyhenry

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Posted 18 December 2013 - 11:56 PM

Just had the job done at Avon Tuning - the diagnostics showed a number of error codes relating to the dpf as the problem, and some of the sensor tubes were burned through due to the heat generated during the regen process. It seems this was causing a bug which made it nearly continuously regen! The dpf itself was fully clogged up when we had a look inside.

Anyway, I would recommend these guys to do this work, and I got a remap at the same time. The car now drives great and I can really feel the difference, plus the mpg values have improved dramatically. Went to get the MOT done today and no issues. The tester didn't go into any details on the new rules but basically said that they wouldn't change anything in the way he does the test. I'm not worried about it and will post next year when this same car will be tested to the new rules.


These guys seem to be the real deal! I'll be going to them soon for a remap. Unsure about taking DPF out know though due to it being OK. Out of interest did you go for a stage 1 or 2 after DPF removal?


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#84 south_bound

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Posted 19 December 2013 - 10:20 AM

I went for the standard stage 1.  TBH I wasn't really looking for anything more than just the dpf deletion but he offered this remap as part of the service and as he has done so many focuses it was already in his archives.  They develop their own equipment and write their own code so this guy knows what he is doing and could do a custom remap for you if you want something specific.

 

BTW on the MOT, I have heard generally that this will be visual inspection only (at least for the forseeable) and seeing as the dpf on the focus is within the engine bay hidden under a heat shield and has the plastic tray under the engine it can't be seen anyway.  The MOT testers are not going to spend their time taking this stuff off to look for evidence of welds so I am not losing any sleep over it. 



#85 mintalkin

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Posted 19 December 2013 - 08:05 PM

if VOSA are involved they will know all the loopholes around removal and will know how to get round them, its funny how these tuning companies will never say thats its illegal to remove and you will be uninsured if you do not inform your insurance but then they wouldnt would they, i have had dealings with VOSA on commercial vehicles and you will not fool them.



#86 FLORYFOCUS

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Posted 19 December 2013 - 09:46 PM

I haven't told my insurance company about my alloy wheels, my re-map and I won't be telling them about the intercooler I shall be fitting tomorrow. By the same token I won't be telling them about the exhaust getting fitted In the new year without a cat or dpf. If I get involved in an accident my insurance is likely to be void for many reasons other than the dpf. If they want to get you, they will and I bet most of you guys have made a mod which would invalidate your insurance. If you want to do it, do it. And if not don't.

#87 mixmasterlooney

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Posted 19 December 2013 - 09:53 PM

I haven't told my insurance company about my alloy wheels, my re-map and I won't be telling them about the intercooler I shall be fitting tomorrow. By the same token I won't be telling them about the exhaust getting fitted In the new year without a cat or dpf. If I get involved in an accident my insurance is likely to be void for many reasons other than the dpf. If they want to get you, they will and I bet most of you guys have made a mod which would invalidate your insurance. If you want to do it, do it. And if not don't.


How will your car pass mot without a cat or dpf or even a dummy?

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#88 wase16ll

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Posted 19 December 2013 - 09:57 PM

the biggest **** up in all this is they have now created a huge grey area...it would have made sense to combine the announcement of new dpf rules for the mot at exactly the same time as creating a legislation that will make the firms offering the delete think its no longer worth doing for the risk of extensive fines..if you see what i mean

for these firms to carry on as before and suggesting all will be good is stretching malpractice to the limit imo:(

 

think there is a reason why VOSA, few weeks after the news,  still havent released exactly how this test procedure will go...take them 5 mins to tell everyone not to worry...only a visual thing and even then it will only be done if dpf is visable...

 

would think long and hard before deleting at this stage.



#89 FLORYFOCUS

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Posted 19 December 2013 - 10:12 PM

How will your car pass mot without a cat or dpf or even a dummy?

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I have no idea! But I asked the mot station where I take my car and they agree that the dpf is a visual check and they will still pass it.

#90 Stoney871

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Posted 19 December 2013 - 10:14 PM

I haven't told my insurance company about my alloy wheels, my re-map and I won't be telling them about the intercooler I shall be fitting tomorrow. By the same token I won't be telling them about the exhaust getting fitted In the new year without a cat or dpf. If I get involved in an accident my insurance is likely to be void for many reasons other than the dpf. If they want to get you, they will and I bet most of you guys have made a mod which would invalidate your insurance. If you want to do it, do it. And if not don't.



Not really a responsible law abiding driver I assume then?

So if you hit someone in a collision and your insurance is invalid do you have plenty of spare cash in your bank for compensating others?

I'd love to be visible in your rear view mirror one day.

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