Air Conditioning & Performance

[TurboZutek]

Not this myth again about having a/c on all the time buggers it up.

Read it again, you'll see I said 'the chance to bugger it up' - if you use something MORE then it's MORE likely that it will go wrong. Google 'MTBF' for additional information; every component in the universe has a MTBF, you can't get around it.

They do sell cars with a/c in hot countries don't they? Think about it, that's what the thing is there for, to keep the car cool in hot conditions.

Totally. Even there though, a 100% duty cycle isn't necessary or prudent.

I've had 4 cars now over the last 8 years with climate and air con and over that time, they have all been set on, all the time, and guess what, never ever had a problem with any of them, no new compressors, no dodgy seals etc. As for the performance and mpg, well, the Fiesta has no performance to wain anyway and I'd rather be cool, have clear windows all the time all for the sake of 1 or 2 mpg. No big deal to me.

Yeah, measure the output of your AC unit after a few years 100% duty cycle and see how it's working. %60 ? %40? How's the drain looking there? Full of mushrooms? Have fun breathing that muck, as you've never had it serviced. Check the level and see how much refrigerant is left... Because they DO loose refrigerant over time with use, a fact of using a system with flexible piping.

I think your maths is a wee bit out anyways. At 10% reduction for running the AC (which is about right, btw) and assuming your car gets around 38 mpg, you've instantly lost 3.8 mpg. Add that up over a tank and you are spending one quid in every tenner for nothing. And your right, the Fiesta doesn't have performance to spare, so why instantly bin 10% in the pursuit of no gain whatsoever on most days?

Doesn't seem sensible.

If the Climate system WAS fully intelligent and DID manage the compressor I'd agree with you - let the computer do the work, but what I'm confirming in this thread is that it doesn't.

Chris...

[KeithC]

Read it again, you'll see I said 'the chance to bugger it up' - if you use something MORE then it's MORE likely that it will go wrong. Google 'MTBF' for additional information; every component in the universe has a MTBF, you can't get around it.

Totally. Even there though, a 100% duty cycle isn't necessary or prudent.

Yeah, measure the output of your AC unit after a few years 100% duty cycle and see how it's working. %60 ? %40? How's the drain looking there? Full of mushrooms? Have fun breathing that muck, as you've never had it serviced. Check the level and see how much refrigerant is left... Because they DO loose refrigerant over time with use, a fact of using a system with flexible piping.

I think your maths is a wee bit out anyways. At 10% reduction for running the AC (which is about right, btw) and assuming your car gets around 38 mpg, you've instantly lost 3.8 mpg. Add that up over a tank and you are spending one quid in every tenner for nothing. And your right, the Fiesta doesn't have performance to spare, so why instantly bin 10% in the pursuit of no gain whatsoever on most days?

Doesn't seem sensible.

If the Climate system WAS fully intelligent and DID manage the compressor I'd agree with you - let the computer do the work, but what I'm confirming in this thread is that it doesn't.

Chris...

But your 10% isn't exact science is it, all engines are different so therefore the strain from the a/c is different according to a/c used and engines that are running it. Also the journey is important, if you are driving the car for 15 minute periods on a stinking hot day there will be a difference to say driving 100 miles down the motorway in the same conditions. Surf the net, there are plenty of examples and tests where the car produces less than the 10% you suggest, probably less or similar to having the window open when cruising down the road or running on incorrect tyre pressure.

Anyone anal enough to worry about 1 or 2 mpg needs to get a life as far as I'm concerned and if I was in need of such gains, I'd buy a !Removed! ecowhateveritsnameis. In fact I wouldn't, I'd !Removed! top myself. I'd rather be comfortable when driving than save pennies due to extra fule consumption. The infatuation over mpg this day and age is frightening. I would imagine most people driving cars do around 10,000 miles a year or less. Those who do considerably more than that, the majority of them I would imagine get the fuel paid for anyway.

Of course components wear, but that should never put anyone off from using them. As in all things, on going servicing will lengthen the lifespan of any components, air con is no different. You wouldn't run your engine without changing your oil, you wouldn't run the cooling system without changing that and so on. If people want to ignore that components require servicing then that is their look out and not the fault of the equipment installed in the car.

