"running In" The Car

[MarksST]

Phil no sadly not. This is because they want to appeal to the fleet buyers. The fleets buy in huge numbers and cost is everything. If they were told to change the oil at 1000 then every 6 months or whatever it would put them off buying that car. So now you see this ridiculous trend of manufacturers suggesting services at every 15000 or even 20000 miles simply to appeal to the fleet buyer.

But the private owner needs to try and ignore this. Stick to annual oil changes regardless of low mileage and more often for very high milers. With turbo cars in particular it is important to keep the oil clean because the tiny cooling oil feeds can become blocked.

Obviously you are going to get people who buy cars with the intention of selling them after a couple of years. They are not going to care about long life but for someone who does intend keeping the car long term look after it from the start and it will reduce the chances of premature wear.

So Ford and other car makers only quote high service intervals to appeal to fleet buyers?, not because engine technology has moved on and made them more reliable

They have tested these engines for hundreds of thousands of miles and as long as you follow the service schedule will warranty the car.

If the high mile service is just to get in fleet buyers then they are leaving themselves open to a lot of engine warranty claims, and as you pointed out " cost is everything " so that isn't going to happen.

Ford don't car who buys the car,if they did some models wouldn't exist as they aren't bought by fleet operators.

[SandyCat]

Yes it's because of the fleet buyers. oil degrades over time not just miles. The fleet managers are always trying to keep their costs low so reducing servicing intervals plays into their hands. It's pure marketing.

[Adam1991]

This is turning into quite the debate :)

I must say, my parents have a 2013 ford focus.. i think its a 13 plate anyway.... They have done about 7000 miles from new and never had the oil changed. It runs sweet as a nut. They have always owned fords and tbh, never seen them change the oil except when it goes in for a service.

I can completely see where people are coming from, to be honest, the sound of any metal particals in the oil sounds horrid and id feel inclinded to change it, but im happy to just follow the manurfacturers guides these days and stick to what they reccomend :)

[SandyCat]

Yes that's fine. I don't want a debate. I am just making recommendations. There have been cases of people who have never serviced their cars and swear the car runs better than ever. Each to their own. I am just giving recommended reasons for doing certain things but everyone makes their own choices. There are reasons why some 10 year old cars are nails and others are like new. It's how they are treated at the end of the day. :)

[molesy66]

My dealer told me to drive it like I stole it lol.

that's how I drive mine lol.

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[molesy66]

It has nothing to do with tolerances Mark. All new engines bed down leaving minute particles of metal which get into the oil causing wear and this is especially important with turbo engines. It's up to you-I am just suggesting something that's known about in the trade. If it was my car and I intended on keeping it for a while I would get it done.

"Oil

I customarily change the oil in a new engine after about 20 miles, and again at 1000 or so. That 20-mile oil, you would think, would look pretty much like fresh oil right out of the bottle. Wrong. It usually looks more like metal-flake paint, iridescent with tiny particles of metal worn off rubbing surfaces inside the new engines. After a few hours of operation, this completely normal phenomenon slows down as the rings, camshaft, lifters and bearings burnish their respective mating surfaces."

http://www.popularmechanics.com/cars/how-to/saturday-mechanic-blog/how-to-break-in-a-new-car

oil change after 20 miles.do u work for a oil company by any chance ??.

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[fiestalux]

I would echo the points made by others here i.e. just drive it as you would normally and occasionally perhaps push the revs a bit (but not too much). The latter point was made to me by a few people on here as well. Also according to one manufacturer of on-board computers I spoke with a few months ago the engine management unit will adapt to your own driving style anyway so the sooner it gets familiar with you the better. Although I have no idea if they make the one in the Fiesta.

As for clutches personally I found the one in the Fiesta a right pain in the !Removed! for the first 1000Km for some odd reason third gear was to say the least bad news. After about 1000km it all become much smoother and is fine. Also the fuel efficiency was initially terrible but is now good/respectable and improving.

I probably still have another 1000km of breaking in to do, but so far so good. Also this was my first new car so I may be a little naive:)

[SandyCat]

Molesy if you read any of my other posts on here you would soon see it's obvious I don't!

I wasn't quoting the 20 miles as you also know. That is extreme I agree and I have never done that. But I would change the oil fairly soon after purchase of a brand new car (say) 1000 miles and then annually after that. With high mileage turbo cars it's even more important to keep the oil clean.

[molesy66]

Molesy if you read any of my other posts on here you would soon see it's obvious I don't!

I wasn't quoting the 20 miles as you also know. That is extreme I agree and I have never done that. But I would change the oil fairly soon after purchase of a brand new car (say) 1000 miles and then annually after that. With high mileage turbo cars it's even more important to keep the oil clean.

Ok mate only joking .

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[Sheriff]

There's some very interesting reading regarding running engines in on the tinternet. Some differ, but the major tuners etc recommend driving it like you stole it for the first 20 miles then normal for 500 miles or so, then change oil/filter.

