Shall I Fight The Garage?

[TheRookie]

Sorry for the long post,,, I am fuming now!

My other car is Toyota Prius (yes, I know) and my missus loves it - it is fairly quick from standstill, automatic and got lots of gadgets inside.

Several years ago the car have developed a squealing noise in a driver's side rear wheel area. I kept complaining to Toyota but they couldn't find anything.

The car was (and still is) doing about 30K miles per year so I was telling them about this problem roughly 3 times/year (the Toyota got 10K miles between services, not 12.5K as Ford does).

Lo and behold my wife simply ignored the noise and kept driving until last weekend the noise became unbearable.

This time I took it to an independent (as the car is now out of warranty) and his verdict was that the both rear calipers seized and only one pad was in operation for each wheel. The rear discs looked sort of polished on the inside but pretty much untouched and horrendously rusty on the outside. He sorted the calipers, replaced discs and pads and the noise that has plagued the car for several yeard miraculously gone.

The independent garage guy was outraged by the fact that Toyota dealer couldn't find the problem as he said it is very obvious for anyone who is just starting training, not to mention professionals, that the brakes weren't working. He advised for me to complain to Toyota, something I did.

Toyota's position is that they did warn me about rusty discs and therefore my allegations of their negligence are unfounded. To be fair to them they did mark rear discs as "red" in paperwork during last servicing and gave me quote for the job. This is documented in the paperwork. However, what is not documented are two facts:

1. Their customer service guy told me that the discs can do survive until next service (Priuses are notoriously light on brakes as it got regenerative system; 150K from set of pads is not something unheard of). Obviously, this was verbal and not in writing.

2. They have no written evidence that I ever complained about the squealing noise.

All in all, their service manager (a very polite and well mannered guy, I must admit) firmly told me that I stand no ground and it is my own fault for not following their advice and not replacing disks/pads back then. He dismissed the fact I was given verbal advice that I can wait until next service as undocumented and something I won't be able to prove or disprove. Basically he described it as "he said/ she said" situation.

The car passed MOT e/o March without rear disk notes. The independent garage guy says that this car should have failed MOT on a ground that the rear brakes weren't working judging by amount of rust on disks and calipers. He also said that he is willing to give this statement in court if needed. However, he didn't put this in writing.

In short, shall I fight Toyota for overlooking seized calipers during several services (which implies they didn't do their job properly) or shall I put it to the rest and swallow the bill?

[Ianb]

I'd like to say fight them, but unless they OR YOU (video, hidden camera) have any evidence of you saying it's squealing then I'd imagine it would go down a bit like this:

Person A:

"Boss, we've just had a customer coming in who said he wants us to pay his bill as he has just got seized calipers sorted out from xyz garage."

Boss: "soo...he wants US to pay for his bill? What has it got to do with us?"

Person A: "He's saying we didn't find that fault in the previous services, and that he told us there was a squeal.."

Boss: "Is there any mention of this 'squeal' complaint or caliper problems in the service history?"

Person A: "nope..."

Boss: "well then, tell him to go **** himself"

[TheRookie]

Yup, that's what I thought. I think I'll do two things:

1. Lodge complaint with Toyota UK customer service

2. Take my two cars business elsewhere.

[Ianb]

Probably the best bet.

They have us over a barrell, in that "should we trust garages" thread I wrote how a garage jacked my car up on one side using the body work skirt and left two nasty impressions. It's just out of sight so naturally I didn't see it until recently when I was washing the car and felt it. I've since been in touch with them and they are 'investigating it'.. but we all know it'll lead to nothing...

I know they weren't on there before the car went into this place and I know the last time it was jacked up would have been by them and now a few months down the line I've noticed the marks.. It doesn't take a genius to put 2+2 together, but using my formula above, it'll just sound like I'm trying to pin an error (either mine or someone else's) on their garage and there's no way they'll pay for it. - Even if they do remember doing it, there is no paperwork, I didn't notice it and as I said it's been a few months so there is the whole "why are you only just contacting us now, this late after?" thing...

barstewards...

[SandyCat]

In the old days the pads wore out and the discs lasted forever but now as certain materials in pads have been banned making them more abrasive it's both discs and pads that wear out. Also rear brakes are used less than the fronts so they can rust if not used hard enough so an emergency brake now and again is a good idea to clean surface rust off. In your case it seems the brakes were wrongly adjusted but unless you wrote to the garage within warranty by recorded delivery you have little to no evidence. I would recommend you put it down to experience and move on as I think you would be lucky to get anywhere with this one.

