PH001 Posted July 9, 2014 Share Posted July 9, 2014 Hi all,Hope you can help - had the car a couple of years and it recently developed a noisy rattle when starting from cold, lasts approx 2-3 seconds.I also sometimes noticed the power drop considerably for example when climbing a hill in 3rd gear. It would then return to normal some time later.Now the engine management light has come on. I popped a code reader on it and it came up with P0017 (camshaft/crankshaft position correlation error, bank 1 sensor B). I removed the 2 solenoids and they both work fine so I guess I am left with the VCT pulley unit.It's also starting leaking oil badly, hard to see exactly where from but I suspect the VCT pulley unit.Most of you have probably already seen this link which shows how the VCT operates... http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=f8uJktVbbd8So my question is has anybody done a DIY repair on the VCT pulleys and if so, what is involved? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
artscot79 Posted July 9, 2014 Share Posted July 9, 2014 Had it replaced under warranty its expensive and difficult to do it requires a whole new cam unit a new timing belt new tensioner and rocker gasket then an oil flush then it needs put on the computer to check the variator is in sync etc oil pressure at the variator the only other possibility is theres a brass neck in the head for the oil which supplies the variator if the car hasnt been serviced properly or regularly with an engine flush this gets blocked sadly once this happens the head needs removed to get to it as for diy i wouldnt touch it its expensive and best left to those who know how i believe parts alone were around £500 on mine for the variators the oil and flush timing belt kit aux belt new cam bolts etc etc Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PH001 Posted July 10, 2014 Author Share Posted July 10, 2014 Car had really good service history when I bought it (oil change every 8-9000 miles) and I have serviced it with correct oil and filters every 6 months (about 5000 miles). I can't see there being a lot of change from £1,000 to have this done at a delaer and car is only worth about £2k so not really worth doing I don't think. Looking around the web it looks like the intake camshaft one is the most likely culprit. Will obviously also require a cambelt change but Sealey do a tool for setting it all up.http://www.google.co.uk/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=web&cd=3&cad=rja&uact=8&ved=0CDAQFjAC&url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.tooled-up.com%2Fartwork%2FProdPDF%2FVS4930.pdf&ei=zY--U7CNG_LQ7AbG7oHACQ&usg=AFQjCNHXrWSyepCOUZ8BicXfij3dRS4gwg&sig2=G_QUNSWt_GkwtQPqaNoL9wI just can't find any reference to anybody doing it themselves. I also read about the brass filter in the head which sounds like a crazy idea to me! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pky Posted July 10, 2014 Share Posted July 10, 2014 If you're near Hull. Give Mastertech, an Independent Ford Specialist a look. Cost £580 to fix. Mine has a full service history but was obviously suffering from the VCT problem as it sounded like a diesel at idle at about 102k. It got to 110k before it got fixed. Just suffered from lack of power up hill etc. Now I'm at 135k and it's quiet as a mouse at idle and pulls fine. You watch famous last words hahaha Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
artscot79 Posted July 10, 2014 Share Posted July 10, 2014 A good knowlegdable indy could do it easily as above so its worth a try it may be worth 2k but if £600 fixes it its cheaper than another car and the replacement units dont tend to cause issues so they may be upgraded parts Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PH001 Posted July 24, 2014 Author Share Posted July 24, 2014 Can anybody tell me the Ford part no's for the cam variator units? There doesn't appear to be anywhere you can look Ford parts up FOC? VIN is: WF05XXWPD56L87632 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
artscot79 Posted July 24, 2014 Share Posted July 24, 2014 I couldnt find them either i had to call ford up i couldnt find them except from ford either Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PH001 Posted July 24, 2014 Author Share Posted July 24, 2014 I did call them but they struggled to understand which part I was talking about. I don't think they know it as a cam variator. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pky Posted July 24, 2014 Share Posted July 24, 2014 When I had it sorted this is what they needed to change. It's from an email "VCT pulley & solenoid inlet only £420 Both pulleys & solenoids £580 Inc new cam bet kit as it is recommend to be replace if removed" It's not much to go on I know. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PH001 Posted July 25, 2014 Author Share Posted July 25, 2014 Thanks PKY. I'm a little confused at that - did they end up changing both pulleys and solenoids then? Looking at that, one might assume the a single variator (which I'm guessing they call the VCT pulley) and solenoid would be £160. So the variator around £130 perhaps. I'll give them another call today and explain it as the VCT pulley, see if that helps them identify it properly. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
artscot79 Posted July 25, 2014 Share Posted July 25, 2014 you have to change both pulleys as theres no way of knowing which one is faulty so both need to be replaced Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PH001 Posted July 25, 2014 Author Share Posted July 25, 2014 Sure, I was just trying to figure out individual part prices as I can get a Gates cambelt kit for a lot less than what Ford will rob you for. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
artscot79 Posted July 25, 2014 Share Posted July 25, 2014 yeah thats true i just ordered a new locking nut key from mcgaurd ford price £46.00 mcgard the manufacturers price including shipping from abroad £13.00 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pky Posted July 28, 2014 Share Posted July 28, 2014 Yes both where replaced. Arthur, I'm sure you recommended on a previous thread that this engine benefits from a flush on an oil change. Is it a good idea on a high mileage engine? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