[TurboZutek]

Well that's it in a nutshell matey - I'm personally NOT comfortable in a car running aircon when conditions are fine and good outside... The air's too dry and it pisses off my throat. I also don't like putting the foot down and getting nothing because the aircon is stealing the low rev performance of the engine (which is not great in the 1.4 TDCi, until about 2k).

Anyway, I'm not trying to convince you of anything (couldn't care less what you do with your car), just stating the facts and responding to the calls of 'well the climate control automatically etc etc etc'.

Chris...

[Bashful]

This is only my 2nd car with aircon, the last I didn't use all the time. When I collected this car the salesman said it was best to have it on all the time and I have, there is enough power for me and the mpg is doing fine, and I arrive at my destination cool as a cucumber

[Andrew1972]

After reading through this thread I have come to the conclusion that if we use any of the controls or creature comforts on ours cars that they will break more often?

Now I understand why other drivers do not use their indicators, heaven forbid that they should break when they might be needed, on a roundabout, changing lanes etc

Considering when they are on they are off half the time ;) It should make them last longer anyway and maybe over time save some money on fuel!

AC definitely ON keeps the inside of the car dry, me cool when hot and to hell with the money saving.

I brought the car as a package and will use all of the goody's, because I can, or I would have brought a tricycle that was powered by an overfed hamster :o

[JAR897]

Here Here. Why buy air con if its not going to be used. OK So it might sap a little from the performance or a little petrol, but then you could say that about most things.

There is one thing not wanting to waste money, another not wanting to spend any money in the first place.

"I'm not going to use the umbrella, it might get wet!"

"I'm going to sit in my room in the middle of summer with all the windows closed and no fan on because it will save me £5 on electricity".

"I'm not going to watch TV because I can save on paying the TV License!"

[charlie866]

The reason for this thread was to determine if i had a fault or not. Today when using the air con i can hear a solenoid or valve or whatever it is opening and closing every 10 secs compared to a big clunk noise which i was hearing when i first bought. And the power loss is very noticeable to a point it feels like the car is missing a spark and acceleration pauses before it picks up and the air con is definitely not cold compared to what it was when i bought the car. It seems to be running warm and cold so I guess its time to ring ford and book it in.

[Andrew1972]

Well that does not sound quite right

Good luck with the dealer, hopefully you will get it sorted soon.

[Matt M]

My Aircon isn't cold at all - I usually cool the car by driving with the windows open to get the cooler air in, then up the windows and turn on the air con. Even after it's been on for 15-20 mins, it's still not very cold... Do I need to get the gas re-charged? I mentioned this at the service and the guy just said that Fiesta A/C Systems aren't that cold anyway so even changing the gas or re-charging it wouldn't work. Any Ideas?

[charlie866]

My Aircon isn't cold at all - I usually cool the car by driving with the windows open to get the cooler air in, then up the windows and turn on the air con. Even after it's been on for 15-20 mins, it's still not very cold... Do I need to get the gas re-charged? I mentioned this at the service and the guy just said that Fiesta A/C Systems aren't that cold anyway so even changing the gas or re-charging it wouldn't work. Any Ideas?

[/q

Well im booked in for tomorrow ill let u know how I get on. Just found this too on the ford fusion site Air Con Top Up

[TurboZutek]

I've found my aircon is a LOT better now after some use than when I first used it a couple of weeks ago. The CLUNK seems to have quieted down a little now as well, although it's still the loudest on any car I've heard.

"I'm not going to use the umbrella, it might get wet!"

"I'm going to sit in my room in the middle of summer with all the windows closed and no fan on because it will save me £5 on electricity".

"I'm not going to watch TV because I can save on paying the TV License!"

These are the worst analogies I've ever heard;

1st. Do you walk around with a brolly up when it's not raining? No? Why would you use the AC if you don't need to dehumidify or cool then?

2nd. No one ever said you should NOT use your AC, I was simply pointing out it might be an idea to switch it off if you don't need it.

3rd. God no that would be terrible!! Without such incredibly entertaining and intellectually stimulating shows like 'Big Brother' or 'Britain's got talent' on constant repeat how would you know what to think!? I'll stick to first run shows on WebTV and save the licence fee, thanks!

Now, I'm off to switch my lights on permanently, keep the stereo at MAX (all the time) and always ensure my windscreen wipers are running; based on the great logic of this thread! Why fit something to a car and not use it 100% of the time, hey?

