Strange Indicator Problem. Please Help Asap

[Brigante]

This morning driving back home from work in the early hours I noticed a strange fault with the passenger side indicator on going round a round about. The knocking noise it makes was a lot more rapid than usual.

I investigated tonight and it turns out when turning the headlights on, it also illuminates the passenger side wing mirror indictator and I think the indicator in the headlight. The tail lights are normal n and it is only the front passenger side.

It is as if when turning the headlights on there is a trickle of power also going to the indicators so that they stay illuminated and solid. When I actually do come to use the passenger side indicator of flashes quite rapidly. The problem doesn't occur with the side lights.

Can any one offer up any advice on resolving the problem as I obviously need to fix this asap

[TFogarty96]

This happened to myself aswell. Its a sign that the bulb needs replacing as far as I can remember.

Good luck with it my man

[troy45]

Hopefully a bulb gone, on more basic systems with a flasher relay the bulbs flash quicker if one of them has blown. Though the symptoms sound like you've maybe got a short in the wiring. Or maybe moisture in a connector somewhere - perhaps the headlights or tail lights. If you're still struggling, try disconnecting the headlamp on left hand side and see what happens, then the same with the tail lamp - may help point you in the right direction.

[Brigante]

I was hoping it was just a bulb but I guess it's not that simple.

First I swapped the wing mirror indicator bulb for a standard clear 501 bulb I had spare but it wouldn't illuminate at all so I swapped them back over.

For some reason the indicator bulb in the headlight is very dim and won't illuminate properly when there headlights are on.

I don't have a spare bulb of that type so I simply swapped the passenger side bulb for the driver side bulb to see if the problem would move but nope...

It still remains in the passenger side so I am thinking it is definitely wiring somewhere.

As previously said the problem only occurs with the headlights on. The passenger side wing mirror indicator will illuminate solidly and flash rapidly when indicating. The headlight bulb will be very dim.

With headlights off all bulbs function as normal and are as bright as normal.

The taillights do not have any problems and are led anyway so none of the bulbs can be changed.

I am thinking its possibly from my retrofitting the wing mirror indicators myself by cutting off the indicator bulb from the wing panels, running a wire from the new mirror indicators to the existing loom where the panel indicator was and splicing it in. But I did this mod over 2 years ago now and never had a problem. Tomorrow I will have to take all the tape off and check the wiring.

Has anyone got any other ideas?

[Dee_82]

don't rule out the rears, just because they are working doesn't mean its not a problem, front and rear connect on each side, worst case, disconnect it all see what happens to head light since turning that on creates the problem, and if that ok add one lamp at a time. if its a wiring short then check for continuity across various cables / ground and see what happens, try disconnecting each lamp fat the harness, rear ones above the wheel arch, trial an error, bit of a !Removed! job with this weather though

[mjt]

For some reason the indicator bulb in the headlight is very dim and won't illuminate properly when the headlights are on...........problem only occurs with the headlights on. The passenger side wing mirror indicator will illuminate solidly and flash rapidly when indicating. The headlight bulb will be very dim.


With headlights off all bulbs function as normal and are as bright as normal.

Sounds to me like an earthing problem, possibly at the headlight. I think the power to the indicator is returning through the headlight bulb so when you switch that on you've effectively got 12V on both sides of the indicator.

If you've got a test meter you could check if that's what's happening.

[Brigante]

I don't have a test metre. If it is a grounding what exactly do I do to rectify it?

[Brigante]

Thought I'd try changing fuses. Looked in owners manual and I can not fathom what fuse applies to the indicators.

I tried taking the passenger dipped beam fuse out completely and the problem remained, replaced it and the problem remained.

But then I noticed the problem is worse than I originally thought.

Here are my findings

Head lights off completely - all indicators function as normal

Side lights on - same as above

Dipped beams on - passenger side headlight running at a dimmed rate, passenger side indicator on at a solid dimmed rate, passenger side wing mirror indicator on at a solid rate. I have also just noticed that both high beams, passenger and driver come on at a dimmed rate when the dipped beams are on.

High beams on - I have noticed that when I turn the high beams on, the driver side works as normal but the passenger side dipped and main beam bulbs do not illuminate at all. The indicator bulb in the headlight still does stay on at a solid dimmed rate though as does the wing indicator.

