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Egr Blanking On Euro 4


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#1 Nate6874

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Posted 16 August 2014 - 09:10 AM

Morning all.
I've been reading a lot of positive feedback on the whole blanking the egr scenario.
I have 2.0 tdci euro 4 and understand that there are some "issues" surrounding this. I'm led to understand it's not just a simple blank and go.? I read somewhere that I have to reroute the water pipes for the cooler and blank at egr and cooler end. I also understand that it's best practice to remove the inlet manifold and give it a good clean too.
Any help or advice would be gratefully received.

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#2 SandyCat

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Posted 16 August 2014 - 11:11 AM

The jury is out on Euro 4 blanking.   It makes the dash light come on which some mind, some don't except now a light on the dash fails the MOT.....  Personally I don't like it and never blanked mine.

In theory a proper operating EGR shouldn't need blanking anyway.

On the Euro 3 it gave better results and didn't always make the light come on.

The manifold and EGR gets gunged up with carbon deposits and taking them off and cleaning is worthwhile but very messy.

My advice is to use a can of BG244 in a tank of quality diesel and give it a good blast down the motorway (legal of course)....an Italian tune up they call it !

 

One final thing is the EGR had a design fault.    It has a small water drain hole underneath which blocks.   The water from the exhaust then builds up inside causing it to rust and the EGR fails.   If yours is OK it's worth cleaning it (it comes apart but be careful with the gears inside) and use a drill to enlarge the hole.    If fitting a new EGR enlarge the drain hole before fitting. 



#3 FOCA

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Posted 16 August 2014 - 02:19 PM

There are many misconceptions about EGRs blanking plates etc -

 

#1 - you might think a working EGR valve would be best for your car/ engine, as this was how the car ws designed - WRONG:- even a brand new EGR valve in perfect condition contaminates the inlet (including the manifold, inlet ports etc) with carbon, causes hesitation, flat spots etc - a working EGR valve is BAD NEWS for your engine

 

#2 even if you clean out your inlet manifold (this requires taking it off and cleaning it with petrol and/or a high powered jetwash) every so often, if you are running an unblanked EGR it will eventually just fill up again - this can "choke" the engine - once you fit your solid plate and clean out your inlet manifold, the innlet manifold will stay clean - so no need to continually clean it out

 

#3 the whole concept of recirculating exhaust gasses (a waste product) and feeding them back into the inlet is a bad one, diesel engines run best on clean air, and diesel - not exhaust gases - its a bit like a human eating his/her waste - not good

 

#4 on modern deisels, the EGR valve opens only at part-throttle at lower revs - this is when you get the flat spot (aka hesitation or lag) when the enine ingests burnt exhaust gases instead of air (the burnt exhaust gases reduce or prevent combustion because they do not contain oxegen like air does)

 

#5 Any emmission control system that reduces MPG (even by a small amount) may have a worse long term effect on the enviroment due to the enviromental impact of having to produce more fuel - a diesel without a DPF or EGR is more efficient, energy and resources do not have to be used to produce the DPF/EGR, + when the DPF/EGR get filled up/ old or faulty, tey can have a worse effect on emmissions than not having one.

 

#6 - often, these things are political rather than technical, eg eurocrats/ politicians say "look what we are doing to help emmissions/ the enviroment" - even when they don't really work

 

#7 - when the car/ engine is new, the EGR valve may help emmisions, (but even then has a negative effect on MPG, performance efficiency, and that extra (even small amount of) fuel (multiplied by all the cars fitted with an operational EGR valve) can have a worse impact on the enviroment compared to not having an operational EGR valve - as the car gets older the inlet gets choked up, further reducing MPG, performance and efficiency, and increasing smoke output (or choking up the DPF, if one is fitted) this is even assuming the EGR does not fail, as if it does things can get much worse than that (with a leaky or permenantly stuck open EGR valve the car can produce a smoke screen james bond would be jealous of)

 

So the long term negative effect of fitting an EGR valve in the 1st place (or running without a blanked/ disabled or deleted valve) may be worse than running with a solid plate(etc), on the envioroment , as well as definately for reliability, elimination of flat spots hesitation and lag and preventing the inlet being contaminated

 

#8 after a solid plate is fitted there is no problem with moisture/ rust, draining water as the EGR valve is disabled anyway

 

#9 it is not nessesary to fit the solid blanking plate on the EGR cooler on a mk3 mondeo diesel, it can be fitted next to the EGR valve you can get solid plates that slot in (you don't even need to take the nuts off, just loosten them) - a solid plate is essential, ones with holes defeat the purpose of the plate, the EGR valve must be working properly to fit plates with holes, a solid plate can "fix" a faulty/ leaking EGR valve, by effectively disabling it - 2 solid plates can also be fitted (one next to the EGR valve, another next to the cooler) and the egr pipe removed

 

#10 the EGR valve has a design fault - it exists!

 

I am an engineer, I designed/ developed the first EGR delete kit for rear-mounted EGR Mondeos,about 9 years ago then improved the design, this has been copied and made into a commercial product, i have been an advocate for fitting solid plates and have advised and encouraged forum members to fit solid plates, and have helped to promote the resurgence of interest in the subject

 

I collect information on the subject and listen to feedback from members/ Ford owners that have fitted solid plates, i try to discourage misconseptions/ misinformation about the subject, especially from those that have never fitted a solid plate or understand the princepals etc

 

I suppose with the 9years of running without an EGR valve (i don't and wouldent have one on my car, i sold mine on ebay years ago!) + designing the delete system + following the subject for years + my technical knowledge = my involvement in advising/ discussing fitting them on the forum must make me an "expert"

 

I understand others have their opinions - and they are entitled to them, it is a subject i feel strongly about and don't mean to cause offence, of even to discourage members to express their opinions or to debate this, or other topics



#4 jimbro

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Posted 16 August 2014 - 03:17 PM

That's probably the best post I have seen on this subject, explaining in detail why blanking is good.

