Dpf - If I Don't Have A Problem, Do I Leave Well Alone?

[vibeone]

Hi all,

I'm having a fair bit of work done on my car at 104k, including an early cambelt renew I think.

However, I'm not sure on the DPF side of things. I do a lot of miles, so I guess it re-gens properly, and I have had no problems with it so far.

However, I notice the fluid renew is at 75k. This hasn't been done, so my question is - should I do it, or should I leave well alone until I have an issue?

I know the DPFs are a nightmare, so if its better to leave it be, I will do so!

Thanks!

[alexp999]

ETIS might tell you if the DPF needs replacing.

I'd get the eolys fluid done though.

[vibeone]

ETIS says...

"Every 75 000 miles - Renew - Duratorq-TDCi with Stage IV Emission only, if applicable (LTS 25 280 1)"

For DPF... is that renew the fluid, or the entire DPF! Needless to say, neither has been done - and I'm now 30k over the advised. Car is Stage IV by the way.

Again though, in part because of all the crap you hear about DPFs, I'm worried that changing the fluid might not be all that helpful..... Argh!

[alexp999]

My mum's old 1.6 TDCi 110PS DV6 206 (same engine), we asked around a few garages and they basically said as long as fluid is topped up as per schedule, not to change the DPF until it needed doing.

I.e. Not at a certain interval but when it got blocked and had to be replaced.

Not sure how different the DPFs are between peugeot and Ford, even if engine is the same though...

[TomsFocus]

At 75k the DPF itself and Eolys fluid is recommended replacement on these. Most don't bother though, particularly leasing companies!

You can check the Eolys level with ELMConfig but should get a fault light when it gets low anyway. If the DPF is fine and not causing issue I'd just leave it myself, you'll notice a lack of power and constant regens before it fails completely anyway.

[vibeone]

See that's more what I'd heard Tom!

I've got ELMConfig so that might be a good shout to check once I get the car back. BTW, I've never noticed it regen ever - what should I look out for?

Thanks again!

[TomsFocus]

No worries, I did a lot of DPF research before buying the Focus and found there was a surprising lack of info about them! And tbh half the stuff you read about them on the internet isn't correct lol.

If you're doing a lot of long commutes you may never notice a regen. The main things are a change of engine note and a 'rougher' engine feel, particularly noticeable if you drop to idle for a junction etc. Engine fan running during and after regen, if it runs when you switch off the engine it's likely a regen is or has taken place. And mpg dropping while at a constant speed on the trip computer, though there are other factors that can cause that of course. You can also smell it sometimes, basically a really hot, acrid, burning smell.

The worst part about the Focus DPF is there is no DPF light, so you don't know theres an issue with it, or how full it is, until its too late! Other manufacturers add a dash light so not sure why Ford didn't.

[vibeone]

No worries, I did a lot of DPF research before buying the Focus and found there was a surprising lack of info about them! And tbh half the stuff you read about them on the internet isn't correct lol.

If you're doing a lot of long commutes you may never notice a regen. The main things are a change of engine note and a 'rougher' engine feel, particularly noticeable if you drop to idle for a junction etc. Engine fan running during and after regen, if it runs when you switch off the engine it's likely a regen is or has taken place. And mpg dropping while at a constant speed on the trip computer, though there are other factors that can cause that of course. You can also smell it sometimes, basically a really hot, acrid, burning smell.

The worst part about the Focus DPF is there is no DPF light, so you don't know theres an issue with it, or how full it is, until its too late! Other manufacturers add a dash light so not sure why Ford didn't.

Interesting - yes the girlfriends ibiza has the hot burning smell, but never noticed from the focus. Having said that I do 20k+ miles so maybe that's why!

I'll probably leave it alone then until I get a warning light. Thanks!

[youngy_315]

How often does the regeneration actually occur then? I have never noticed it happening either but I travel 26 miles on 'a' roads to and from work every day so not sure I would.

[TomsFocus]

Interesting - yes the girlfriends ibiza has the hot burning smell, but never noticed from the focus. Having said that I do 20k+ miles so maybe that's why!

I'll probably leave it alone then until I get a warning light. Thanks!

No worries. At 20k a year yours should be fine tbh!

How often does the regeneration actually occur then? I have never noticed it happening either but I travel 26 miles on 'a' roads to and from work every day so not sure I would.