artscot79 Posted July 28, 2014 Share Posted July 28, 2014 it does indeed and it wont harm it ford will do a flush on it during a service when i asked why they explain that the vct relies on oil pressure to work and if the oil galleries get restricted even slightly it can cause issues thats why they give it a flush ive had no issues since this has been done Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PH001 Posted July 28, 2014 Author Share Posted July 28, 2014 Yes, a flush may help but regular oil chages with fully synth is the way to go (I'd recommend half the usual service interval), then you shouldn't get any sludge or carbon build up in the first place. It's also important to get the oil upto temperature every couple of weeks with a decent motorway run. Lots of short trips could mean it never gets hot enough to evaporate the moisture out of the oil which builds up over time due to condensation, especially in colder weather. Saying that, I don't think the majority of VCT failures are due to blocked galleries. Failures tend to begin with a rattle on startup which lasts 1-2 seconds. This suggests a mechanical failure within the timing variator unit (there is no oil presure in first couple of seconds anyway, so during this time at should be at the default setting with no audible rattle). They seem to start failing between 60 and 80K miles. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
artscot79 Posted July 28, 2014 Share Posted July 28, 2014 I get regular ford only services and they always do the flush causrs me no issues so i leave them to it its recommended so not so fussed the upgraded vct units that replaces the one you have in seem more robust its not unusual volvos have the same issue and so do some hondas its the fact ive seen some who hear the injector slap and think its the vct unit injector slap is normal on the newer focuses you dont hear it as they put padding under the bonnet but open one on start up you hear it clear as day Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
saklak Posted August 7, 2014 Share Posted August 7, 2014 I started to hear a sound like that a month or two ago and I only hear it when I start the car after a few days. I have no error yet and works just fine. Can be something else other than this ? Can I do anything right now or should I wait for an error or something ? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
artscot79 Posted August 7, 2014 Share Posted August 7, 2014 as said it can be injectors slapping which is normal a ticking noise nothing to worry about they all do it Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
saklak Posted August 7, 2014 Share Posted August 7, 2014 Since you had the problem do you think that if you hear the sound you know which one is it ? I can record each car start till I get that sound.. could take a few days :) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PH001 Posted August 7, 2014 Author Share Posted August 7, 2014 There is no way you would mistake it for injector noise - it's much more 'metallic' and heavy in nature. It actually sounds a lot like some vauxhall engines which had hydraulic valve shims (take a few seconds to presurise with oil after been stood a while). It's not the same mechanism in this case though as the valve clearances have nothing to do with the VCT and Ford don't use hydraulic shims anyway. It must be some mechanical failure within the VCT unit which causes the rattle. When I replace mine I will strip a VCT unit down to see if I can get to it's gizzards! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Effingfocus Posted May 20, 2015 Share Posted May 20, 2015 Hi all. First post and I've signed up because searching for my problem led me to this post. I've just bought a 2006 1.6 Ti-VCT Focus for my son. 79,000 miles on the clock. It had an occasional rattle on startup but there was no consistency to it - one moment it would rattle after switching off for half an hour but then wouldn't do it when left overnight. Next day could be the opposite. First thing I did was change the oil & filter using 5W/30 fully synthetic. No flush though. Would start and run fine, the only problem being that when driving it, it wouldn't reach working temperature. I suspected the thermostat and on stripping it I found that the lugs that hold it into the plastic housing had broken and it was floating loose. This thermostat comes complete with the housing so I replaced that and now the temperature when driving is spot on in the middle of the gauge. But...... As soon as it warms up it runs flat. If you continue driving after about 20-30 minutes the engine management light comes on. Fault code P000A comes up which, amongst other things, COULD indicate a mechanical fault. As I've still to change the cam belt kit, and because of the occasional rattle, I'm changing the two VCT units while it's all off. The part numbers and prices (for someone that asked earlier) are F1796573 at £57.83 and F1798086 at £59.82. Both prices are plus VAT although my son works at Fords and with his staff discount the pair including VAT came to £98.84). I have the belt and tensioner kit already and I'm just waiting for my cam and engine locking kit to arrive from amazon (£55). Reading this, I'm going to give it a flush and another oil and filter change before doing the job but I'll keep you all posted as to whether I have any success! Bye for now. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Effingfocus Posted May 25, 2015 Share Posted May 25, 2015 !Removed! amazon. Still waiting for a tool that was ordered on May 7th. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
saklak Posted May 25, 2015 Share Posted May 25, 2015 Hey I'm watching this also.Hope that fixes your problems. Can you maybe post a link also with the parts ? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PH001 Posted May 25, 2015 Author Share Posted May 25, 2015 This should help... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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