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2.2 Tdci 09 Plate Mondeo Dieing Up Hills On Motorway


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#1 foz

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Posted 04 March 2014 - 11:28 AM

2.2 tdci 09 plate mondeo dieing up hills on motorway mainly (lorries overtake on big hills!!)

milage 150,000

 

i have a ford mondeo 2.2 tdci 2009 titanium x that i am having problems with

on a run on the motorway it will fly along at pretty much any speed until i
hit a hill then it just seems to die

i can drop it down a gear or two and it won’t pull up the hill (wont rev
like it’s in limp mode)

it has had the same fault on a flat road a few time but 98% is on a hill
& when its warm on a longer drive

to pull it out of this limp mode a simple stop and restart of the engine seems to correct it

ive recently changed fuel filter & air filter

then mass airflow sensor, this seemed to improve the cars performance but not cure the hill problem

i then checked all the turbo pipes, looked like the pipe to egr had a small
leak (bit of black crap on pipe) so changed that thinking this was it but still have
fault

Over the last few months the dtc's I’ve read out are:-

 

28 nov 13

p2122-00 accelorator position sensor signal to low

p0564-65

p1260-00 theft dection immobilizer

 

10 dec 13

p0564-65

 

23 dec 13

p0131-22 02 sensor circuit bank 1 sensor 1 low voltage

 

24 jan 14

p0131-22 02 sensor circuit bank 1 sensor 1 low voltage

p0564-65 (i think  P0564 is Cruise Control System, Multi-function Switch Input A – Circuit. Fault)?

 

i dont have the latest codes there on my laptop but i will edit post when i get laptop

 

the one that seems to be there after the limp mode is the p0131-22 02 sensor circuit bank 1 sensor 1 low voltage & p0564-65 Cruise Control System

but speaking to bristol street ford they have not sold any 02 sensors in the last 12 months for my model

 

i dont want to keep throwing money at it, i dont mind spending the money out to fix it but as yet i dont really seem to be any further forward

i thought the 02 sensor was triggered by turbo a leaking boost pipe but now thats been replaced i still get the error

the car runs really well until this problem occurs

i have noticed a noise when the engine is off coming from the egr valve every minute or so until the car is locked i googled it and seems its a cleaing cycle is this correct??

i would like to add that 99% of the time the car seems perfect (this fault is not all the time, well does not seem to happen on local runs although it has a few times)

 

hopefully i've posted enough info for someone to reply back with your thoughts

thanks in advance

foz

 

 

 

 

 



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#2 BOF

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Posted 04 March 2014 - 10:35 PM

Well

28 nov 13

p2122-00 accelorator position sensor signal to low

 

seems relevant, but hasn't happened often. that seems to be saying, in effect, the accelerator potentiometer isn't giving a valid signal. Probably, the cause is a wire that is either damaged or not making good contact at the connector. 

 

If that had happened often enough to correspond with your frequent losses of power, then I'd say that's it (because, in effect, the accelerator is saying you want no acceleration)...but it didn't.

 

 

23 dec 13

p0131-22 02 sensor circuit bank 1 sensor 1 low voltage

 

That one is happening more often, so from that point of view seems more relevant (but it still isn't happening that often). Is there any possibility that, for example, a connector to the ECU isn't fully in, causing multiple connection problems?



#3 foz

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Posted 05 March 2014 - 07:39 PM

thanks for your reply BOF
 

i can check the ecu connector but suspect the problem is not that simple, as it really seems to be when the car is going up a bank when the engine is warm,
although at this stage i am ruleing nothing out.

i am pretty sure something is triggering the 02 lambda sensor and this is the cause of the power loss, it maybe the sensor its self  but from reading it seems normally (on fords anyway) something else causes the 02 to trigger a dtc

other than loss of turbo boost pressure is there anything else a common cause to trigger 02 dtc?

my understanding of a lambda senor is it’s a final check of the cars mixture air/fuel and adjusts the ecu accordingly. but until i had this mondeo I only thought there was one fitted to each car but seems mondeo have more than 1 what is the purpose of the others?

it's one of those... that if i took the car into a garage they would think i was making it up, because the car has loads of power and unless i had experienced it myself i would agree with them there is nothing wrong with the car (like i told my lady) lol..she uses the car 99% of the time

but trying to get it to a garage with the fault still on the car is very hard as a simple engine stop start resets it and off you go again

But honestly Lorries were over taking me up some of the banks on the way to Plymouth on a recent trip but prior to the steep bank i had be cursing along at 80-90

Thanks again

foz

 

ps i agree that the p2122-00 accelorator position sensor signal to low can cause problems i had this with a focus diesel my last car making it lumpy like a petrol car with a lead off but its never given this dtc again



#4 BOF

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Posted 05 March 2014 - 11:18 PM


i can check the ecu connector but suspect the problem is not that simple,

 

 

Honestly, I suspect that there is a strong chance that the problem isn't that simple, too, but, if it was something that simple and you didn't check and went off buying new fuel pumps and sensors...well, we'd both feel bad about that.

