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Strange Fusion Problem, Help Needed!!!

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#1 INDUSTRYHATER

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Posted 09 June 2014 - 08:04 PM

Hi everybody,

I've just joined the forum in the hope some of you guys might be able to help me out with my Fusion (1.4 tdci 2004). A couple of mechanics haven't managed to help and not only is my wallet empty but I'm a my whits end!

It's a bit long winded but I think I need to start at the beginning so you guys get the full picture.

I've had the car for about 5 years, it's been pretty good, no major problems, just normal wear and tear stuff. It got to the stage where I thought I'd best get the camber done (90k). car was booked in and I had the can let and water pump done. About a week later I had a coolant leak, took the car back and it was a leaking thermostat housing. Had that done and all was good. About a month later and I had another coolant leak, this time it was a pipe at the back of the engine, main dealer only part and that was me skint again. Now this is the point I felt something was amiss, I felt the car was running a little warmer than it should be and I had noticed the fan coming on regularly ( it's loud as hell ). Took the car to the garage for them to have a look and had the injector seals done whilst it was in ( had noticed the smell In the car and the 'puffing noise' under the bonnet) they said it was fine, even though it was running hotter, even though the fan was coming on after really short journeys. Engine is getting up to temp quickly.
I drove it for a few more weeks and still the car fan comes on a lot, sometimes staying on after a short journey and the engines turned off. Once again in I went back to the garage, they say they left it doing for a while and the fan didn't come on, the mechanic then took it for a test drive and came back to tell me the clutch was slipping and that was why it was running hot etc. I thought bull, a clutch making it overheat??? I was aware it was slipping slightly, and I mean slightly but now it was almost un-drivable, god knows how I got it home, the quote for a new clutch was eye watering. I took the car to an a clutch specialist who popped in a new clutch and slave cylinder. The price was slightly more but I was more comfortable knowing a clutch pro had done it. No surprise when I say I still have the problem of it running hot and the fan coming on a hell of a lot, so much so my missus friends comment on the wind turbine under the bonnet, a friend if mine ( he's a mechanic, older Asian guy that takes weeks to do little jobs, nice dude though) got an airlock out which we thought would solve it, unfortunately not. He says the rad is warm so that's fine?? Top and bottom rad hoses are fine, top is hot, bottom is warm. Water is swirling around the expansion tank so the water pump is fine. All this and still I'm no closer to sorting it out.

Has anybody got any ideas??? I'd really appreciate any suggestions or tests I could do. as I've had the car for 5 years I know there is something wrong.

Please excuse any spelling/grammar mistakes, as I'm typing this on my ipad.

Many thanks I'm advance for any help you can provide.

Aaron


Edited by jeebowhite, 09 June 2014 - 09:01 PM.
just removed one naughty word!


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#2 jeebowhite

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Posted 09 June 2014 - 09:07 PM

Hi Aaron,

 

OK so the top pipe is hot, the bottom is warm. That to me sounds like you might have a block somewhere which is not helping. The heat is staying and not circulating to the coolant which is keeping the engine hot.

 

First things first, check the expansion cap, make sure that its not split or cracked, its a cheap fix if thats the case, but I suspect if there is an issue its only part of it.

 

Secondly, I would say you should drain and flush the coolant system. I suspect that the coolant is not working effectively and again is not helping with the temperature... If thing is running on water basically it doesnt work well as a coolant, so you should definately have it drained.

 

I would be trying to find the hot spot on the radiator just before it cools down significantly. Worst case scenario, your looking at a new rad in my opinion, but then again, a decent flush might be just enough to get any blockage out and get the car running better. You might find its worth a trip to a scrappy and remove an old rad as a precuation, you might be able to buy one dirt cheap and keep it there, I would say if you do have a blockage, your probably better off swapping the rad if the flush doesnt work.



#3 INDUSTRYHATER

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Posted 09 June 2014 - 09:20 PM

Hi Aaron,
 
OK so the top pipe is hot, the bottom is warm. That to me sounds like you might have a block somewhere which is not helping. The heat is staying and not circulating to the coolant which is keeping the engine hot.
 
First things first, check the expansion cap, make sure that its not split or cracked, its a cheap fix if thats the case, but I suspect if there is an issue its only part of it.
 
Secondly, I would say you should drain and flush the coolant system. I suspect that the coolant is not working effectively and again is not helping with the temperature... If thing is running on water basically it doesnt work well as a coolant, so you should definately have it drained.



 
I would be trying to find the hot spot on the radiator just before it cools down significantly. Worst case scenario, your looking at a new rad in my opinion, but then again, a decent flush might be just enough to get any blockage out and get the car running better. You might find its worth a trip to a scrappy and remove an old rad as a precuation, you might be able to buy one dirt cheap and keep it there, I would say if you do have a blockage, your probably better off swapping the rad if the flush doesnt work.