Thanks guys!!

Best of luck at the Dealer charlie866, hopefully it's a quick fix!

Chris...

[Jonny87]

Come on now turbozutec, there is no need to twist things....

1. If you have a computer, which you obviously do, you still have to pay the license fee. (yes thats right)

2. I think the point being made was if you are going to pay hundreds of pounds to fit optional extras to the car then you might as well use them.

Going by your logic you should drive around with your doors open, because that's their function....

[TurboZutek]

Come on now turbozutec, there is no need to twist things....

1. If you have a computer, which you obviously do, you still have to pay the license fee. (yes thats right)

Actually, for streaming applications that hasn't been formally established in law yet - it's only the case if your PC has a TV TUNER built in, which mine doesn't.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/blogs/bbcinternet/200...ire_a_tv_1.html

2. I think the point being made was if you are going to pay hundreds of pounds to fit optional extras to the car then you might as well use them.

I got that, and I'll use my AC whenever I need it. Seriously can everyone please note one thing:

OF COURSE YOU SHOULD USE YOUR AC - NOWHERE DID I SAY YOU SHOULD NOT!! The question was asked, does it effect performance and should I leave it on all the time and the answer is:

YES it does and NO you shouldn't if performance is important to you.

I dunno if I can make it any clearer than that.

Going by your logic you should drive around with your doors open, because that's their function....

Actually that's only their function when someone needs to get in or out - their function when the car is in motion is to form part of the body-shell; which requires them to be closed.

Anyways, that's not my logic - my logic is simply 'use something when needed'. The 'advice' I'm seeing in this thread is 'no way man, you paid for it, use it all the time'.

With that in mind, I'm currently building a huge clip that will permanently hold my horn ON. No point having it if I can't use it all the time, right?

Chris...

[Jethores]

Hi, even though I live in Norway i always leave the AC set on auto. I have not noticed any performance loss. Maybe it is because my engine is a 1.6 TDCI.

[Jonny87]

YES it does and NO you shouldn't if performance is important to you

Why you couldnt have just said that in the first place and left it at that I dont know. Instead of rolling the thread onto three pages with "it uses 10% of your fuel" "your breathing in mould" deary me!

To be honest I think your 10% claim is highly questionable. But anyway who the hell cares! Boo hoo the car is using fuel, as if we didn't all know that already!

As for TV licenses its got nothing to do with tuners at all! You watch any live TV online, you need a TV license. Otherwise you can only stream recorded programmes, and what is the point of that! Only ever watching old programmes that everybody else has already seen, never being able to watch the news. I would rather sit on the sofa in front of a TV for the sake of a few quid a month!

It does say this quite clearly here:

http://tvlicensing.metafaq.com/templates/t...SKRR3ORPFVMKBSA

Thats right its the official site, not a blog entry!

[charlie866]

The reason for this thread was to determine if i had a fault or not. Today when using the air con i can hear a solenoid or valve or whatever it is opening and closing every 10 secs compared to a big clunk noise which i was hearing when i first bought. And the power loss is very noticeable to a point it feels like the car is missing a spark and acceleration pauses before it picks up and the air con is definitely not cold compared to what it was when i bought the car. It seems to be running warm and cold so I guess its time to ring ford and book it in.

Dropped my car off this morning now awaiting call. Theres two outstanding recalls on it battery terminal and water hoses want checking. There records show the air con was topped up just before i bought it and while I was explaining the faults ie. loss of power when the air con is on she said expect a 15% loss in power :o a bit more than the 10% in earlier threads. But shes only a receptionist what must ford tell these people. Or do they make it up as they go along

[grant745]

Took my car to the dealers today as i thought the a/c was weak in the hot weater at the weekend. They had a look and i was told thats as cool as it gets !. The service guy said that the a/c is set to only reduce the ambient air temp by 5 or 6 degrees....so when it gets hot, you realy dont get that much cooler in the car and you need to keep the fan on high to get any noticable cooling effect i found. Its the weakest a/c system i have ever had....(its my first Ford )

[MichellefromEssex]

I must say though that my previous two cars, BMW and Merc both had a/c that just cooled the air as apposed to making it ice cold, think the fiesta is the same, I had mine on the other day on the M25 as with the road noise ontop of my loud exhaust it was impossible to have the windows open. However, this week with the weather being really nice, I have not used it and just had the windows open.

