Jump to content


Photo

2014 Upgrades

Focal sub woofer audio upgrade performance

  • Please log in to reply
105 replies to this topic

#61 Mr_Spock

Mr_Spock

    Settling In Well

  • Budding Enthusiast
  • PipPipPip
  • 83 posts
  • Name: Tom
  • Ford Model: Ford Focus 1.6 Petrol Hatch
  • Year: 2005
  • Location: Other / Non-UK
Contributor

Posted 22 August 2014 - 12:46 PM

Hi , Hassen, your setup looks great. Great Work I agree with FOCA's advices. But I think class D are totally ok in the listening envirement of a car. Think voltage drop are a bigger concern - class D delivers more power, using less current.

 

Choosing SQ - active crossovers with time-alignment sure will improve.

 

The prefab sub looks great. Love the pictures - fun to watch your progress.



Have something to contribute?

Sign in or register to start a topic...

Sign up to FOC Premium Membership To Remove These Ads

#62 Hassen

Hassen

    Too much time on the boards

  • FOC Supporters
  • 691 posts
  • Name: Hassen
  • Ford Model: Ford Focus Mk 2.5 1.6TDCI 2010
  • Year: 2010
  • Location: Offaly

Posted 25 August 2014 - 12:28 PM

Thanks a million for the kind words. It took a while but I am glad I did most of it myself. 

 

So, thinking that when funds allow, which might be a while, I will get the Infinity amp to replace the Blaupunkt one. Unsure whether I will then keep the Blaupunkt and go passive with the Focal speakers or use the Infinity Amp to go active with the Focal and power the rear speakers with the Blaupunkt amp. Guess I will cross that bridge when I get there.

 

Massive thanks for all the info given as I have learnt a lot and know that there is still more reading and learning to do. Love how this sound upgrade project started with me knowing very little with the basic stock components in the car and now I have something that I am quite proud out. It still surprises people when they hear it for the first time and that makes me smile :)



#63 FOCA

FOCA

    Feet on the table

  • True Ford Enthusiast
  • PipPipPipPipPip
  • 2,819 posts
  • Name: FOCA
  • Ford Model: Mondeo Mk3 Sleeper 194 flb.p.t.
  • Year: Non
  • Location: Scotland
Contributor

Posted 25 August 2014 - 04:53 PM

Hi , Hassen, your setup looks great. Great Work I agree with FOCA's advices. But I think class D are totally ok in the listening envirement of a car. Think voltage drop are a bigger concern - class D delivers more power, using less current.

 

Choosing SQ - active crossovers with time-alignment sure will improve.

 

The prefab sub looks great. Love the pictures - fun to watch your progress.

I disagree, it may be ok for some that just want to make a noise - but when you want to achiveve hi-fi quality sound in your car - class A-B is better than class D for sound quality classD compromises sound quality for efficiency (better efficiency/ worse sound quality) - classD is OK for subs (because the distortion caused by classD is less noticable at sub frequencies) 

 

They used to say you did not need CDs in a car and tapes (you know, the crappy, hissy compact cassette) were good enough due to the acoustics in a car!  



#64 FOCA

FOCA

    Feet on the table

  • True Ford Enthusiast
  • PipPipPipPipPip
  • 2,819 posts
  • Name: FOCA
  • Ford Model: Mondeo Mk3 Sleeper 194 flb.p.t.
  • Year: Non
  • Location: Scotland
Contributor

Posted 25 August 2014 - 05:42 PM

Thanks a million for the kind words. It took a while but I am glad I did most of it myself. 

 

So, thinking that when funds allow, which might be a while, I will get the Infinity amp to replace the Blaupunkt one. Unsure whether I will then keep the Blaupunkt and go passive with the Focal speakers or use the Infinity Amp to go active with the Focal and power the rear speakers with the Blaupunkt amp. Guess I will cross that bridge when I get there.

