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S-Max 2.0 Tdci Engine Malfunction Light


Fornelo
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My MIL and ESP light came back while driving hot (90°C) uphill in highway at 2100rpm (regen to start?).
I managed to read dtc code with a cheap chnese wireless elm before stoping the engine. It reads P2263 - turbocharcher/supercharger boost system performance.
Shall I look into the turbo?

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My MIL and ESP light came back while driving hot (90°C) uphill in highway at 2100rpm (regen to start?).
I managed to read dtc code with a cheap chnese wireless elm before stoping the engine. It reads P2263 - turbocharcher/supercharger boost system performance.
Shall I look into the turbo?

Enviado do meu SM-G930F através do Tapatalk


Just to add that this problem started to appear after I got a failure in high pressure diesel pump. The garage replaced the pump, the camshaft, the rail sensor, flushed the diesel circuit and serviced(cleaned) the injectors. I pushed the car before that intervention and didnt had this problem.

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6 hours ago, jorgemef said:

It reads P2263 - turbocharcher/supercharger boost system performance.
Shall I look into the turbo?

The garage replaced the pump, the camshaft, the rail sensor, flushed the diesel circuit and serviced(cleaned) the injectors.

I think I would check the MAP sensor first, as that is the cheapest, and some places that have pressure testing equipment can test the sensor. Then do some live data recording to see if the fuel rail pressure was holding up ok, and if and when the MAP pressure reading dropped. The basic cause of P2263 must be that the MAP pressure is lower than expected.

Then I think I would suspect the injectors before the Turbo. A HP pump failure has no way to damage the turbo, but it could easily damage injectors. Cylinder balance, leak off testing, a drop in fuel economy, or smoke are all ways to check the injectors. If the injectors are not performing, then exhaust pressure will be lower than expected, so less power for the turbo, so less boost pressure than expected.

Come to think of it, a faulty or wrong fuel rail sensor could cause poor fuel injection, the real rail pressure might be lower than the ECU thinks it is. I am not sure why they replaced this sensor, it is not likely to have been damaged by swarf, it just needed a clean. Unless they thought it was faulty before, and contributed to the fuel pump failure maybe? Bit of an unlikely thing though.

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  • 1 month later...

Is it my impression or rail pressure is the first to go?

Detail is not great as this was taken with a chinese odb2 elm bluethoot and torque app.

Smax limp.PNG

Smax limp 2.PNG

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10 hours ago, jorgemef said:

s it my impression or rail pressure is the first to go?

Pic comes up quite clearly on my system. I can not see any problem with the fuel rail (FRP), it seems to follow movements of the accelerator pedal (APP) as expected, except when maxed out. The max limit of 21,000PSI is about right, I believe it is usually 1500Bar or 21750PSI.

The MAP seems to follow the APP and FRP also, with a little delay which is to be expected.

I can not really see what happens at the end, the APP dips, the RPM dips, then shoots up to a high value. I assume the car was out of gear (or changing gear) when this happened, as the vehicle speed could not have done that. But the MAP did not recover. The more detailed trace does not help much without the APP, which is usually the primary cause of all changes.

You can not rely on tiny time differences between traces at one or two samples level. This data is being extracted over a CAN bus that can only carry one packet at a time, and it is busy carrying lots of other, more urgent, data between all the modules, IC, PCM, ABS & steering possibly. So there will be some variable latency in getting readings. Readings like engine load and vacuum gauge are just calculated from other sensors, so are not essential.

There is also one anomaly between the two APP traces, near the start. It may be just an artifact of the data recording, but worth keeping a watch to see if it repeats.

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2 hours ago, Tdci-Peter said:

I can not really see what happens at the end, the APP dips, the RPM dips, then shoots up to a high value. I assume the car was out of gear (or changing gear) when this happened, as the vehicle speed could not have done that. But the MAP did not recover. The more detailed trace does not help much without the APP, which is usually the primary cause of all changes.

The APP dipped as I got the engine malfunction light and I raised the foot on instinct. I was uphill and allways in the 6th gear until I got the warning light. I raised my foot, changed to a lower gear and proceed in limited mode as I could not park in that spot of the highway.

Adding a cleaner picture with the details you highlighted. 🙂

Smax limp 3.PNG

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22 hours ago, jorgemef said:

I was uphill and allways in the 6th gear until I got the warning light. I raised my foot, changed to a lower gear and proceed in limited mode

I understand a bit better now. Unfortunately I can not identify a clear cause for the warning light.

I assume the reason for the steppiness of all the traces is the limited sample rate, so making time comparisons within one or two of those steps is dodgy. The big drop in FRP looks like one sample time, and could easily be the result of the ECU going into reduced power mode, or even a response to the APP change that appears just one sample later, the ordering of answers via the CAN bus is not guaranteed, especially as the ECU is busy dealing with what it sees as a fault.

The MAP does seem to drop a bit a few samples earlier, but that could be in response to the small APP change just before that.

If the FRP was the primary cause, I would expect such a large change to raise a fuel pressure DTC, not a turbo one.

The RPM drop matches the FRP drop, so either the RPM reading is wrong (CAN bus or sensor error) or it happened while changing gear, again suggesting the APP trace is a bit delayed compared to the real sequence of events.

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  • 2 weeks later...

