Whats Your Barmy Health And Safety Experience? If Any.

[catch]

So there I am circa 20 miles from home last week and about 10 ltrs left in the tank, and knowing our local Tesco and Morrisons have an unofficial "cartel" going in regards to petrol pricing.

I say that because motorists in our town pay circa 4 pence a litre more for their petrol at Morrisons, than Morrisions customers pay 10 miles up the road at their next nearest store. And the simple reason is our town has not got a Sainsburys, and the town 10 miles up the road has, along with a Morrisons. Meaning I don't buy Morrisons petrol on principle................why oh why don't Aldi sell petrol.

Actually that observation in it's self merits its own thread, anybody care to start one?

So I tip up at Harrogate Sainsburys petrol forcourt, 125.9p per litre and busy as hell, tail backs at all the pumps. Eventually, waiting patiently in the queue pays off and when the guy in front of me fills up and moves off, and I pull up to the pump I see that the pump in front of me [pump 5] 10 in all, is not in use. Theres a big ole Motor Way Cone blocking the pump, so I am stood there in the process of brimming my tank thinking to myself .........Stuff you Morrisons.

Anyways my mind wanders back to observing THE CONE it's positioned inches away from a scattering of dried sand covering an area of say 30cm in diameter, to a depth of ....well try and imagine two grains of sand stacked one on top of the other and there you have it. Said sand is positioned where the petrol filler cap would be in relation to the petrol pump it's self.

So the old brain immediately comes to the conclusion its not an oil spillage, wrong position geographicly, not enough sand covering it. Bingo ! It's a petrol spillage.. in't Brains Brilliant!

Anyhow heading to the shop to pay, I gives the sand a squish with my foot. And as I suspected the concrete was bone dry, the sand had absorbed the petrol, and the ambient temperature had dried the sand. Crisis over, stand Harrogate General Hospital down from it's Code Red Alert. So I moved the cone with one hand and swung it onto the raise base next to the pump, thinking that would ease the conjestion at the pumps a little

How wrong was I, my actions had triggered a Code Red at the Tills! One minute there were two adolescent till operatives, seconds later I'm in the shop getting visually identified with an accusatory finger by the one remaining seated adolescent shouting "thats him" as the second is making a dash for the "Tazzer Cupboard" Anyhow it turns out I was mistaken, Sainsburys dont have a "Tazzer Cupboard" he was making for the exit of the secured till area.

Hes bearing down on me, eyes wide open like an adolescent possessed. Staight away I'm into descelation mode, hands held slightly forward palms open,indicating I'm not armed, I come in peace.

It's OK I said the concrete is dry there is no hazard hence I removed the cone. He screams back....

THE SAND, THE SANDS THE HAZARD! And he's gone like an Exocet Missile bearing down on it's target.

I'm confering with the queue.....well I've heard of some daft interpitations as to what constitues a hazard, but that beats the lot....... yer like somebodys going to trip over 1mm high sand, followed by impersonation of same. Lady in front of me is killing her self laughing, the snitch who fingered me is saying [in a condecending tone]... just let us get on with our job sir, well two can play at that game.

Get on with your job I says, I take it this is your first, well at some point in your career you are going to have to employ a bit of commonsense, but obviously that time appears to be sometime well into the future.

Well now that I'm in another queue [sadly of my own making] I'm observing the antics of the adolescent Red Adair Because a guy parked up behind my car seeing I had removed the cone, had swung around my car at pump 6, pulled forward so he could align his car parallel with the pump and reversed into position.

But sadly he was to late at getting out of his car and grabing the knozzle. Red is on his case, he's in front of the guys car 20cm off his front bumper flapping his arms about waving the guy back. Obviously Red reckons the guys got a steering back axle, which he has'nt. ........

Anyway I'm at the till, I pay and I'm gone, I'm out the door, Reds nowhere to be seen, the guy in the car has gone The Cone is back in situ warning of the hazardous sand. I give it a cursary scatter as I pass, I can feel the eyes burning into my back. I gets in the car, belts up and asked the wife what happened to the guy who pulled up to pump 5. She said he eventually wound his window down, shouted something to Red, he stepped back and to the side, and the guy just drove off........last seen heading for Asda self serve I presume..............I'll maybe give them a try next time I'm passing.

[SeanW]

My local Shell Garage closes the whole forecourt due to a (relatively) minor spillage.

My personal favourite encounter with H&S madness isn't motoring related.

On my first trip (to sea, RFA LYME BAY in the Arabian Gulf)

Working "at height" requires the use of a safety harness with a fall arrest device fitted. Even if the height you're working at means you can comfortably splat on the deck without triggering the fall arrestor.