 

Massive thanks for all the info given as I have learnt a lot and know that there is still more reading and learning to do. Love how this sound upgrade project started with me knowing very little with the basic stock components in the car and now I have something that I am quite proud out. It still surprises people when they hear it for the first time and that makes me smile :)

The infinity amp is overpriced at £350, and the total harmonic distortion at the rated output is 1% thats (bad) brobably due to the cass D output stage - translation = its crap

 

The much cheaper BOSS amps are 0.01% total harmonic distortion at the rated output (exellent quality) - i looked at scores of amps to find an affordable one (or range of amps) with i very high spec (including superior class AB output stages ) at an affordable pric- this amp/ range of amps blows many much more expensive amps away (in terms of quality)   

 

Im not looking at brand names but at technical specs

 

You could get 2 boss amps, and this active boss x-over -

 

http://www.ebay.co.u...sd=321433206636

 

 http://www.ebay.co.u...=item4ad6e97f6c

 

for less than 1 overpriced (and inferior) amp   - and that would mean you have more left over for another set of focals -

 

so you could have the seperate active x-over (with fine control of the system) + 2 four chanel amps so the front and rears would be active, 8x (an amp for each woofer + tweeter!) 150w = 1200w so awesome power, headroom and clarity - and a fraction of the price of an equivelant system

 

PS - yes your sub x-over frequency is low, try 100 to 200hz, see how it sounds, you may need to turn the bass down   



#65 Mr_Spock

Mr_Spock

    Settling In Well

  • Budding Enthusiast
  • PipPipPip
  • 83 posts
  • Name: Tom
  • Ford Model: Ford Focus 1.6 Petrol Hatch
  • Year: 2005
  • Location: Other / Non-UK
Contributor

Posted 25 August 2014 - 06:22 PM

The infinity amp is overpriced at £350, and the total harmonic distortion at the rated output is 1% thats (bad) brobably due to the cass D output stage - translation = its crap

 

The much cheaper BOSS amps are 0.01% total harmonic distortion at the rated output (exellent quality) - i looked at scores of amps to find an affordable one (or range of amps) with i very high spec (including superior class AB output stages ) at an affordable pric- this amp/ range of amps blows many much more expensive amps away (in terms of quality)   

 

Im not looking at brand names but at technical specs

 

You could get 2 boss amps, and this active boss x-over -

 

http://www.ebay.co.u...sd=321433206636

 

 http://www.ebay.co.u...=item4ad6e97f6c

 

for less than 1 overpriced (and inferior) amp   - and that would mean you have more left over for another set of focals -

 

so you could have the seperate active x-over (with fine control of the system) + 2 four chanel amps so the front and rears would be active, 8x (an amp for each woofer + tweeter!) 150w = 1200w so awesome power, headroom and clarity - and a fraction of the price of an equivelant system

 

PS - yes your sub x-over frequency is low, try 100 to 200hz, see how it sounds, you may need to turn the bass down   

 

I beleive THD less than 1% on the Kappa 4 - means 0,05% :

 

http://eu.infinitysy...kappa-four.html

 

As for the Class AB vs Class D, at home in a very good listening environment - maybe you are right. Class A - for sure. Still - I own a Pioneer home cinema receiver, with class D - and I beleive it collected top results in every review I have read. And I like it too :)

 

In a car - with lot of roadnoise etc - and perhaps playing mp3's - spotify - I do not believe it would be an hearable improvement using class AB over class D. 



#66 FOCA

FOCA

    Feet on the table

  • True Ford Enthusiast
  • PipPipPipPipPip
  • 2,819 posts
  • Name: FOCA
  • Ford Model: Mondeo Mk3 Sleeper 194 flb.p.t.
  • Year: Non
  • Location: Scotland
Contributor

Posted 25 August 2014 - 07:49 PM

 

I beleive THD less than 1% on the Kappa 4 - means 0,05% :

 

http://eu.infinitysy...kappa-four.html

 

As for the Class AB vs Class D, at home in a very good listening environment - maybe you are right. Class A - for sure. Still - I own a Pioneer home cinema receiver, with class D - and I beleive it collected top results in every review I have read. And I like it too :)

 

In a car - with lot of roadnoise etc - and perhaps playing mp3's - spotify - I do not believe it would be an hearable improvement using class AB over class D. 

Ok - i agree with most of that - for most people class D fine and has efficiency advantages when running in a car enviroment, but look at the spec/ quality of the focals - i think that car owners wantling to turn their cars into a high fidelity/ quality enviroment would benifit from the (even slight) quality edge that a class AB amp has over a classD - in my experience a classD amp can get a bit harsh/ gritty at the top end when driven hard at high volume levels, and many musicians, sound engineers, hi-fi enthusiasts etc would hear the difference, i realize manufacturers' are continuing to develop classD designs to bridge the gap to class AB - but for me, class AB has the edge in quality

 

The difference may be small, and the difference between different speakers (sound quality wise) is probably bigger but with class AB amps available for less than a classD, its a no-brainer (for front speakers at these power levels) for subs or very high power (eg competition) systems,(power/ efficiency over quality) classD may be the way to go

 