 

as it really seems to be when the car is going up a bank when the engine is warm,

Well, I can't really think of anything that's particular about going up a bank that's different from normal accelerating, apart from the fact the nose is up and the tail is down. That brought to mind the idea that wires might not be in entirely the right place. Another possible idea is that you can't pick up fuel from the tank with the nose up:

  • have you had the instantaneous fuel consumption displayed when this happens, and what does it show? (I'm actually not sure what I expect the displayed consumption to do when you put your foot on the accelerator and there is low pressure - it might be corrected for the failing pressure, or not).

i am pretty sure something is triggering the 02 lambda sensor and this is the cause of the power loss, it maybe the sensor its self  but from reading it seems normally (on fords anyway) something else causes the 02 to trigger a dtc

There are several types of Oxygen sensor, and while I'm not sure, I'm expecting a heated wide band sensor (non-heated and narrow band are also possible). You can tell if it is a heated sensor, because they have more wires - at least on heavy duty wire, in addition to a couple of lower current ones.

If it is a heated sensor, I could see if the heater wires fell of (either the high current supply or the earth return which is probably a separate wire, but could be via the exhaust to ground somewhere) that might just lead to a loss of power, although I'd probably expect a warning light somewhere, but I don't really know. And, I'd certainly expect a fault code to be logged.

other than loss of turbo boost pressure is there anything else a common cause to trigger 02 dtc?

Wires falling off the sensor or the heater or a fault with the ECU on the input associated with that function (or the the output driving the heater). Or a short to either ground or some other potential on one of the O2 sensor wires. Probably, boost pressure low will cause a loss of power, but it shouldn't cause an O2 DTC.

my understanding of a lambda senor is it’s a final check of the cars mixture air/fuel and adjusts the ecu accordingly. but until i had this mondeo I only thought there was one fitted to each car but seems mondeo have more than 1 what is the purpose of the others?

I can only really tell you with certainty about the strategies used in petrol engines and some time ago, but I'll have a go.

The lambda sensor (O2 sensor) detects crap gigs at Greenwich...oh, sorry, its not that kind of O2 sensor. It detects excess oxygen in the output gas.  It has to be a bit warm to work (say, 450C ideally, but you can probably get a usable output from 200C upwards). The usual reason to have more than one is that, either

  • part of the exhaust after-treatment system affects lambda or
  • that combustion is still affecting Lambda in the end gas

(given that something like a catalytic converter is doing much the same thing as combustion, you could argue that this is the same process just at different rates and temperatures...but that's not really relevant).

 

So, if you are expecting Lambda to still be changing along the exhaust, with two sensors you can check that it is and flag a fault if it isn't. I'd expect this to result in lights on the dash and fault codes rather than loss of power until you got into limp home, and that limp home should not occur before this has been going on for some time.

 

If, for example, you trying to do a dpf regen and the exhaust gas was still burning as it left the engine, you could broadly check that you were doing it right. there is also a pressure sensor across the DPF, to check for excess blocking of the DPF and if that reads high even after a regen has been attempted that will result in some kind of fault (fault code, plus, maybe, limp home). this could happen with, apart from the obvious reason, because the electrical connections to the pressure sensors are bad or even that the pipes are leaky.

 

But honestly Lorries were over taking me up some of the banks on the way to Plymouth on a recent trip but prior to the steep bank i had be cursing along at 80-90

 

..the cursing should only be done when the fault is present :D

 

ps i agree that the p2122-00 accelorator position sensor signal to low can cause problems i had this with a focus diesel my last car making it lumpy like a petrol car with a lead off but its never given this dtc again

 

If you feel that you are pressing the accelerator, but the system doesn't think that you are, this will obviously lead to a loss of power. Given that this fault code is showing not only a low accelerator input, but an accelerator input that should be impossible you may also expect fault code and other such as well as low power. But then, if that was the whole story, you expect this fault code to occur as many times as you have had the problem, which it didn't.



#5 foz

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Posted 09 March 2014 - 10:45 AM

just to point out that the ecu light does come on sometimes

i have read the car again today and i have 2 dtc's

P0131 02 Sensor Circuit low voltage (bank 1 Sensor 1)

P2297 02 Sensor out of range during Deceleration Bank 1 Sensor 1

 

keeps pointing to this 02 sensor but do you think it's the sensor its self or a problem making it trigger ?

trouble is these sensors are not cheap if they were £50 odd i would buy in the hope that it would cure the problem but there £200 +

thanks for your time and effort helping me

foz

 

auto data 3.38 gives me 2 faults for both codes H02S & 02S whats the differance?

P0131 says H02S & 02S exhaust leak, wiring short to earth, ECM

P2297 says H02S & 02S intake leak, exhaust leak, injectors



#6 foz

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Posted 28 March 2014 - 09:45 PM

looking like i need new 02 sensor

just hoping this is it.... as not cheap

foz



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