Or wearing hard hats on deck...when there are no lifting operations taking place...

The one that worries me at sea is when we have to tell people (Marines mostly) that they're not allowed on the flight deck because we're about to land a sodding Merlin/Lynx/Chinook/Sea Dragon. To be fair, these are the same Marines that think sneaking out on deck with in a sea state 8 and a 30+ degree roll is clever.

[Stoney871]

Our H&S policies are crazy, we have to do a risk assessment on everything.

On my last course I had to write an assessment on the use of fire extinguishers for the sake of pete.

We're not allowed to change wheels on our patrol vehicles in case we faff it up and cause a hazard, we have to call recovery which often takes at least an hour.

We can't put oil in the vehicles, fill the washer bottles or check tyre pressures, oh no, our mechanics have to do that as they are correctly trained up on all known hazards involved.

Bearing in mind it's an offence to drive a vehicle with an empty wash bottle I've had to wait 45 minutes for a mechanic to be free to do this for me before I can go on patrol.

Stupid? YES!

[MattDRX]

I work in H&S and that's nothing, the hazard there is present regardless how small so they have to do that, I had a complaint come in from some polish dude who went white water rafting last week with us in France. .....He wants a refund as we told him when he got there he couldn't take part, because he informed staff on arrival he couldn't swim....sorry you can't swim and thought one it'd be ok to do so and 2nd it's our fault because we didn't make you aware that you need to swim...insert swear words here....to finish it off I got a bollocking as my risk assessment didn't mention clients should be able to swim other wise can't take part....even if they could I doubt an Olympic swimmer could swim in those waters but never mind.

[jeebowhite]

lmfao, Catch you made me laugh loud a couple of times, and Clive... seriously.... I cant believe how petty they are! I mean, can any of you police officers drive? :p I mean, clearly none of you know how to put water in a car bottle, and your clearly dont have a clue how a Ford operates :D :P Heck, I am surprised they let you go to the fuel station? perhaps this is why they give you diesel cars, so you cant play with the petrol, fill the car up and extinguish your lit cigarettes or roaring matches by dropping them into the clearly fire stopping fluid lying at the bottom of the filler cap :D

I have heard everything now!

I cant say I have any particularly fun stories, but I am head of the Fire Wardens and First Aiders at our place, and some people come up with some cracking idea's. I am quite happy as anyone else to get a wooden floor, a fire extnguisher and a wheely desk chair and play a game of up and down the alley, thats fine by me! but we get some muppets, people who throw rather pointy scissors, or parcel tape dispensers with those massive teeth that take your fingers off! one fella who left was well known for his rather sharp and pointy knife he used for torture of fruit and disembowelment, but he used to leave it laid around and throw it around, needless to say first aid kits where at hand more often than not!

Heck, I have seen alsorts, including people who use their electrical cables in ways that they where never really intended. Having them plugged into the laptop, wrapped around a nother device and using them as a footrest! very perculiar folks!

Sadly though, other than that, I have come to accept health and safety idiocies and overreactions to be little more than the norm! I personally would have taken some of catch's sand in my hand, and taken a lighter to it and then told them to shut the fluff up personally :D or if I was mischievous, pick it up and fake a seizure then when they are all panicked up stand up and then tell them to shut the fluff up!

[hywelkidd]

I did a couple of BTECs in music a few years back. During the course we had to put on a show, which involved us designing and putting together the stage. We decided that we would use only the medium (about 50cm tall) and tallest (about 1m tall) stage frames, only to be told that we'd have to either use a row of the shortest frames at the front or have a barrier there in case any of us fell off the medium size ones!

[stef123]

If only I could share some photos regarding a particular Chinese crane builder..

They were forced to follow our h&s rules, but they had no idea what it was all about.

They would put harnesses on, fair enough. But 330ft up a crane with it clipped to a door handle might not be the best option.

Others include, fitting metal gratings at the top of the crane, again a 330ft drop. The would work in pairs, one fitting the clips and gratings, the other holding onto his belt!

h&s is destroying this country, can't get anything done these days! Ok the above statements and many more I could share might be beyond what is reasonably safe but it would seem you are not allowed to apply common sense now.

[MattDRX]

Untrue Stef, the same law applies to protect members of the public in terms of what care is owned, although if you work in construction etc you may be well clued up as 99% of manual workers are, however when you're working within the proximity of dumb !Removed! public and tbf most of them are oblivious to the world around them and they are the ones that need to be kept safe, such as items falling off the cranes if they slip, people landing on them, tool, cranes collapsing etc. it's well agreed on that the huge majority of workers know how to be safe, not like you're going to do something stupid and severe a limb for a paycheck now is it.