When I bought a new bike in 2007, I had a free service at 500 miles. I'm sure yamaha put alot of effort into the R6 engine. Why did they want it serviced at 500 miles? Exactly the reason Rick said.

I have a brand new car with nearly 500 on the clock, and it's going in for an oil/filter change very soon. I want this to last ;)

[Sheriff]

^oh and my R6 was seriously quick at the Pod and didn't use any oil between changes ;)

[molesy66]

There's some very interesting reading regarding running engines in on the tinternet. Some differ, but the major tuners etc recommend driving it like you stole it for the first 20 miles then normal for 500 miles or so, then change oil/filter.

When I bought a new bike in 2007, I had a free service at 500 miles. I'm sure yamaha put alot of effort into the R6 engine. Why did they want it serviced at 500 miles? Exactly the reason Rick said.

I have a brand new car with nearly 500 on the clock, and it's going in for an oil/filter change very soon. I want this to last ;)

Mines only got to last me two and half years so I'm not too bothered about oil changes thank god.

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[SandyCat]

Yes that's the thing. I can quite understand why some people are not bothered because they are not going to keep the car long enough to matter (and fair enough) which is why manufacturers have stupid long service intervals to appeal to the fleet buy who will be getting rid after 2-3 years. But for the private buyer who is going to keep it long term it pays to treat it well from the start. It's an expensive asset and to skimp on caring for it is a false economy in the long term.

[MarksST]

There's some very interesting reading regarding running engines in on the tinternet. Some differ, but the major tuners etc recommend driving it like you stole it for the first 20 miles then normal for 500 miles or so, then change oil/filter.

When I bought a new bike in 2007, I had a free service at 500 miles. I'm sure yamaha put alot of effort into the R6 engine. Why did they want it serviced at 500 miles? Exactly the reason Rick said.

I have a brand new car with nearly 500 on the clock, and it's going in for an oil/filter change very soon. I want this to last ;)

That's fine if that's what Yamaha recommended but ford and most car makers and their dealers don't tell you to change the oil until the first service. In the fiestas case that's 12500 miles or 1 year whichever happens first. It's not going to hurt to change it whenever you want but it's more for your piece of mind than any real necessity. If manufacturers were only suggesting large service intervals to secure fleet sales, they would be leaving themselves open to engine warranty claims, if the engine actually needed more frequent oil changes.

[SandyCat]

No because any problems are unlikely to manifest within the warranty period. They know this of course - hence the short warranty period.

[dmizz93]

Just gonna combine all the points here..

Basically its safe to change the oil early into ownership of the car, probably after the first 1000-1500 miles or so, even though new engines can take a good thrashing better to make sure there are no contaminants or small particles that can harm the Engine/Turbo or anything else..

The long service intervals aren't for fleet users IMO - mainly for the fact fleet cars will do a higher mileage a year (possibly upwards of 20k) and as the service book stipulates its around every 12,500 OR 1 yr **whichever comes first** so your average fleet company could end up servicing their cars 2 times in a year just to keep everything smooth.

The idea it appeals to them because of long intervals + is pure marketing in a non starter for me, surely they'd go for - high mpg, free/low tax etc etc - also keeps costs down as they're likely to insure a large amount of vehicles. As lease in such high quantities (which are renewed every 2-3 years) they won't be worried about servicing etc

Take Enterprise for example, had a Seat from them for 3 days which was 7k overdue for a service... ^_^ :D

But for me I'll be taking mine in after around 1000 to get the oils changed and anything that I'm unhappy with sorted.. Turbo on my current car blew around 4k after I got it (at 85k) and its my first new car so needless to say I'm gonna treat her right ;)

[SandyCat]

Sorry Dave you are wrong. If they are doing a high mileage then clearly a car with a service interval of 6000 miles is going to be less appealing than one with 15000. When you are dealing with a fleet of 500+ cars missing out one normal service saves a lot of money. It's the service managers job to save the company money so the servicing costs play a very big decision when buying the fleet. If you don't believe me go ask a fleet manager.

Manufacturers want the fleets. They don't care about the single sales. They will offer a 3 year warranty and long service intervals because they know the car will pass into the private market after 3 years and there is no warranty for them to worry about. It's all about the numbers believe me.

What people do is no concern of mine I am just saying the oil is the blood of the car. Look after it and it will look after itself. I find it incredible that people will spend £15,000 on a car and b.i.t.c.h. about a £30 oil change ! Not you as you have said you are going to change it regularly ;)

[molesy66]

Just gonna combine all the points here..

Basically its safe to change the oil early into ownership of the car, probably after the first 1000-1500 miles or so, even though new engines can take a good thrashing better to make sure there are no contaminants or small particles that can harm the Engine/Turbo or anything else..

