Steering Vibration

[mjt]

Hi Folks,

For some time now our 03-plate Mk1.5 Ghia estate 1.8TDCi has suffered from a bit of steering vibration. It recently had an MOT and came away with a clean bill of health but needed new front tyres. The front wheels have been re-balanced three times since then but the vibration is still there. It happens from about 65 indicated upwards and is not constant, sometimes it's worse, sometimes barely noticeable. I have noticed that on a gradual bend in the road it comes and goes as though the wheels are going in and out of sync.

At the last balance I specifically asked the the guy to check that the alloys were undamaged and running true and he confirmed they were ok. Also as far as I know the driveshafts are undamaged.

I'm now wondering if the problem is the suspension getting a bit tired and slack - the car's done just over 105K - and therefore less tolerant of any slight imbalance in the wheels and shafts. I just bought a 60-plate Mk2.5 hatch and the handling of that feels so much tighter and more responsive and although I realise the steering geometry is probably different the older car feels distinctly soggy by comparison.

In spite of the clean MOT I wonder if I should have the front shocks replaced. If so what brand should I go for? I notice Euro Car parts list three different makes.

I should be grateful for any help or suggestions.

[martyntdci]

a mot checker will check all steering components/suspension all bushes etc... and will inform if they are getting tired or not..

my initial thought would of been warped discs, as the car has just had its health check

[mjt]

I'd have expected that to show up as vibration during braking but the brakes are very smooth and progressive. The last time I checked the discs for runout (admittedly a while ago, but still when I was experiencing the vibration) they were well within spec.

[martyntdci]

from my experience the brakes don't feel out of place, just a wobble come's in over a certain speed, just cause by heat, ie if you sit at lights with the foot on the pedal etc.... or not running them in properly, or just a bad set..... etc

[jeebowhite]

Bad tyres can also cause vibration.

A tyre under no pressure may flow true on a balance machine, however, a defective or worn tyre under load can easily mishape. So what is a perfect circle on a machine, under the weight of the car can suddenly develop an ever so small egg head in its shape. The faster you go, the more time you bump over that egg, and the more you notice it.

Start off by identifying front or back, does it affect the steering greatly, or is it just vibration? then, swap the front and rear wheels - has the feeling moved or changed? if so, one of your wheels has caused the issue, so its time to track it down.

Get the spare wheel out, pull every wheel off in turn and drive around with the spare, see if you can feel any major difference in handling (you expect there to be something there when you run on a spacesaver, but, does it change at all lower down the speedo?

Either way, this would be my guess. Worn tyres can often give groaning noises like a bad bearing, or the sense of vibration, something as silly as a chunk of stone in the treat can change the feel of a car.

[mjt]

Hi Jeeb, thanks for the contribution. You may have missed that I said it had two new tyres for the MOT. I suppose it's possible there could be a manufacturing fault with one of them but the fact that the vibration existed before suggests to me that it's not tyre related. As for trying the spacesaver spare that limits me to 50mph where it wouldn't be noticeable anyway plus there's no guarantee that's accurately balanced.

At the moment the vibration is not great and can only be felt through the steering. It seems after the first balance one of the weights didn't stay put and then I could feel it through the floor (so could the missus on the passenger side).

What made me wonder about the suspension is that I've noticed on other cars (and I've had a few!) that when they got old and high-mileage they became prone to similar vibration that normal balancing couldn't fully cure. This was the case whether they were FWD or RWD. I've therefore begun to suspect that any extra looseness in the suspension bushes and play in the shocks or steering means that slight imbalance (and even the best machine won't give perfect balance and as you pointed out a stone in the tread can throw it off) doesn't get damped out. Even though the shocks passed the MOT there might be just a few millimetres of free play in their action or a tiny bit of backlash in the steering rack.

Since the car is 11 years old and high mileage it's value doesn't justify shelling out much cash to try to cure the problem. Although it's mildly irritating and I'm aware that it can accelerate wear in the running gear I may have to live with it.

[jeebowhite]

Hi Mike,

I definately saw the comment of the 2 new tyres, but thats only half the tyre set, and given that you had the issue before...

Dont get me wrong, it doesnt fully make sense, but a wobbling back wheel can be felt through the steering, the question of how bad a duff tyre is leads on to how much you feel it. If its a terrible horrible shake your feeling (like your driving over speed bumps continuously mile after mile, that would indicate either an egg for a wheel, or more likely an issue with the steering column, however, if its just a light vibration (almost to describve it as a light buzz going through your hand) then it could still be the rear, travelling through the car to you.

Agree entirely though, its less likely to be the new tyres at fault, but the possibility remains, and as you dont really want to overspend the value of the vehicle on repairs, then its not worth it.

The best thing to do is find an indie garage who offer free health checks on the car. heck - take it to Ford! (certainly near me) all the Retail Ford group do free healtchecks on the car (like a pre MOT) and if your local dealer is more stealer by nature, then they will highlight the tiniest finnickity issue that there could possibly be. "sir you have an absolute gaping hole in your CV joint, the ball will rot and die and kill your goldfish" scenario for nothing more than a pinprick in the gaitor :p

IT really can be something as you say such as a small play in the joint, enough at high labour that its noticed!

Most garages (certainly indies) would be happy to look at things like this for you (whatever you do, dont trust kwik fit to diagnose it without a second and/or third opinion!) but most will happily chuck it on the ramp and check it over for you in the hope that its going to get money out of you. All you need is a couple of feasible arguments to say that the issue is possibly X and then you know if you want to invest in it. if you seem really interested in getting them to fix it then they probably wont charge you anything for looking at it, get the car booked in for say 2 weeks time, and then just as its approaching, call them up and say you had a crisis and have to cancel due to lack of funds replacing the exploded boiler or something - and you will call them back next month to fix it.

I may have done this a couple of times in the past, and never have they chased me :p they tend to be so busy they forget :p

[colinben]

And it could be down to new tires, I put new ones on the front last weekend and noticed a slight vibration in the focus, but I will wait for them to bed in before checking anything else.

Colin

[mjt]

Hi, just a quick update on this. The third time I had the fronts balanced I went a local Protyre depot in case there was a problem with the machine at the original garage. They did find them out of balance but otherwise the wheels and tyres were fine but, as I said, the vibration was still present.

I took it back to them and got them to check over the front suspension for any slackness. They said everything was ok but pointed out that one of the rear tyres was worn down to the tread indicators on the inside edge and the other rear was worn evenly but had cracking in the tread grooves. As they were both well worn I had them changed and the tracking checked. They found the toe was out on both rears, worse on the side with the uneven wear, and one of the fronts and made the necessary adjustments.

Now, with the new rear tyres, the vibration appears to have been almost completely eliminated and as a bonus the tracking adjustments have improved the feel of the steering which tended to be a bit vague before.

[jeebowhite]

Result, so it was more alignment and toe that was the issue?

Sent from my MY SAGA C2 using Ford OC mobile app

[mjt]

No, but I think you were on the right track when you suggested that rear wheel vibration could be transmitted to the front and to be honest I had a suspicion that might be the case myself. I think either the rears had gone out of balance or one or both tyres were out of shape, or a combination of the two.

There is still just a suggestion of vibration (I did say 'almost completely eliminated') which comes and goes, probably as any slight imbalance goes in and out of sync on sweeping curves. I still think that new suspension joints, bushes and shocks would probably damp that out more effectively but I've already spent enough on that old car and I can live with it now.

[jeebowhite]

Well that's still a good result it's mainly improved which makes the car easier to monitor and as you say the extra parts on bushes and shocks can more than likely almost eliminate it

Sent from my MY SAGA C2 using Ford OC mobile app