I am wondering though if the power loss that Charlie is explaining is a/c related or something totally different, as I have been experiencing power loss since having the mountune upgrade and have just automatically been assuming its related to the upgrade and not a fault with the fiesta itself, be interesting to hear the outcome of his trip to Fords.

[charlie866]

I must say though that my previous two cars, BMW and Merc both had a/c that just cooled the air as apposed to making it ice cold, think the fiesta is the same, I had mine on the other day on the M25 as with the road noise ontop of my loud exhaust it was impossible to have the windows open. However, this week with the weather being really nice, I have not used it and just had the windows open.

I am wondering though if the power loss that Charlie is explaining is a/c related or something totally different, as I have been experiencing power loss since having the mountune upgrade and have just automatically been assuming its related to the upgrade and not a fault with the fiesta itself, be interesting to hear the outcome of his trip to Fords.

Well my trip to Ford told me to expect a 15% loss in power but to me that doesnt explain the flat spots, and the AC is working normally so they say, even though its turning on and off every 20 - 30 secs which I can tell by the clunk that i can hear and the temp change through the vents. Thats without the climate control on just the AC set to LOW. So for now ill persevere until I can find the time to take it to another dealer. And get a second opinion.

[caligator]

hi guys, i think I've got a problem with my air con...

it sometimes cracks inside for about 5 seconds when I turn it on (is it normal?) .... and second thing is that when I turn the engine off I can hear that air con is somehow still working somewhere inside and after about 10 minutes of sitting in the car it turns on for about 7 seconds and then it turns off at last...

Does Your air con work the same??

[chris mf]

Well my trip to Ford told me to expect a 15% loss in power but to me that doesnt explain the flat spots, and the AC is working normally so they say, even though its turning on and off every 20 - 30 secs which I can tell by the clunk that i can hear and the temp change through the vents. Thats without the climate control on just the AC set to LOW. So for now ill persevere until I can find the time to take it to another dealer. And get a second opinion.

Hi,just wondering did you get a second opinion about the air con clicking every 20 secs as my daughter has the same prob.She has only had the car 3 days.Listened to another fiesta and it only clicks when turned on and off.Not sure whether to book it in or not.Its a zetec not auto air con.

[Air Hostess]

Hi,just wondering did you get a second opinion about the air con clicking every 20 secs as my daughter has the same prob.She has only had the car 3 days.Listened to another fiesta and it only clicks when turned on and off.Not sure whether to book it in or not.Its a zetec not auto air con.

I have a Zetec climate with manual A/C, not auto when the engine is running and the A/C is ON ,about evert 20/30 seconds you can hear a click as the compressor turns on and off,my neighbour also has the same car as me and she has the same noise,you cant hear it whilst driving normally, only when you are going very slow (with low engine noise ) or waiting at lights etc (tickover) i have also found that she can feel a jerk on accelleration with the A/C on in her car , I do NOT have this problem .how strange it that ?

[irononreverse]

I have a Zetec climate with manual A/C, not auto when the engine is running and the A/C is ON ,about evert 20/30 seconds you can hear a click as the compressor turns on and off,my neighbour also has the same car as me and she has the same noise,you cant hear it whilst driving normally, only when you are going very slow (with low engine noise ) or waiting at lights etc (tickover) i have also found that she can feel a jerk on accelleration with the A/C on in her car , I do NOT have this problem .how strange it that ?

What engine does she have? I have a 1.25 and it definitely affects the acceleration of the car.. Haven't felt any jerks though.

[Air Hostess]

What engine does she have? I have a 1.25 and it definitely affects the acceleration of the car.. Haven't felt any jerks though.

she has a 1.4i same as me,maybe jerks was a litle harsh, more like hesitation,as i said I dont have this problem,,,,,,,,,well if i do i havn't noticed it,. car goes like a rocket A/C on or off.

[MarkyR]

I ordered my car with the automatic climate control system as it's something I've alway's wanted and never had. I drove to Bath and back today, had it on the whole way and according to the trip computer I averaged about 38.4 to 39mpg which I thought was pretty good? I will stop using it after a week when the novelty wears off lol, but i also think using it for 10 minuets a month is ridiculous.