[kevzs960]

Without a full brake inspection being carried out. Chargable to yourself until it was found to be warrantble (if it was covered by warranty) and them marking the brakes in red on the health check report. And if theres no written evidence of the squealing noise. Im afraid you havnt really got a leg to stand on in a court of law.

The way that service advisors see it sometimes are that if you decline the work its your fault and responsibillaty if anything has a knock on effect. And i wouldnt listern to a service advisor if a technician has marked something in the red.

service advisors (sorry about the stereotypes) are normally just pen pushers without a mechanical qualification etc. And doubt as the technician who has spent 3-4 years becoming qualified and has X ammount of experience...id be sure he/she would be happy to help.

For you to stand a chance everything has to be documented in this trade. As for it passing the m.o.t if it produced a good effiecency or the wheels locked out on the brake tester its an automatic pass. It will not show a fault if it has passed in this way.

You could complain to toyota uk customer services and if your a big enough tool then you might get somewhere...but i doubt it.

This trade is very much about pinning the blame on somebody else and covering your backside as much as possible (first hand experience) if its not documented its chinese whispers.

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[Lenny]

Yup, that's what I thought. I think I'll do two things:

1. Lodge complaint with Toyota UK customer service

2. Take my two cars business elsewhere.

i know this cat he's from Russia whom does missions on request in exchange for Felix foil pouches,

Can pass on his mobile number if you like?

[TheRookie]

Thanks guys for the advice.

I will still complain to Toyota even if it'll get me nowhere but at least I'll have that feeling that I did something.

Still hate the whole situation and kicking myself for not documenting every complaint properly. :(

i know this cat he's from Russia..

Lenny, guess what? I am 6.4" bloke originally from Russia... Don't give me ideas :)

[Ianb]

The other thing is, you never know what they might do if the complaint is entered in above the garages heads.

Sometimes companies just offer something to get you to pipe down if you're making enough noise...

[Lenny]

Lenny, guess what? I am 6.4" bloke originally from Russia... Don't give me ideas :)

i thought you was an Owl,

Sorry mate just trying to lighten the mood, and Russia accent sounds good in james bond movies etc.

[TheRookie]

Yup, ze akcent sounds gud in moveez but didn't vork for mee zis time :(

As to the owl thing... I've read a poem where an owl was described as a mysterious creature that silently rides the pitch black winds of the night.

Not sure about the "silent" bit but my Focus is pitch black and I love night driving :)

[Stoney871]

Surely the brakes should have picked up on MOT when they did the braking efficiency test?

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[Stoney871]

вам нужно позвонить русской мафии на них

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[TheRookie]

Surely the brakes should have picked up on MOT when they did the braking efficiency test?

Well, they say that the fact that the car passed MOT proves there was nothing wrong with the brakes.

It is possible that the inside pad alone had enough force to get the car through the MOT I guess.

вам нужно позвонить русской мафии на них

Heh, Google translate is a wonderful thing, isn't it? :) This is more like it::

Настучи на них русской мафии OR

Свяжись с русской мафией, пусть разберутся.

:)

[Stoney871]

не Google Translate, я могу читать и писать Основной России

[Stoney871]

я сделал языковые курсы в армии ;)

[jeebowhite]

can you too stop your russian flirting thing ;) :p

I would say lodge a complaint, but dont take it as far as court. Its a lot of experience, and technicdally just because they marked the brakes as red means that you should have followed up on it and gotten a seperate investgiation done on them.

Toyota probably will do no more than tell them to buck their idea's up, this is the best you can hope for, and although no direct satisfaction to you, I would say do it for the same reason I am prosecuting someone - to stop it happening to someone else.

[TheRookie]

Flirting? What flirting? I was just trying to ferret out the last remaining British military secret's that's all.

The fact that the company I work for is located on RAE airfield is a totally different matter... :D

Yup, I contacted Toyota UK and they said they'll look into this. I really don't expect much from their investigation though.

[Stoney871]

они просто завидуют ;)

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[jeebowhite]

yeah yeah, espionage and spying is one thing, but flirting in russian.... :p

Good luck with the claim mate, I dont think you will get a great deal for your troubles if anything - but I hope you do!

[TheRookie]

они просто завидуют ;)

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Чему? Тому, что мы общаемся по русски? :)

[TheRookie]

yeah yeah, espionage and spying is one thing, but flirting in russian.... :P

Good luck with the claim mate, I dont think you will get a great deal for your troubles if anything - but I hope you do!

Espionage?! What espionage? Me no understand, yes? :)

On a more serious note if I ever hear anything from Toyota, I'll post it here. Just don't hold your breath :)

[Stoney871]

Чему? Тому, что мы общаемся по русски? :)

да :)