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New Rules On Dpf Removal Starting Feb 2014


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#106 hillesleyhenry

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Posted 20 December 2013 - 03:11 PM

Who says they might ? It's only smoke test for diesels.speculation is a !Removed!


I just can't see them letting us all get away with it that easily, as somebody earlier pointed out; they are very clued up


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#107 FLORYFOCUS

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Posted 20 December 2013 - 04:34 PM

Ok so reading a few posts on here relating to some of my previous posts has been a real eye opener. I guess I hadn't really thought things through with regards to the insurance and I would never intentionally rip off the government. I have never claimed dole, benefits or whiplash despite being rear ended and being in a small amount of pain.

Anyway, you will all be pleased to know that my car is currently on axle stands and won't me moving until tomorrow and as of midnight, I will be fully covered for my modifications!!! I had to pay out a little to end my current policy early as they refused to insure an intercooler upgrade (by the sounds of things, purely because it wasn't listed in their drop down list). For anyone else thinking of declaring, and having difficulties, try Flux Direct who have sorted me out.

"Stoney" I now welcome you to sit in my rear view mirror, providing you can keep up (on the autobahn of course). Seriously though, thanks for the strong words, I think I needed them.

#108 Lenny

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Posted 20 December 2013 - 04:54 PM

Lenny what are you going to do about the tailpipe emission checks that might come in though?

Ive blanked the egr,
And I've got a 2.5" cat back duplex exhaust, more air mix with the fumes coming from two pipes instead of one,
So my emissions will be 50% less than a 1.7" single exit

#109 Stoney871

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Posted 20 December 2013 - 05:15 PM

"Stoney" I now welcome you to sit in my rear view mirror, providing you can keep up (on the autobahn of course). Seriously though, thanks for the strong words, I think I needed them.


On an autobahn you'd be in my rear mirror ;)

#110 hillesleyhenry

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Posted 20 December 2013 - 06:02 PM

Ive blanked the egr,
And I've got a 2.5" cat back duplex exhaust, more air mix with the fumes coming from two pipes instead of one,
So my emissions will be 50% less than a 1.7" single exit


Won't they check for a certain type of emission with a DPF though. I have egr blanked and duplex rear section too, just unsure about DPF removal. Also I have no rear silencer unlike yours, just a centre. Does this mean my DPF could be different to yours? Have you deleted the egr software off the ecu out of interest?

#111 FOCA

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Posted 20 December 2013 - 06:42 PM

 

 

On an autobahn you'd be in my rear mirror ;)

Guys!

 

You would both be a tiny dot in my rear view mirror

 

because i started half-an-hour before you :lol:



#112 Stoney871

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Posted 20 December 2013 - 06:44 PM

You would both be a tiny dot in my rear view mirror
 
because i started half-pan-nour before you


:P

#113 wase16ll

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Posted 20 December 2013 - 08:47 PM

i dont get this thought that just because diesels are only tested for smoke that this could never change with the new legislation coming in.

ive no idea what they will come up with, but you can bet your last £1 that they are looking for something that goes beyond a visual/smoke test, otherwise they would have already announced that this will be just a visual/smoke check.

 

i'll say it again...the pressure for more stringent tests goes beyond the government and vosa...there are many powerful bodies out there with a concerned interest in seeing this practice ended.

 

think about it...DPF is not to lower emissions in the same way a cat is..its there to stop the natural hazardous by-products of diesel burning..these are the particulates

 

look around europe, legislation has been increased everywhere for many years in everything from industrial engines to smaller than any car motor out there..for longer than this country has been trying to get up to scratch...even the states has been tinkering with this problem since the eighties.

 

the technology exists to test exhaust systems for harmful particulates...otherwise how would manufacturers release the figures in the first place...vosa have been tinkering with the idea of obd in mot's for years already, at one point it was suggested any current fault codes would fail a test...that was binned when it was pointed out some vehicles produce codes just for plugging in, renault being a prime eg...point is, the idea of going down that route has and probably still is, being floated about.

 

it really is a tough decision to make to go ahead with deleting, if the system is already failed then may pay to go ahead anyway as anything more advanced than visual/smoke wont happen in feb, but anyone that states it will only ever be a visual/smoke test is kidding themselves.

when you consider the amount of different type systems being fitted, its going to be difficult to know which vehicles were fitted with/without in the first place...but i can even see a possibility in the future that all diesels will have to be retrofitted...dont dismiss that, already talks of diesels without this system being banned from central london.