Just as a quick follow up on my issues from a page or 2 ago. I finally got round to stripping the egr valve and exhaust manifold down and cleaning the variable geometry side of the turbo with mr muscle oven cleaner (yes you read that right) and the car now feels amazing to drive so smooth and quieter even. The turbo was very carboned up so the vanes where not moving smoothly. Also cleaned and lubed the egr valve at the same time. 

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  • 5 months later...

I have the same sypthoms as Robdav99. The car can drive fine for several miles then syddenly engine malfunction appears. Use Forscan to do a reset the car and after that the error can appear fast or the car can act normal again. EGR blended.

Any idea where to start searching for error?

This is the log from last scan.

===PCM DTC P1335:1C-68===
Code: P1335 - EGR Position Sensor Minimum Stop Performance
Additional Fault Symptom:
 - Circuit Voltage Out Of Range
Status: 
 - Preveiously Set DTC - Not Present at Time of Request
 - Malfunction Indicator Lamp is Off for this DTC
 - Test not complete
Module: Powertrain Control Module
Diagnostic Trouble Code details
Possible causes :
An electrical fault in the EGR control circuit.
Sticking EGR Valve
Do not renew any components until all pinpoints associated with this DTC are complete.
===END PCM DTC P1335:1C-68===


===PCM DTC P2263:73-EC===
Code: P2263 - Turbocharger/Supercharger A Boost System Performance
Additional Fault Symptom:
 - Actuator Stuck Closed
Status: 
 - DTC Maturing - Intermittent at Time of Request
 - Malfunction Indicator Lamp is On for this DTC
 - Test not complete
Module: Powertrain Control Module
Diagnostic Trouble Code details

Possible causes :
An electrical fault in the Turbocharger control circuit.
MAP sensor electrical failure.
Inspect connectors for signs of damage, water ingress, corrosion, etc.
If the code is set at idle renew the turbocharger. If the code is not set at idle investigate faults with the MAP.
===END PCM DTC P2263:73-EC===


===OBDII DTC P2263-C===
Code: P2263 - Turbocharger/Supercharger A Boost System Performance
Status: 
 - Confirmed - malfunction is confirmed 
Module: On Board Diagnostic II
Diagnostic Trouble Code details
Possible causes :
An electrical fault in the Turbocharger control circuit.
MAP sensor electrical failure.
Inspect connectors for signs of damage, water ingress, corrosion, etc.
If the code is set at idle renew the turbocharger. If the code is not set at idle investigate faults with the MAP.
===END OBDII DTC P2263-C===


 

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1 hour ago, Arntos said:

Any idea where to start searching for error?

I would do some live data logging with Forscan to verify if the MAP seems to be reading ok. While the turbo is working, the MAP reading should roughly track the accelerator pedal (APP), peaking at about 240kPa (2.4 bar) and dropping to 100kPa (1 bar) with the throttle closed.

LOG-3.PNG

If the MAP is ok, next most likely suspect is the turbo vane control. It could just be dirty and sticky, or worn, or there could be a fault in the electronic actuator. I think the 2l (and 1.8) have the Hella electronic unit, which is usually reliable, but there are some common faults, with youtubes about them (mostly on Mondeos I think).

In any case, removing either the actuator or the complete turbo would be needed to properly test, clean & fix it.

I would leave the EGR until any MAP or turbo problems have been fixed. The ECU does sometimes get very confused with multiple faults, and makes incorrect assumptions.

 

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Ok, I`ll try to check this. Forscan stil shows P1335 error on the EGR.

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  • 1 month later...

This is the result. Looks OK... The car has worked fines last weeks, but yesterday engine lamp came on again...

 

1042230956_2020-01-1720_53_04-FORScanv2.3.25betaFordGalaxy_S-MaxDuratorqTurboDieselCommonRailInject.thumb.png.a0138d721ed96c10437ea0ed2200b5ed.png

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On 2/10/2020 at 12:11 PM, Arntos said:

Looks OK... The car has worked fines last weeks, but yesterday engine lamp came on again

Yes, those signals look sensible. Getting up to the right values, and falling quickly enough when the APP drops, so no sign of the mechanism sticking.

It seems that it has to be an intermittent electrical fault. The 2l TDCI has a bit of a reputation for them! Removing connectors, cleaning them with meths or contact cleaner maybe, and bending or moving wires about can sometimes help track down these faults, but it is often a long process. Wires to MAP, MAF, Turbo actuator, EGR, etc, are the most obvious candidates.

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Jippi, sounds like a never ending story. Found a broken pink wire earlier, causing the fan and dpf not to work... 

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  • 5 months later...

I've a ford s max too, had diesel leak went in to garage but now engine light keeps coming on and driver door won't unlock or lock using key. I've been back to garage 3 times to have the light knocked off. They now want car back in to see what's wrong. These extra faults have only appeared after the leak was looked at. Any help appreciated.

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  • 4 weeks later...

Hi claire u seem u have more informations comparing to garage man I have the p003a appear in dash board . Engine malfuction with traction control and losing power obviously so any idea or help please thanks 

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Follow up on my case. Turbo was rebuilt with new wastegate valve and turbo core. Works like a charm now. No more codes uphill.

I had tried everything including hoven cleaner on the hot side. :) Went for cleaning, also no go. Then went for specialist. The position sensor was bad so all valve was replaced. Better but codes still coming. Finally core was replaced. There was no noticeable play but was not turning completely free like the new core. After core replacement all was well finally.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

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  • 3 months later...

Johnny76! Where did he go ? I have exact prob ! What was his fix ? Omg if only I could ask him 

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