Example, when I was in the gym a while ago, waiting outside a studio to go in, class finishes, I accidently closed the self closing fire doors so they were shut and blocked the way, for the lulz some woman comes out and goes to walk through them, I said wait there is a fire out there that is why they are shut........she just goes whatever and carries on going, despite the fact these doors had a huge sign on them around 50CM in diameter saying do not cross if closed.

Humans...

[stef123]

If it's untrue, why do many of the huge projects start in places like china? They can produce anything at an alarming rate because they are not interested in h&s. I am not saying h&s is the sole reason here but it contributes so much as to why it costs so much to get jobs done - I deal with this every day at work.

They can produce things much cheaper and on budget/time.

So many great trades and skills being lost in this country because work is being sold to other countries. Yes I am in the trade, so I can safely say that it is true.

Yes protecting members of the public is important and like I say common sense applies. When changing a light on a street light for example, common sense (and as health and safety/risk assessments would have it) that you must put up barriers and signage and make appropriate arrangements to stop anyone from entering a potentially dangerous area.

[MattDRX]

How many accidents and buildings collapse in places like China due to not caring about basic things though? look at how many buildings collapse due to earth quakes because they rush them and don't design them like the americans do in earthquake prone areas, I know Mao said "a Nuclear war in China would be acceptable due to it's high population" but China isn't a great example of it, Brazil is another one so is Qatar will all the world cup and Olympic stuff, people dying left right and centre,

but when you look at the UK, USA, Canada and Australia for instance they don't have these issues.

[stef123]

How many accidents and buildings collapse in places like China due to not caring about basic things though? look at how many buildings collapse due to earth quakes because they rush them and don't design them like the americans do in earthquake prone areas, I know Mao said "a Nuclear war in China would be acceptable due to it's high population" but China isn't a great example of it, Brazil is another one so is Qatar will all the world cup and Olympic stuff, people dying left right and centre,

but when you look at the UK, USA, Canada and Australia for instance they don't have these issues.

I'm sure that's more of a building regulations and standards issue than health and safety. They build on the cheap, sub standard materials etc.. There is only one thing that can happen - a disaster

[MattDRX]

Sorry I was generalising there, but all the same still, You'd never get away with half of the stuff they do over there here, WAHR regulations mean nothing to most companies abroad, more people fell from scaffolds and cranes in Brazil this year building stadiums than have done in the UK in the last 10 years.

Our working population in construction is probably a lot lot higher,

Also I'm sure another aspect is training and actual skills for the job but all relative.

[stef123]

Sorry I was generalising there, but all the same still, You'd never get away with half of the stuff they do over there here, WAHR regulations mean nothing to most companies abroad, more people fell from scaffolds and cranes in Brazil this year building stadiums than have done in the UK in the last 10 years.

Our working population in construction is probably a lot lot higher,

Also I'm sure another aspect is training and actual skills for the job but all relative.

Yes admittedly what they get up to in these countries is mental and people are basically disposable to an extent but the point I am making is this.

When a company in this country give a quote for having something built, a huge makeup of the cost is health and safety. When they ask for the same quote from a Chinese company or whatever, they are getting the exact same deal for less money.

Health and safety is then out of this countries hands and the only thing they worry about is the end product.

So our industry suffers and is slowly fading away in some areas.

Part of the problem is petty things - which is my biggest annoyance with the whole system.

[MattDRX]

Oh I agree on that aspect completely, H&S is too lucrative for my liking, if I were to become an independent consultant I'd be charging people a nominal fee of £600 + VAT per day which is ridiculous, proper H&S people like EHO's ( I'm trying to become one now ) only get around 30K a year and they are much more hands on and empowered to prosecute people, but the private sector guys go around ripping people off and bankrupt small start ups and don't do anything but ultimately hand a report in, Huge difference in cost is stuff like CE compliance, I get making a product that's CE compliant but it needs to be made from a machine that CE complaint, using materials made to BS or ISO standards and made by qualified staff, run by a qualified forman and all risk assessed and insured with the HSE on your back waiting for someone to get trapped in a machine.

Allowing bad quality into the markets would probably do wonders for business here actually, increase competition, everything being made / produced to same standard will kill it all off and just inflate prices.

( You can tell I'm brainwashed by the HSE can't you )

Hopefully people don't start buying aircraft from the Chinese, good thing MG never took off over here, very very poor quality cars

[DaveTheDog]

Nine years ago I had a business meeting with a site manager of a famous French concrete manufacture/supplier.