Thanks for your reply jebel white;)


Funnily enough a friend suggested I drain the system. Would I do that by just disconnecting the bottom rad pipe?

It does only have water in at the moment as the mechanics that changed the water pump and the other stuff just filled it back up with water, I'll pick up so,e coolant and an expansion cap tomorrow.


Many thanks

#4 stef123

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Posted 09 June 2014 - 09:25 PM

Yep remove the bottom hose.

Use a garden hose to flush through the radiator in both directions if your are going to drain and refill.

To be fair, the top hose should be hotter than the bottom hose, as the radiator is dissipating heat.

#5 jeebowhite

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Posted 10 June 2014 - 10:07 AM

if they only put water in there, there is no surprise that its running so hot.

 

Water has a boiling point of 100 degrees celcius, the engine runs at about 90 - 105 degrees. As such, the water is either already boiling, or is bubbling to the point its nearly there!

 

The Average coolant mixed at 50/50 has a boiling point instead of over 120 degrees. If you mix that 70/30 you have a boiling point above 130 degrees - quite a difference!



#6 stef123

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Posted 10 June 2014 - 11:34 AM

Mind that coolant under pressure has a higher boiling point. Water boils at 100 degrees C in atmospheric pressure (given as 1 bar)

#7 INDUSTRYHATER

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Posted 14 June 2014 - 04:11 PM

Quick update....

The troubles continue. The radiator was flushed with rad clean and topped up with coolant. If anything the problem is worse. The fan is clicks onto its fastest speed within a couple of miles of leaving home from a cold start. The bottom rad pipe is cold, it's slightly warm towards the engine block but from the rad and 3/4 down the length of the pipe it's stone cold. Surely am engine that is hot, no matter how good the rad is, it wouldn't be good enough to turn boiling water cold would it????? Could it possably be a faulty thermostat I've had put on? Any way to check?

Thanks for your help so far guys, it's appreciated.

#8 jeebowhite

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Posted 14 June 2014 - 08:09 PM

nope, I suspect you could be looking at a blockage in the rad then?



#9 martyntdci

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Posted 14 June 2014 - 08:14 PM

deffo a blockage/airlock in the system some where......



#10 INDUSTRYHATER

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Posted 14 June 2014 - 09:02 PM

How do you guys think I should proceed? A new radiator is £50 inc vat, it doesn't look too difficult to do, just connect a few pipes I presume.

Airlock wise, pop the expansion cap off and rev/massage pipes, that sort of stuff?

Thanks

#11 jeebowhite

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Posted 14 June 2014 - 09:17 PM

Start off by trying to get shot of the airlock. Expansion cap off, wheels in the air, car idling, then give it a few revs  then back to normal. repeat the process. Massage the pipes where you can. Some have had to leave the engine idling like this for an hour to get rid of the airlock.

 

If after all this you havent been able to sort it, then perhaps replacing the rad is a good idea, but just give this bit a chance now!

 

I personally would say (as long as the front end is entirely secured upright), it could also help to put the engine under load, so let it run in 1st gear idling and perhaps a few revs. This could make a difference if all else fails.



#12 INDUSTRYHATER

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Posted 15 June 2014 - 01:53 PM

Another update!

Drove the car to the steepest hill I could find and did exactly as suggested, led it idle then gave it some revs (about 3k) whilst massaging the pipes. I then revved it at 4k revs for a minute all so and then all my coolant sprayed out the top of the expansion cap, It went everywhere. Don't know if that's a good sign or bad lol top rad pipe hotter than the bottom pipe which I noticed was warm ( has been stone cold prior ) i don't know if this is of any relavence but when the I squeeze the pipes there's no stiffness/pressure, it's super easy to squeeze.

#13 jeebowhite

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Posted 15 June 2014 - 02:03 PM

Hi Aaron, the fact that the bottom pipes are less ice and more warm to hot, then its a good result, it would suggest that perhaps you have helped to clear the airlock / blockage.

 

As for the pipes being flexible, I think thats correct, they arent meant to be like steel, but then they are not meant to be like straws.

 

How is the temperature gauge behaving now?



#14 INDUSTRYHATER

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Posted 15 June 2014 - 02:59 PM

Just took it out for a spin, luckily I have duel carrageway within a few mins of house. A mile or so down it and the temperature gauge has gone right to the top and the coolant warning light has come on, fan was on all the way home, sounding like an airplane or a huge turbine is under the bonnet.

Such a frustrating problem.

#15 martyntdci

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Posted 15 June 2014 - 04:34 PM

so this is now lack of coolant in the system?



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