This is a very strange fault effecting both sides of the car and I am at a loss as how to tackle it. Essentially when it is dark enough to require high beams on I am actually driving with one working head light.

[mjt]

That pretty much confirms what I said earlier. It's a classic earthing fault. The earth of the passenger side headlamp is broken and the low beam current is finding its way to earth via its high beam filament and the high beam filament in the drivers side lamp to that lamp's earth. That puts the three filaments in series hence the dimming. I suspect the indicator in the passenger headlamp shares the (broken) earth so some current is also going via the indicator bulbs in the headlamp and mirror to the mirror earth and through the tail indicator to its earth.

With the high beams on the passenger side has 12V applied to both filaments so now the only earth path is through the indicator bulbs. I'd expect them to be a bit brighter in this case.

[Brigante]

Just been outside in rain to change all headlight high/low beam bulbs in both sides to check that none of the bulbs are simply on the way out. They aren't.

Also noticed that as I turn the high beams on, both the dim dipped and high beam bulbs immediately go out on the passenger side, but the dim indicator bulb gets brighter at the same time.

Have also noticed that the rear led tail lights are affected in the sense that the passenger indicator flashes more rapidly with the front indicators.

Stupid question but assuming it is a bad earth, what exactly do I do to fix it?

[mjt]

I'm afraid I don't know the layout of the earths on the car. Maybe one of the experts on here might have a better idea. I've looked in my Haynes and that definitely shows a shared earth for the front indicator and headlamp with a separate earth for the side repeater in the mirror but doesn't show where they are located. I also looked at the Entire Schematic posted in the stickies at the top of the page. This shows the headlamp earth going to G37 on the 'Left Front Fender', i.e. wing, (page 62 if you want to look) but again doesn't show the location. The only thing I can suggest is try to trace the loom back from the headlamp connector and you might see a wire break out (black according to the schematic) to a bolt on the wing.

Both the Haynes and the schematic show the earth going via pin 6 of the headlamp connector so you might want to pull the connector off and check the pins and sockets for corrosion.

[Brigante]

Is it likely to be earthed locally under the bonnet or hidden away in the wing panel somewhere?

[Brigante]

Been out in the dark under the bonnet again

Had the headlight back out and there doesn't seem to be any loose pins in back of the headlight

I thought maybe my splicing from when I wired in the mirror indicators may have wiggled loose so I hacked open all the fabric and electrical tape but nope it was still secure and fine.

I cut apart the splice anyway so that the mirror indicator was not connected at all and tested it. The indicator in the headlight still illuminated dimly even when there was no power going to the wing indicator. I then re spliced or back together sand taped back up.

I tried to trace the earth wire from the headlight to try and see where our was earthed to but it disappears into a conduit and down under the engine somewhere.

I'm at a loss as what to do.

If I acquired a volt meter or whatever it is what do I actually do with it

[foxworld]

Sounds like the problem is on the passengers side. When you took each bulb out did you also check the housing of each bulb holder. There may be corrosion in one! When you had the headlights out you should have swapped them over to see if the problem went to the other side!

[Dee_82]

trial an error, eliminate what you can, swap stuff with other side, assume nothing. with a meter your checking for continuity where the shouldn't be and where it should. First thing id do is eliminate the lamps, all 4 complete units swap them about. when you know there all good you can stop thinking about bulbs and connectors and look at the wiring. here you using the meter, check each pin for continuity with groun d then compare with other side. you know the headlights and indicators something todo with it so be sure you checking with them on\off too, volts will be a little tricky its dimming because either its supply is dropping volts or because volts are going up the ground. eg, 12v in to bulb plus 6 volts up the earth will give the bulb 6v use the meter to answer questions, when you've answered enough, your have the problem

[Brigante]

this problem has now been resolved, after all the faff i had the previous night in the rain using my torch for light, the next morning i had another look at it

the passenger headlight had shorted some how and one of the pins on the headlight connector block had some melted plastc clogging it up some how

i scraped this out with a screwdriver, plugged the headlight back in and to my delight the lights now all worked as they should

god knows how it managed to short out and after all the faff it turned out to be quite easy to reseolve

cheers for all the help fellas

[mjt]

I bet it was the earth pin and rather than shorting it overheated due to corrosion causing a high resistance.

You may remember I suggested checking the connector pins.