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Clutch Bleeding Problem

Mondeo Mk3 Clutch Bleeding

Best Answer Hutchy70, 30 March 2014 - 07:18 PM

The haynes manual probably shows the 5 speed which is totally different. You can unclip the t-piece to check it is clear quite easily

Thanks for your prompt reply.  How do I unclip it, I can't feel anything underneath where it goes into the slave cylinder. do you mean removing the T-piece or uncoupling the pipe from where it enters the T-piece.

Cheers,

Bob.

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#1 Hutchy70

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Posted 06 March 2014 - 11:57 PM

Hi Guys, I have a 2006 Mondeo Mk3 2.0ltr TDCi Hatch,with a clutch problem.  I am hopeing someone can help solve my problem.  

Simply, my clutch wont bleed even using a Gunson Pressure Bleeder.  I have tried bleeding the recommended way through the reservoir but no joy, (it didn't pee in the bottle for me) so I adapted it so I could reverse bleed it from the bleed nipple, but no fluid movement in either direction.  

A few months ago I fitted new Alloys and cleaned all the brakes, fitted new pads and bled them all successfully.  I also bled the clutch which also worked fine but not this time. it's  totally got me stumped  :unsure: : I tried using the Gunson above the max pressure of 20psi up to 30psi but I darn't go any higher(I don't want to blow any seals). There just isn't any fluid movement at all  even with the bleed nipple completely removed, not even a drip.

Now the pedal no longer has any resistance and just flip-flops up and down by hand.  This only happened when I tried to bleed it to improve pressure on the pedal as it was not returning all the way up. The clutch did work OK until then but only got pressure in the last half of the pedal travel.

I really hope you guys can help, as apart from changing the master cylinder, I'm out of ideas and out of my  :censored:  mind.

Many thanks for reading.

Bob.



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#2 jeebowhite

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Posted 07 March 2014 - 09:52 AM

Hi Bob,

 

It sounds like you have a severe airlock in there.

 

if you have tried above the maximum pressure, it would sound like there is more to it.

 

I would say you should take the cap off and drain it from the top down and then bleed it further.then refill the system and bleed again.



#3 Dan62

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Posted 07 March 2014 - 10:27 AM

\



#4 flying clutchman

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Posted 07 March 2014 - 01:05 PM

My first thought would be the master cylinder is faulty. Unless the circuit is interrupted you should never need to bleed the clutch system in normal use. As previously said unless the internals of the master are fully returned new fluid cannot enter the system. Unfortunately the plastic cylinders used in the modern cars don't have an internal return spring, so the problem is accentuated. Change the master cylinder. Pressure bleeding is not recommended (nor needed) for hydraulic systems using a concentric slave cylinder



#5 Hutchy70

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Posted 08 March 2014 - 01:19 AM

Thanks guys, for your prompt response, namely - 'Jeebowhite', Dan62 and 'flying Clutchman'.  :)  It's great to know I can always get help here.

I've taken your combined advice on board and will be ordering a replacement master cylinder and then it will be down to the nitty gritty.  If any one can offer any tips and advice on how best to tackle this job, I would again be very grateful.  (My Haynes manual leaves a lot to be desired).

 

Once again, many thanks for all your help.  I will post the results as soon as I've done it. :driving:  (weather permitting)  :rolleyes: 

Cheers,

Bob.



#6 Hutchy70

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Posted 18 March 2014 - 05:08 PM

Hi Folks,

Well, I finally managed to fit a replacement Master cylinder and what a pig of a job that was  :angry: . Now  though the problem is still not fixed, because when I try to refill the clutch system with fluid it just disappears somewhere.  I have checked under the pedal and in the engine compartment and also under the car but no sign of any leaks.  The bleed screw is fully open but no fluid is coming out, it's as if the fluid isn't reaching the Slave Cylinder at all.  So where can it be going I have now put nearly 1ltr of fluid through but no pressure resistance from the clutch pedal, it just drops to the floor when pressed. (the Breaks are still fine and the fluid in the reservoir never drops below half way).

 

How much fluid should it take to refill the clutch system and could you please tell me what this drum shaped object is on the high pressure pipe (see attached photo)

 

DSC_0114.jpg

 

Your continued help and advice is much appreciated,

Bob. :wacko:



#7 flying clutchman

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Posted 18 March 2014 - 07:39 PM

the item in question is the clutch damper, it's just a chamber to stop vibration, ther's nothing inside. If I remember correctly the pipe into the master has a small top hat shaped seal on it. That's almost certainly flicked off and fluid will be leaking outside the cylinder



#8 mick85

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Posted 18 March 2014 - 10:34 PM

Remove pipe from slave cylinder hold ur finger over it while someone pumps pedal see if any pressure builds up


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#9 Hutchy70

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Posted 19 March 2014 - 01:55 PM

the item in question is the clutch damper, it's just a chamber to stop vibration, ther's nothing inside. If I remember correctly the pipe into the master has a small top hat shaped seal on it. That's almost certainly flicked off and fluid will be leaking outside the cylinder

Hi again, and many thanks for your input..

When I removed the high pressure pipe from the old MC I found later that it had left that top hat seal still inside.  I managed to hook it out and fitted it onto the pipe before inserting it but there is still a slight drip there so I guess it's not in properly.