 

vosa have got there workl cut out to put in place a foolproof system, in my head, the only way they can do this is to have DPF vehicles tested at specific centres, that could be a very attractive financial proposition for garages willing to invest in the extra equipment required...

whatever they come up with, if its done 'right', the people who may get caught out with this will be in no position to appeal or argue as its already illegal anyway, and you can bet your last £1 (if you didnt earlier) the companies offering the delete now will be pushing much harder than anyone else in offering a refit, only this time they will up their profit margin as they know you no longer have the choice.



#114 jeebowhite

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Posted 20 December 2013 - 10:21 PM

I am glad that you took our advice, I know it might have cost you a few quid now, but you have potentially saved yourself a lot of expense and agony in the long run in the event of worst case scenario.



#115 FOCA

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Posted 21 December 2013 - 12:07 AM

i dont get this thought that just because diesels are only tested for smoke that this could never change with the new legislation coming in.

ive no idea what they will come up with, but you can bet your last £1 that they are looking for something that goes beyond a visual/smoke test, otherwise they would have already announced that this will be just a visual/smoke check.

 

i'll say it again...the pressure for more stringent tests goes beyond the government and vosa...there are many powerful bodies out there with a concerned interest in seeing this practice ended.

 

think about it...DPF is not to lower emissions in the same way a cat is..its there to stop the natural hazardous by-products of diesel burning..these are the particulates

 

look around europe, legislation has been increased everywhere for many years in everything from industrial engines to smaller than any car motor out there..for longer than this country has been trying to get up to scratch...even the states has been tinkering with this problem since the eighties.

 

the technology exists to test exhaust systems for harmful particulates...otherwise how would manufacturers release the figures in the first place...vosa have been tinkering with the idea of obd in mot's for years already, at one point it was suggested any current fault codes would fail a test...that was binned when it was pointed out some vehicles produce codes just for plugging in, renault being a prime eg...point is, the idea of going down that route has and probably still is, being floated about.

 

it really is a tough decision to make to go ahead with deleting, if the system is already failed then may pay to go ahead anyway as anything more advanced than visual/smoke wont happen in feb, but anyone that states it will only ever be a visual/smoke test is kidding themselves.

when you consider the amount of different type systems being fitted, its going to be difficult to know which vehicles were fitted with/without in the first place...but i can even see a possibility in the future that all diesels will have to be retrofitted...dont dismiss that, already talks of diesels without this system being banned from central london.

 

vosa have got there workl cut out to put in place a foolproof system, in my head, the only way they can do this is to have DPF vehicles tested at specific centres, that could be a very attractive financial proposition for garages willing to invest in the extra equipment required...

whatever they come up with, if its done 'right', the people who may get caught out with this will be in no position to appeal or argue as its already illegal anyway, and you can bet your last £1 (if you didnt earlier) the companies offering the delete now will be pushing much harder than anyone else in offering a refit, only this time they will up their profit margin as they know you no longer have the choice.

Ive heard this all before with cats/ decats and other things

 

its simply not economic or practical to equip every MOT testing station with special equipment, it may be a good few years untill things are different from what they are now (simple particulates test and visual inspection of the prescence of a DPF, when possible)  

 

This is a political thing, not a technical one - politically- the government wants to stop people from removing their DPFs, but without the technical means of detecting a DPF is present or not, so a press release is given where they say DPF deletes on cars that had them as OE spec are outlawed but there is no practical way of testing the prescence of a DPF or not >>provided the car does not produce exessive particulates(smoke) and the DPF looks phisically unaltered from the outside/ with a phisical inspection<<, so basically, its propaganda, and it will scare quite a few people from getting DPF deletes 

 

Governments / eurocrats should not get involved in technical matters - because they don't really understand these things and almost always mess them up- it should be left to the designers/ technicians who know what they are doing  

 

The overall impact of the presence of the DPF must be looked at, including the cost, materials used and amont of pollution produced to manufacture the DPF/ over and over during the vehicles lifespan,, the extra cost to the consumer of the DPF, the extra poluttion the extra fuel required causes to the enviroment during normal running and during forced regens etc that the presence of the DPF causes etc etc and the exessive consumption a faulty or blocked DPF causes  

 

