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#16 kristriple

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Posted 16 March 2014 - 04:54 PM

Looking at the EBC website further, I think the warm up time on the redstuff pads would be minimal. They basically recommend the green pads for cars below 200bhp and the reds for cars above 200bhp.

Mine wont let me copy and paste either... If you go to the redstuff technical information, from the link you posted, they are described as equal to or better than oem when cold. There isn't any clear description on how good the reds are at higher temp. I'll drop them an e-mail and get back to you. I'll also do some digging on what Brembo offer for the mk4.

The orange ones need SERIOUS warm up, and sound more like what you have described. Its worth have a read if you haven't done so already. It says they still work when the discs are glowing/red hot. It mentions 1000C....... 



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#17 BOF

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Posted 16 March 2014 - 06:54 PM

This explanation, I understand! Very similar to how I would explain motorcycle tyres operating.

 

...and car tyres, for that matter...

 

 

I mentioned EBC and brembo because they are the brands I have used before. Best to stick with one you know and trust eh?

 

Usually, yes. But then you certainly aren't the first with new, exciting stuff. 

 

It appears that the yellows stretch across both temperature rages. Sticking with your example, it works between 0 and 600. This would be the best option for me. However, green and red are the only options available for the mk 4 mondeo.

 

Are you sure? I have yellows on the back of my Mondeo Mk4 and was intending replacing the fronts with more yellows soon. I don't have as much power as you, but that isn't all that important (what is important for a single stop is weight and speed, and while you can put on a bit more speed with more power, and it is speed squared, and the weight for all mk 4s is pretty similar - you could, if you so wanted get up to a high speed more frequently with more power, but that is a bit extreme).

 

 

Is there a brake fluid that you would recommend?

 

Not particularly. Most important is that it is fresh (no absorbed  moisture, because moisture boils out, and gas in the fluid has predictable results). Ford, Castrol or Girling ought to be fine.

 

The orange ones need SERIOUS warm up, and sound more like what you have described. Its worth have a read if you haven't done so already. It says they still work when the discs are glowing/red hot. It mentions 1000C....... 

 

At that point, you really do start to worry about the brake fluid. I mean the pads themselves don't do anything to put up the operating temperature of the fluid, so it is clearly at risk as the temperature at the fluid rises. At that point, the silicone fluids may start to make sense, but for more normal requirements, they don't.

 

BTW, cut and paste is now 'sort-of' working again - I restarted the browser and it cuts and it pastes. It just has a habit of pasting in to the wrong place... Ho, hum. And now, deleting a space at the top of the post has just deleted the first quote box and re-arranged some of the others. This is a bit irritating.

 

I've now learnt to put the quote box in first and then paste the data into that and find that works better than trying to do it the more direct way. But it shouldn't be necessary.
 



#18 kristriple

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Posted 16 March 2014 - 08:38 PM

Your right, car tyres as well. But, its a common discussion with bikers. I don't know any car drivers that contemplates tyres that need tyre warmers before a sunday run....

 

When I went through the buy online from EBC direct, Green's are red's were the only two options that came up. They must be out of stock? Obviously they do make them if you have them fitted!?

Weve been discussing this a couple of days and you haven't mentioned that you have yellows on the car!? haha How are they then? What do you have on the front just now?

 

As I said, the yellows sound like the best option. Fine for the missus (she drives at snails pace!), with no warm up, and better when im driving the car like an imbecile! Perfect.

 

Might take me a while to get round to this.... I noticed the car will need new tyres soon when I was washing it today. Maybe 1000 miles or so left. Tyres ( for me anyway) are probably the most important upgrade you can make. Brakes second. So i'll spend a small fortune on them. That's a whole different discussion tho....



#19 BOF

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Posted 16 March 2014 - 09:51 PM

 

When I went through the buy online from EBC direct, Green's are red's were the only two options that came up. They must be out of stock? Obviously they do make them if you have them fitted!?

Weve been discussing this a couple of days and you haven't mentioned that you have yellows on the car!? haha How are they then? What do you have on the front just now?

 

 

This is EBC Brake shop; what the difference is between 'EBC Brake Shop' and EBC Direct I don't know, but they are listing Ultimax / Green / Red / Yellow / Green (listing the green again, with a different ident number - a later version???). There are some minor mysteries about the part numbers (why are there two greens with different numbers, and, for the rear only, there is something that doesn't have a colour assigned, but I assume that these aren't show stoppers, even if maybe they need some clarification from EBC).They have stock so they must have made them...

 

As to how they are, I was hoping this wouldn't come up, because I don't know and it is a bit complicated!

 

When I bought the car, there was a service history and there was no evidence of brakes being changed, so I assume that means it is on original pads and disks. The brakes tended to be a bit grabby, which wasn't ideal and made it difficult to drive smoothly in stop-start traffic, but didn't really influence the ability to stop from speed. I was then told that the rears (only) were very low and needed doing immediately (by someone doing tyre fitting and they offered to do it with no name pads for about £140 or something...an offer that I declined). 

 

Anyway, I got the rear pads and got a local independent to fit them for a lot less and there was no real change in the 'grabiness'. This wasn't really a surprise, as the rears only do a smaller percentage of the total amount of braking. What was a surprise was that sometime over the next couple of months, the grabiness seems to have gone away. Is it as the pads have bedded in, or is it that I've just got more used to driving the car and driving around the characteristic of the pads? I don't really know. The other thing I don't really know is what would happen if I really gave a set of yellows some hard work to do, as I only have the rears and the rears do the smaller fraction, etc, etc. I can only say that that the grabiness is the only change I've noticed*, so it isn't clear whether they are much of an improvement, but I'd still be buying the matching fronts to find out. 