Even on my old Pajero's, I was always told "blank the EGR" but never why. I never did it

 

I'm gonna order a plate now :)

 

Re the dash warning light. Other than remove the bulb, is there any way to fool it?



#5 Nate6874

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Posted 16 August 2014 - 05:01 PM

Thanks Foca.
You've pretty much told me what I wanted/needed to hear. Knowing that you are an engineer and having years knowledge and experience with the egr is great too and I'm happy it's not just a gimmicky "mod"
Having spent a couple of hours removing/ cleaning my egr, refitting it and taking it for a quick tear I'm positive it's made a difference. There was a massive plume of black smoke when I planted my foot between 30 and 50. Strangely enough she starts easier now too. Not sure if that had any impact or not. When the egr plate arrives I'll strip off inlet manifold too and go at her with a pressure washer or my trusty steam cleaner.

#6 Nate6874

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Posted 17 August 2014 - 11:55 AM

So I took the car for a 40 minute drive at motorway speeds, stopped off for a bit then same back, only problem is car felt like it was a bit lumpy then cut out at somewhere in the region of 70 mph. With a flashing glow plug symbol on the dash. Switched the ignition off and waited, tried to restart and no luck, left for another 20 seconds turned engine over and pumped accelerator and it kicked back into life. Drove home fine, didn't cut out again. Any ideas? Funny how it's just after cleaning egr.

#7 mixmasterlooney

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Posted 17 August 2014 - 05:31 PM

Could be your er is working better as a result of cleaning pumping more carbon in that before causing a bad mixture. That should change as the car settles down to a new mixture

#8 Nate6874

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Posted 17 August 2014 - 06:35 PM

I also decided to treat her to a tank full of shell premium diesel so it could have all been a bit much for her. Clean egr, clean fuel.

#9 Steve Jarvis

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Posted 17 August 2014 - 08:51 PM

What an absolutely brilliant post, I purchased a blanking plate for my Mk3 a couple of weeks ago. Was planning on fitting it today but the car is stuck

in Cheltenham (I live in Norfolk) with a knackered clutch.

Don't have any really good info on clutches by any chance???



#10 Nate6874

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Posted 17 August 2014 - 09:41 PM

I have mine in Tuesday for clutch and dmf. £722 of work. Ouch.

#11 Steve Jarvis

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Posted 17 August 2014 - 09:43 PM

That was I was figuring it being about that much! Have you gone for the single mass conversion or sticking with the dual?


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#12 Nate6874

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Posted 17 August 2014 - 10:29 PM

I was advised against the conversion as it is supposed to eventually shake the engine to pieces. Apparently ford do a conversion for the rear wheel drive transit but not front wheel drives.

#13 SandyCat

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Posted 18 August 2014 - 01:47 PM

Your ECU is re-learning after the clean and should settle down.   When I took my EGR apart and saw it had rusted for the reasons I gave in my post above I simply replaced it (after making the drain hole bigger) and it worked perfectly until I eventually sold the car.  At the end of the day if your valve is shot no amount of cleaning it will work.  

 

I applaud FOCA on his passionate essay but the original poster said he has a Euro 4 and I said the EML light will fail his MOT.  I did mention that EGR blanking worked better on the Euro3.

I am sure that the expert FOCA will be able to explain how to blank the Euro 4 and guarantee the EML light will not come on and fail the MOT.   I hope there is a way now (there certainly wasn't during the years I was on the forums and had my Euro 4) as this will help a lot of people.

I don't want Nate to fake the EML light from coming on to get through the MOT because this can disguise any genuine faults that may occur later....



#14 Nate6874

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Posted 18 August 2014 - 05:03 PM

Well went out to car this morning and she did not want to start. Foot flat on accelerator peddle and eventually burst into life.... Money pit!

#15 FOCA

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Posted 18 August 2014 - 07:34 PM

That's probably the best post I have seen on this subject, explaining in detail why blanking is good.

Even on my old Pajero's, I was always told "blank the EGR" but never why. I never did it

 

I'm gonna order a plate now :)

 

Re the dash warning light. Other than remove the bulb, is there any way to fool it?

On a Euro4 Mondeo (Focuses can be different) the EML/ dash light is liable to come on eventually, if a solid EGR blanking plate is fitted, no other negative effects should happen, the EML can be reset with a code reader, many Euro4 Mondeo owners chose to run thir cars like that (with the disadvantage of having to reset thier EML but with all the advantages of a solid plate )

 

There was some talk on other forums about a remmaper that claimed to be able to reset/ electronically delete the EGR,(so the EML did not come on) this could be done on other cars but not on Mk3 Mondeos - it is possible to do theoretically but no-one supplies a service to bo it (to my knowlege)  

 

Its the glow plug light as well and it may need to come on and stay off for the MOT, an under-dash "off" switch could be easily be connected (by someone with a knowlege of electrics/ electronics) or the plate removed for the MOT

 

Ive read all kinds of ideas (some by people that obviously don't know how the EGR works) but the best way seems just to stick a solid plate on and ignore the EML or keep resetting the codes with a code reader on a Euro4 mk3 Mondeo  



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