The long service intervals aren't for fleet users IMO - mainly for the fact fleet cars will do a higher mileage a year (possibly upwards of 20k) and as the service book stipulates its around every 12,500 OR 1 yr **whichever comes first** so your average fleet company could end up servicing their cars 2 times in a year just to keep everything smooth.

The idea it appeals to them because of long intervals + is pure marketing in a non starter for me, surely they'd go for - high mpg, free/low tax etc etc - also keeps costs down as they're likely to insure a large amount of vehicles. As lease in such high quantities (which are renewed every 2-3 years) they won't be worried about servicing etc

Take Enterprise for examples, had a Seat from them for 3 days which was 7k overdue for a service... ^_^ :D

But for me I'll be taking mine in after around 1000 to get the oils changed and anything that I'm unhappy with sorted.. Turbo on my current car blew around 4k after I got it (at 85k) and its my first new car so needless to say I'm gonna treat her right ;)

I bet u in 2 or 3 years time u buy anther new car,every time i say to my self I'm going to keep this car I go to fords just to have a look and end up buying a new one lol so will u.

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[dmizz93]

Sorry Dave you are wrong. If they are doing a high mileage then clearly a car with a service interval of 6000 miles is going to be less appealing than one with 15000. When you are dealing with a fleet of 500+ cars missing out one normal service saves a lot of money. It's the service managers job to save the company money so the servicing costs play a very big decision when buying the fleet. If you don't believe me go ask a fleet manager.

Manufacturers want the fleets. They don't care about the single sales. They will offer a 3 year warranty and long service intervals because they know the car will pass into the private market after 3 years and there is no warranty for them to worry about. It's all about the numbers believe me.

What people do is no concern of mine I am just saying the oil is the blood of the car. Look after it and it will look after itself. I find it incredible that people will spend £15,000 on a car and !Removed! about a £30 oil change ! Not you as you have said you are going to change it regularly ;)

You're not getting my point ahah.. I completely agree with you that 15000 is more appealing to fleet than 6000... BUT service book and schedluling states its every X miles or every year... Therefore regardless of how many miles they do or in this case how much money can be saved it will still have to have a service every year regardless of whether its done 6k or 60k (just if 60k a few more services will be advised*

[dmizz93]

I bet u in 2 or 3 years time u buy anther new car,every time i say to my self I'm going to keep this car I go to fords just to have a look and end up buying a new one lol so will u

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Can't deny the fact in 2 years time I'll be going to have a nose around and see what I could chop mine in for :P

But that's just because I've got an ST on options.. and I'm a sucker for new cars ^_^

[molesy66]

Can't deny the fact in 2 years time I'll be going to have a nose around and see what I could chop mine in for :P

But that's just because I've got an ST on options.. and I'm a sucker for new cars ^_^

I've always gone for the titanium now titanium x 1.0 but if they bring out ST 5 door I would definitely get one.

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[Phil 87]

When you are dealing with a fleet of 500+ cars missing out one normal service saves a lot of money. It's the service managers job to save the company money so the servicing costs play a very big decision when buying the fleet. If you don't believe me go ask a fleet manager.

This makes perfect sense, but it makes me wonder why don't the fleet managers go to a dealer and say "I want x number of these cars but 2-3 years old instead of brand new". It's more hassle obviously but surely they would save a hell of a lot of money. Or do they just buy new because it's worth it for the guaranteed reliability? And are brand new cars more reliable than 2-3 year old ones in general?

[dmizz93]

Damn, I was hoping for a quote inside a quote.. Quoteception <_<

But on the original post you commented on it does make a lot of sense, service schedules are only recommended and you don't have to go by what it says but will affect future value etc..

This makes perfect sense, but it makes me wonder why don't the fleet managers go to a dealer and say "I want x number of these cars but 2-3 years old instead of brand new". It's more hassle obviously but surely they would save a hell of a lot of money. Or do they just buy new because it's worth it for the guaranteed reliability? And are brand new cars more reliable than 2-3 year old ones in general?

With regards to the 2-3 year old it totally depends on budgets, purpose of use, needs of the 'end users' also after 3 years MOT's come in which is another thing to think about. If companies have the capital and can leverage manufacturers for higher % discounts its probably seen as better to go new?

All situational really :)

[Phil 87]

Damn, I was hoping for a quote inside a quote.. Quoteception <_<

Lol, cue loud horn / trumpet noise :P

Something else I remembered, when I asked at my local Ford dealer about early oil changes they said there's no need but obviously won't do any harm. But he mentioned that the sump plug is magnetised, so I guess that would grab most of the metallic particles which could damage the turbo or other parts would it not?

[Sheriff]

Can't deny the fact in 2 years time I'll be going to have a nose around and see what I could chop mine in for :P

But that's just because I've got an ST on options.. and I'm a sucker for new cars ^_^

To be fair, I'm the same lol.