- people debate class D vs class AB -  

 

http://www.diyaudio....-amplifier.html       



#67 Mr_Spock

Mr_Spock

    Settling In Well

  • Budding Enthusiast
  • PipPipPip
  • 83 posts
  • Name: Tom
  • Ford Model: Ford Focus 1.6 Petrol Hatch
  • Year: 2005
  • Location: Other / Non-UK
Contributor

Posted 25 August 2014 - 09:00 PM

Ok - i agree with most of that - for most people class D fine and has efficiency advantages when running in a car enviroment, but look at the spec/ quality of the focals - i think that car owners wantling to turn their cars into a high fidelity/ quality enviroment would benifit from the (even slight) quality edge that a class AB amp has over a classD - in my experience a classD amp can get a bit harsh/ gritty at the top end when driven hard at high volume levels, and many musicians, sound engineers, hi-fi enthusiasts etc would hear the difference, i realize manufacturers' are continuing to develop classD designs to bridge the gap to class AB - but for me, class AB has the edge in quality

 

The difference may be small, and the difference between different speakers (sound quality wise) is probably bigger but with class AB amps available for less than a classD, its a no-brainer (for front speakers at these power levels) for subs or very high power (eg competition) systems,(power/ efficiency over quality) classD may be the way to go

 

- people debate class D vs class AB -  

 

http://www.diyaudio....-amplifier.html       

 

You have good arguments - I do not disagree. 

 

Thinking only money and SQ - Class AB would be preferable.

 

But in a car with stock electrical system - Class AB delivering 40% of its power consumption in to the heatsink. Voltage drop could compromise sound quality. For me this is a bigger concern - than the difference in SQ between Class AB and Class D. I can not hear the difference - not at home - and probably not in the car. 

 

But maybe, as you wrote - using Class D for sub and Class AB for the front set - is the best choice - a good comprimise of cost, voltage drop and SQ? 



#68 Hassen

Hassen

    Too much time on the boards

  • FOC Supporters
  • 691 posts
  • Name: Hassen
  • Ford Model: Ford Focus Mk 2.5 1.6TDCI 2010
  • Year: 2010
  • Location: Offaly

Posted 28 August 2014 - 03:08 PM

Update:

Last week, I managed to put some Silent Coat on the underside of the car bonnet. This helped reduce the vibrations and also reduce the noise coming from the engine as well. You now have to really strain your ears to hear the engine purr. 

IMAG2020_zpswzkhhoqu.jpg

 

Also, I recently became a premium member of FOC. Got my Halfords discount card and 2 FOC stickers. Took me a while but I finally got them onto the car. Top tip for putting stickers/sunstrip: use soap and water, put it on the area of the window that you will be applying the sticker. Apply your sticker and then with a credit card, take out the air bubbles. Since the soap and water are still under the adhesive, you can move the sticker as much as you want until the water evaporates. Much easier to put a sticker and a lot easier to take out air bubbles. Hope this helps.

 

The pictures of the sticker are not great as that window is tinted and you have to be close to the car to see it. I like things subtle and this definitely suits me.

 

IMAG2021_zps0opzbtdo.jpg

 

IMAG2030_zpsasklg7jr.jpg

 

IMAG2028_zpsbfb82b60.jpg



#69 vince_13

vince_13

    Vince

  • True Ford Enthusiast
  • PipPipPipPip
  • 541 posts
  • Name: Andrew
  • Ford Model: Focus Zetec
  • Year: 2009
  • Location: Staffordshire
Contributor

Posted 29 August 2014 - 04:16 PM

hi hassen great setup, how easy was the door speakers to swap?

 

as you have 2 amps 1 for your sub and the other is that to power the crossovers you have in the doors? is the second amp necessary?



#70 Hassen

Hassen

    Too much time on the boards

  • FOC Supporters
  • 691 posts
  • Name: Hassen
  • Ford Model: Ford Focus Mk 2.5 1.6TDCI 2010
  • Year: 2010
  • Location: Offaly

Posted 29 August 2014 - 05:02 PM

Hi Vince. Thanks for the kind words :)

 

For the door speaker swap, the way I did it was that I unplugged the wires and used a small hacksaw to cut out the stock speakers leaving the ring that I used to mount the new speakers. The other option is to drill out the rivets and thus you can get the whole thing out. You will need to get some adaptor rings then to be able to fit the new speakers. Check out Mr_Spock build thread for pictures drilling out the rivets and my own thread for the hacksaw method. Pictures makes more sense. Both ways I think are fairly straight forward. 