More problems though, This morning I checked under the car for signs of leaks, there was some drips but nothing serious. However, when I checked the reservoir it had drained completely.  This is new, never happened before up to changing the Master Cylinder which shows no leaks except for a slight leak (just a drip) from where the high pressure pipe connects to it.

My thoughts are that I might have blown a seal in the Vacuum Servo behind the reservoir and the fluid is disappearing into there. I am pretty sure it's not going into the Bell housing as no fluid seems to be even reaching the Slave Cylinder.  What are your thoughts please.



#10 flying clutchman

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Posted 19 March 2014 - 07:24 PM

\well you can tell quite easily because the reservoir is split internally into two chambers. You will see the clutch take off on the side. You should be able to see through the plastic if this level has fallen down to the pipe take off. If it hasn't then you're right, but the two systems work seperately.



#11 Hutchy70

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Posted 20 March 2014 - 01:14 AM

Hi again, and many thanks for your input..

When I removed the high pressure pipe from the old MC I found later that it had left that top hat seal still inside.  I managed to hook it out and fitted it onto the pipe before inserting it but there is still a slight drip there so I guess it's not in properly.

More problems though, This morning I checked under the car for signs of leaks, there was some drips but nothing serious. However, when I checked the reservoir it had drained completely.  This is new, never happened before up to changing the Master Cylinder which shows no leaks except for a slight leak (just a drip) from where the high pressure pipe connects to it.

My thoughts are that I might have blown a seal in the Vacuum Servo behind the reservoir and the fluid is disappearing into there. I am pretty sure it's not going into the Bell housing as no fluid seems to be even reaching the Slave Cylinder.  What are your thoughts please.

UPDATE;

I think I found the culprit, there has been a leak from where the high pressure pipe fits into the MC and secured by a spring clip.  Apparently this had been leaking unseen down in-between the bulkhead and the sound muffling material and dripping out under the car.  Although I thought I had secured the pipe in place with the spring clip apparently the little rubber top hat type grommet/seal that fits on the end of the pipe had not seated properly.

My query is that should this top hat type grommet just fit on the end of the pipe or should the pipe come right through it.  I hope that makes sense to you.  Unfortunately there is no way of knowing as it was left stuck inside the old MC when I removed it.

If I can get this to seal properly I think my problem should be resolved.  I am pretty sure now it is not going into the Vacuum Servo.

Cheers,

Bob.



#12 flying clutchman

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Posted 20 March 2014 - 04:49 AM

Yes that's what I thought. The seal fits over the pipe and the top of the plastic bit so that the end of the pipe is flush with the seal. These are a common source of anguish. Be careful not to lose it Fords don't sell them seperately from the pipe. You can however buy exactly the same part for a transit (yes they fit!)



#13 Hutchy70

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Posted 20 March 2014 - 11:54 PM

Yes that's what I thought. The seal fits over the pipe and the top of the plastic bit so that the end of the pipe is flush with the seal. These are a common source of anguish. Be careful not to lose it Fords don't sell them seperately from the pipe. You can however buy exactly the same part for a transit (yes they fit!)

Hi friend,

Sorry to be a pain but I'm still not clear on your comment, "The seal fits over the pipe and the top of the plastic bit so that the end of the pipe is flush with the seal",  If I don't push the pipe right through it it doesn't reach the plastic bit.  The first time I fitted the seal I just placed it on the end of the pipe and pushed the pipe in as far as I could but it wouldn't seal properly.  So after your reply I pushed the seal on so the pipe protruded about a 1/4 inch this gave a better seal but it was still weeping.

The problem seemed to be that I couldn't push the pipe in all the way due to the seal now showing a slight bulge at the end which I believe was stopping it going into it's socket all the way.  So I'm a bit stumped by not understanding what you mean by being flush with the end of the pipe.

 

Would it be better if I pushed the seal all the way in on it's own, then try to push the pipe into it in situ  ?  The only thing is that is similar to the way I first put it in just placing it on the end of the pipe but it leaked a lot.  I know that when I first tried to remove the pipe from the old MC, I had a hell of a job pulling it out (I had released the spring clip first by the way).  Unfortunately when I pulled the pipe out to enable removal of the MC, the top-hat seal stayed inside so I don't know it's real position on the pipe.

So to summarise;  

  • Should the pipe protrude through the top-hat seal or remain inside it ?
  • Would it be better to push the seal home first all the way, then push the pipe in after ?

​Sorry to be such a dumbo about this but a simple thing becomes very complicated when your unfamiliar with it.

Thank you very, very much for your help and patience.

Best regards,

Bob.  :rolleyes: 



#14 flying clutchman

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Posted 21 March 2014 - 04:30 AM

The seal MUST be fitted to the pipe first. On the end of the pipe you have a tapered plastic fitting. The bottom of the seal should seat over the end of the plastic fitting into the small groove



#15 Hutchy70

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Posted 21 March 2014 - 11:14 AM

The seal MUST be fitted to the pipe first. On the end of the pipe you have a tapered plastic fitting. The bottom of the seal should seat over the end of the plastic fitting into the small groove

OK thanks,

Just one final question then, I have finally got it to seal now with no more leaks.  Now I'm having trouble bleeding the system.  There is a trickle coming from the bleed nipple but still no pressure under the pedal.  I have pumped about a 1/4 litre through but still no clutch action.

 

I am nearly there now, so is it just a case of keep bleeding, (I can't see any air bubbles coming out which I thought would have been quite a few)

 

Any ideas please,

Cheers my friend

Bob.



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