Upon signing in at reception, the receptionist said to me "have you reversed parked?" I replied no? with a puzzled look.

She then asked me to go to my car and reverse park.
As I walked back to my car I could see that out of about 70ish cars, I was the only one that had not reverse parked.
As I arrived back at reception, I had to ask why and the receptionist said it reduces the risk of car park accidents.
The person that made this site rule was also the person I was about to meet, he also was proud to tell me they had an onsite defibrillator.
This guy had thought of everything.

Nine years later, i still find myself reverse parking.
How many times have you had a near miss reversing out of a tight parking spot in your local supermarket car park?.

[stef123]

Nine years ago I had a business meeting with a site manager of a famous French concrete manufacture/supplier.

Upon signing in at reception, the receptionist said to me "have you reversed parked?" I replied no? with a puzzled look.

She then asked me to go to my car and reverse park.

As I walked back to my car I could see that out of about 70ish cars, I was the only one that had not reverse parked.

As I arrived back at reception, I had to ask why and the receptionist said it reduces the risk of car park accidents.

The person that made this site rule was also the person I was about to meet, he also was proud to tell me they had an onsite defibrillator.

This guy had thought of everything.

Nine years later, i still find myself reverse parking.

How many times have you had a near miss reversing out of a tight parking spot in your local supermarket car park?.

I would agree that reverse parking is the best way. At work for example where folk park on the busy road through the site front end in first cause noting but hassle come 1715 as they cannot see what's coming and everyone has to brake for them.

Not the first time I have seen cars getting hit by those driving in nose first.

[SandyCat]

When I was in Bangkok it was normal to see big holes dug in the road with nothing round them, missing drain covers and low slung high voltage cables. But that's Thailand you expect it.

But in Greece they are supposed to be controlled by the same EU as us so what gives? In Crete we were walking along the road and they had dug a huge trench on an unlit main road and just left it. No cones, no lights nothing. They have the attitude of s t f u and look where you are going! Fair enough :D

[MartynS]

I read something a while back saying that if it wasn't for the fact roads already exist they would no way be allowed due to health and safety - large heavy metal things going at 30mph+ just feet away from pedestrians! Madness!

Agree with reverse parking too, much safer and easier. I literally spent 20 minutes once getting out of a space in the college car park where I had driven in to the end one forwards and someone parked a few feet behind me at 90 degrees leaving me very little room. Always reverse park!

[jeebowhite]

I always reverse park, if nothing else but for fear of my depth perception taking my car or someone elses out in the process!

[SeanW]

Health & Safety by itself is perfectly understandable - the problems arise when idiots get hold of it and blindly try to follow it (top tip to those numpties: open your eyes first...easier to follow)

Not to mention the excuses (like when stupid rules are introduced - you know, the ones like: the aglets on your shies should be made of hi-viz material so we can see your feet. And of course its partner rule: all lace bows & ends should be neatly tucked into the shoe)

Oh yeah, the excuses..."Well, I heard about it from Fred who got told by Bob in Accounts after he was told by George in the pub last night whilst he read in The Sun that some bloke had totally died and it HAD to be because he didn't follow this rule!"

[stef123]

On the note of what was previously said about reverse parking. I have turned up at nationwide platforms today and they only allow you to reverse park.

This is the first place I have ever seen this, but funny how it was just mentioned yesterday lol

[MattDRX]

Thing is though, unless the car park is completely private the employer has no liability towards the public as it'll be covered by the road traffic act etc, odd to be honest. I doubt anyone would ever be successful in suing a business over a car park incident when it was due to a persons parking, having that rule means they have to follow it all the time, if someone doesn't monitor it for 1 minute and something happens they could be in aggro, they only owe what's reasonably practical not to the enth degree.

[jeebowhite]

I agree with Sean here, Health and Safety on its own - great idea, sensible and lifesaving in its own right.

It really is down to how the idiots read it. I always look at it this way - Sense is good, but these days, people interpret the H&S directoriate with Common Sense. Far too much of the common and not enough of the sense!

[DaveTheDog]

On the note of what was previously said about reverse parking. I have turned up at nationwide platforms today and they only allow you to reverse park.

This is the first place I have ever seen this, but funny how it was just mentioned yesterday lol

In nine years, I have never come across this requirment again.

At the time I thought the guy was nuts but he wanted to minimize risks regardless of visitors being covered by motor insurance policies within the boundaries of his site and put a lot of thought in doing so.

His mentality was a case of "no accidents on my watch" .........."every one, every day, home safe".

How many companies had a defibrillator in place nine years ago?, not many i guess.

They are more common now days but this guy was very forward thinking and concerned for peoples safety as soon as they entered his site.