 

Regarding the amplifiers, I have the front pair and the rear pair of speakers running off the 4 channel Blaupunkt amp. Thus, I had to get another amp for the subwoofer. I could have gone with a 1 amplifier setup, which was the case until recently with the front speakers powered by the amp and the subwoofer as well in bridged mode. The rear speakers were being run off the headunit but in this case, I couldn't control front/rear fade. If I gather correctly, the outboard crossover still need to be wired to an amp to get the most out of the speakers. 



#71 Hassen

Hassen

    Too much time on the boards

  • FOC Supporters
  • 691 posts
  • Name: Hassen
  • Ford Model: Ford Focus Mk 2.5 1.6TDCI 2010
  • Year: 2010
  • Location: Offaly

Posted 08 September 2014 - 10:46 PM

Update:

 

Got myself a blanking plate off Ebay. Will follow the guide by Lenny and try to fit it tomorrow. Fingers crossed all goes without any issues :)



#72 sonic113

sonic113

    Ford Focus Mk2.5 Zetec

  • Budding Enthusiast
  • PipPipPipPip
  • 430 posts
  • Name: Sonic
  • Ford Model: Ford Focus Mk2.5
  • Year: 2009
  • Location: Other / Non-UK

Posted 09 September 2014 - 03:38 PM

Hassen
Did you put that sound insulation under the bonnet yourself? What did you use? I'm looking some sound insulation for my focus but don't know what to go for.

#73 Hassen

Hassen

    Too much time on the boards

  • FOC Supporters
  • 691 posts
  • Name: Hassen
  • Ford Model: Ford Focus Mk 2.5 1.6TDCI 2010
  • Year: 2010
  • Location: Offaly

Posted 09 September 2014 - 03:59 PM

Hassen
Did you put that sound insulation under the bonnet yourself? What did you use? I'm looking some sound insulation for my focus but don't know what to go for.


I put it myself. Very simple to do but time consuming. It's a vibration damping material called Silent Coat. I have links in this thread where to get it for the cheapest online delivered. The market leader is Dynamat and this is as effective but costs a bit less.
Mind you now that this will only absorb vibration and to a very limited extent airborne noise. What do you actually want to achieve and for what purpose is a good starting point of what type of material that would suit you best.

Feel free to ask questions and I did a fair bit of research on this subject and it will save you a bit of time Googling :)

#74 sonic113

sonic113

    Ford Focus Mk2.5 Zetec

  • Budding Enthusiast
  • PipPipPipPip
  • 430 posts
  • Name: Sonic
  • Ford Model: Ford Focus Mk2.5
  • Year: 2009
  • Location: Other / Non-UK

Posted 09 September 2014 - 04:54 PM

I put it myself. Very simple to do but time consuming. It's a vibration damping material called Silent Coat. I have links in this thread where to get it for the cheapest online delivered. The market leader is Dynamat and this is as effective but costs a bit less.
Mind you now that this will only absorb vibration and to a very limited extent airborne noise. What do you actually want to achieve and for what purpose is a good starting point of what type of material that would suit you best.

Feel free to ask questions and I did a fair bit of research on this subject and it will save you a bit of time Googling :)

 

My focus is the mk2.5 1.6 zetec. Now the petrol is quiet as it is but I have added a new under try that has helped and for I added it to keep under as clean and protected as I can but Under the Bonnet is bare lol!  :) So I want to add some noise insulation for the look but also to aid in a wee bit of sound deadening as well. I cant find any OEM stuff (maybe from a diesel would fit) but since Im buying it i thought there might be bettwr sound stuff other than OEM material but anything will do as long as its tidy looking and doesn't bake the bank.

 

Thanks

:)



#75 Hassen

Hassen

    Too much time on the boards

  • FOC Supporters
  • 691 posts
  • Name: Hassen
  • Ford Model: Ford Focus Mk 2.5 1.6TDCI 2010
  • Year: 2010
  • Location: Offaly

Posted 09 September 2014 - 09:17 PM

Others might be able to chip in but I think the soundproofing that's in the diesel would fit the petrol. Don't quote me on it though. Also, maybe an engine cover if you don't have it already. I am not sure that Silent Coat would cut down a lot of engine noise. It will stop vibrations from entering the cabin though.

Have something to contribute?

Sign in or register to start a topic...


Not what you're looking for?

Register now, we have a huge community of enthusiasts to answer any questions you might have




Also tagged with one or more of these keywords: Focal, sub woofer, audio, upgrade, performance

0 user(s) are reading this topic

0 members, 0 guests, 0 anonymous users