Another thing to point out is the DPF does not actually stop a diesel engine producing soot, it only collects it (the engine produces same amount of soot with, or without a DPF) - when a DPF equipped engine gets older, it can produce smoke particles when accelerating, especially in the lower gears (in built up areas/ potentially near schools etc) instead of it being "spread around"  

 

if a DPF - eqquiped diesel car is used frequently for short journeys, the consumption can go right up, this fuel has to be refined etc, and the overall pollution/ impact on the enviroment may be considerable

 

Engines (and fuels) need to be developed to the point that something as backward as a DPF is no longer nessesary because the emmisions from the engine is clean enough anyway

 

Companies and garages will continue to provide DPF deletes (probably for years to come) but they will be officially for "off road use only" (eg for your "track day" 1.6 TDCI :lol: ) - simples  



#116 Lenny

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Posted 21 December 2013 - 09:17 AM

Won't they check for a certain type of emission with a DPF though. I have egr blanked and duplex rear section too, just unsure about DPF removal. Also I have no rear silencer unlike yours, just a centre. Does this mean my DPF could be different to yours? Have you deleted the egr software off the ecu out of interest?

Not sure about the emissions check but Id put in a bottle of STP nct per test kit proven to lower the emissions,
The cat will still do its job and although all modern diesels are fitted with dpf,
Not all diesels have the same emissions band.
So f the mot do bring in an emissions test n diesels then there will be a tolerance band.
I wouldn't worry about not having a rear muffler box, your focus would have had one initially but the removed it when fitting the duplex,
Only thing is: when you or if you remove your dpf internals, your exhaust will obtain a bit more grunt,
It won't be loud or raspy but more of a grumble.
I haven't had the egr software deleted but its blanked.
Couldn't find anywhere to delete the software,
But then Id only need software delete if I was going to physically remove the egr valve,
And I'm pretty sure there's a visual inspection n the egr valve too,
But they cant fail you for blanking it.

#117 Lenny

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Posted 21 December 2013 - 09:24 AM

Track day 1.6TDCi :lol: CHOPPED ¡¡
What do they use it for..... distributing cones and flags?
The whole reason I bought a VTEC petrol, because the diesel engine mixed with turn lag and heavy body is like an elephant on a tricycle going in to bends and pure out of breath exiting the hair pins.

#118 FLORYFOCUS

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Posted 21 December 2013 - 01:29 PM

Track day 1.6TDCi :lol: CHOPPED กก
What do they use it for..... distributing cones and flags?
The whole reason I bought a VTEC petrol, because the diesel engine mixed with turn lag and heavy body is like an elephant on a tricycle going in to bends and pure out of breath exiting the hair pins.


I disagree! You just need to know how to drive. I have a diesel and despite understanding where you are coming from if you anticipate the corners and get on the power before you would normally need to, you get all the Power you need at the right time to pull you out of the bends. I regularly destroy a lot of my friends on tracks who own similar engined petrol variants. I would imagine the 1.6 may be a little more sluggish than mine.

#119 FOCA

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Posted 21 December 2013 - 01:50 PM

Track day 1.6TDCi :lol: CHOPPED ¡¡
What do they use it for..... distributing cones and flags?
The whole reason I bought a VTEC petrol, because the diesel engine mixed with turn lag and heavy body is like an elephant on a tricycle going in to bends and pure out of breath exiting the hair pins.

 

I disagree! You just need to know how to drive. I have a diesel and despite understanding where you are coming from if you anticipate the corners and get on the power before you would normally need to, you get all the Power you need at the right time to pull you out of the bends. I regularly destroy a lot of my friends on tracks who own similar engined petrol variants. I would imagine the 1.6 may be a little more sluggish than mine.

 

The point i was making was if the companies doing the DPF deletes now are not "officially" allowed to remove DPFs for road cars they can continue to remove DPFs legally for off road cars like track day cars - so you woud take your "track day" 1.6 TDCI to have the DPF deleted, pefectly legally from the same companies that are doing road cars now, if you know what i mean



#120 TDCiST

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Posted 21 December 2013 - 01:52 PM

Lenny... I used to track my last focus... Nothing wrong with a diesel track car, just have to adjust driving style from those dirty high revving petrols!!!

My old 1.8 was awesome at overtaking things then covering them in a black mist ;)

You've just been derv'd!!

Such a satisfying feeling knowing you've just beaten someone that thinks their petrol car is much better than your tdci

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