 

* There is one respect in which this is a lie - I'd hoped to cut down the amount of dust and, while the rears always have made somewhat less dust than the fronts, that hasn't changed much with perhaps a small improvement (reduction) in the dust from the rear compared to the fronts.

 

Might take me a while to get round to this.... I noticed the car will need new tyres soon when I was washing it today. Maybe 1000 miles or so left. Tyres ( for me anyway) are probably the most important upgrade you can make. Brakes second. So i'll spend a small fortune on them. That's a whole different discussion tho....

 

Hmmm. It'll be same discussion (compromise and what are your priorities), but I suspect the answer will end up as either SC5s or Eagle F1 Assy 2s. But that's for another thread.



#20 kristriple

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Posted 17 March 2014 - 03:25 PM

I see why you didn't bring it up. As you've said, they are on the back, you probably wouldn't notice them that much.

You will keep me posted? Let me know once you have a set on the front? You'll probably get round to it before I do.

 

The red's bed in time are putting me off slightly, im glad they make yellows for the mk4. 1000-1500 miles, due to the harder material. Im sure they would be worth it, but I'd have to force myself to take it easy for that length of time.

 

I don't know if you've had Brembo's on before, i'll let you know how they are when the Evo arrives. I've only had them on bikes before, They were good, but its not really comparable.

 

I don't think i'll bother with the tyre thread. you've mentions SC5's. Continental Sport contact 5's? I had a set on the Fiesta. 2's or 3's, cant remember which. They did the job then, so im sure they'll do now!



#21 kristriple

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Posted 21 March 2014 - 07:29 PM

Car was in getting the strut top mounting done today. Nothing wrong with the brakes mechanically. There were no manufacturers idents on the pads. I'm guessing that Ford would have some kind of marking on them if they were theirs?

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#22 mick85

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Posted 21 March 2014 - 08:12 PM

2.5 uses brakes off volvo they not same as normal mondeo ones but they not exactly performance an as lads says is u roast brakes u will just warp discs an unless u serious bank balance an wanna upgrade I would take it handy other wise u be replacing discs an pads every few months


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#23 kristriple

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Posted 21 March 2014 - 11:24 PM

2.5 uses brakes off volvo they not same as normal mondeo ones but they not exactly performance an as lads says is u roast brakes u will just warp discs an unless u serious bank balance an wanna upgrade I would take it handy other wise u be replacing discs an pads every few months


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I'm going to upgrade them as we have been discussing on the rest of this thread. Probably EBC yellow stuff pads with appropriate discs.

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#24 BOF

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Posted 02 May 2014 - 05:26 PM

I just want to update this thread (a bit); I still haven't got around to purchasing new pads, but I have been looking around at websites of brake sellers, and I wanted to put the information here, in case it helps someone.

 

Regarding EBC: there are a number of sites selling EBC pads (and discs), and some of them give the impression that they are directly associated/owned by EBC. It seems that they are not.

 

Now, that may not seem important, but the important thing is that they do not always carry the full range of EBC pads, and just because some site doesn't have some particular pad, it doesn't mean that they don't exist.

 

Now, there is an EBC on-line catalogue, and you might want to use it, but be warned that it is a bit of a pain in a place that you wouldn't want a pain. The thing is slow, it crashes, it is difficult to read, and the index is wrong (currently you want something like page 122, irrespective of what the index says...and you can go directly to that page, but the syntax may be a bit obscure and the index sends you to ~roughly page 80, which is about the start of 'Fiat' not the end of 'Ford' - there is a lot of page turning in-between, and that's slow). Oh yes, and it crashes quite a lot, if you do tricky things like zooming to make the text actually readable.

 

This isn't exactly glorious, but you can live with it because you can get the info from seller websites...except that sometimes, you can't. Camskill, who are nice people and have decent prices, only list the part numbers and prices, so don't let you look up the part number that is applicable for your car.

 

Just before this turns into an EBC love fest, I just want to comment on the offerings from some other manufacturers:

 

Pagid make some very good pads (eg for racing Porsches), so they clearly know what they are doing, but I just can't find out what they are offering for the Mondeo. You can find a pad, but if is just their equivalent of a standard pad, then there isn't that much point if you are looking for an upgrade.

 

Similar comments apply to Mintex (part of same TMD group). They make different pads, and something is available for the Mondeo, but it isn't clear whether it is just a standard specification pad made by them, or something more performance orientated. Given that they are the same group, these may even be the same pads as the Pagid ones, with a different name on them, or made on the same production line, I just don't know (Textar and Don are other members of this group, and you'll find Textar pads around, too, for example here, where you'll also find some others (I'm just told to avoid the Eicher ones, as they are bad in some way, but I don't know)).

 

I'm sure I saw someone offering Brembo pads, but I can't find that now. Again, I know Brembo make some good pads (either as Brembo or AP, their associated company), but I just couldn't figure out which pads these were from their range. And their catalogue doesn't help - it is several years old, and doesn't list anything for the Mondy.

 

Now off to research disks!

 

(Oh, by the way, I had been told, several times, that 'all MkIV Mondeos use the same brake pads'; the EBC catalogue lists a different reference number for the parts for a 2.5 T than for the rest of the range. So, like mick85, I now think a more correct statement would be 'all MkIV Mondeos, except the 2.5 T, use the same brake pads')




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