As often as necessary, there are two pressure sensors, one either side of the DPF, if they sense the DPF is starting to block (40% soot or so, I don't know exact figures) the ECU will start a regen. On the 1.6 Focus there also seems to be a failsafe regen roughly every 500 miles. So basically one every 500 miles unless the pressure sensors sense the DPF blocking earlier. So with your A road driving, assuming you're doing 40+ most of the time it'll probably only be every 500 or so.

[Dee_82]

worth remembering that the soot gets turned to ash on regen, the ash, builds up and stays put. which is why regens get more frequent, crappy driving stops the soot getting burned and if left too long will clog to the point it cant get hot enough to regen but even if the car has perfect regens as and when it wants, ash will still build up and clog it eventually.

It amazes me that they didn't design a DPF with a drop in filter, surely would have saved a stack of hassle given it is a part that will fill up and go bad much like an air filter, fuel filter etc etc

[TomsFocus]

True Dee, I checked MOT history on my car last week - turns out in 2011 and 2012 it only did 4k a year! So that's probably why it clogged with ash much sooner than the expected 75k.

If they made the DPF quick to remove and replaceable I doubt anyone would refit it lol!

The earlier 1.6 PSA cars did have a separate DPF from the cat which is a better idea, not sure why they stopped that tbh.

[alexp999]

True Dee, I checked MOT history on my car last week - turns out in 2011 and 2012 it only did 4k a year! So that's probably why it clogged with ash much sooner than the expected 75k.

If they made the DPF quick to remove and replaceable I doubt anyone would refit it lol!

The earlier 1.6 PSA cars did have a separate DPF from the cat which is a better idea, not sure why they stopped that tbh.

The newer combined CAT/DPFs operate at lower exhaust temps, require no fluid and have a much longer life expectancy.

[Dee_82]

isn't that the newer euro 5 ceramic ones, doesn't need the fluid as it heats up better, mines a Euro 4+DPF with a joined cat and DPF as well.

I dunno, id have though having a removable lower section allowing access to the brick would have been sensible but as you say, everyone would just scrap it an never look back. still, I should patent the idea just in case :)

[TomsFocus]

The newer combined CAT/DPFs operate at lower exhaust temps, require no fluid and have a much longer life expectancy.

As Darren says, that's the coated DPFs although they're the same style. The Eolys ones are still inseparable, but look at a Citroen C4 DV6 for example and theres a massive v band around the bottom half of the combeined DPF/cat so you can remove just the DPF to clean it, Much better system, but I'm not sure Ford ever used it with the DV6 in the Focus.

isn't that the newer euro 5 ceramic ones, doesn't need the fluid as it heats up better, mines a Euro 4+DPF with a joined cat and DPF as well.

I dunno, id have though having a removable lower section allowing access to the brick would have been sensible but as you say, everyone would just scrap it an never look back. still, I should patent the idea just in case :)

Yup, at Euro 5 (2009ish) they changed to the coated one. As you say it heats up more efficiently to burn normal soot, rather than having to add Eolys to make the soot burn at lower temps. As the Eolys contains minerals which cause ash (yep, stupid I know!) this also means the cDPF should go a lot longer before blocking - hopefully the life of the vehicle if its driven properly.

Removeable lower section (as used in 407/C4) was an excellent idea, still takes time to remove and cant just be left out. What I don't think would be good is just a removeable filter inside the removable section, would be so easy to leave that out lol.

[mudman]

How's the car been sins you changed your dpf tom ?

[TomsFocus]

Don't wanna jynx it lol...

But it's not regenerating all the time now. Fans haven't been on once when shutting engine off since, and the fault hasn't come back.

MPG hasn't gone up by as much as I'd hoped, but of course its suddenly got colder, and I've been carrying about 100kg of tools in the boot for a couple of hundred miles of this tank. Trip computer says 59.2mpg average but I'll confirm that when filling up later this week.

[Dee_82]

60mpg,id be happy with that in the summer! Then again Suffolks as flat as it gets ;)

With my work done to the DPF I was hoping for more but it never really happened, possibly offset by me using the increase in available power!

once the oil breather issue is taken care of I think I might start chasing some more mpg, clean out the intercooler and replace hoses and perhaps the hubs which don't rotate very smoothly.

[TomsFocus]

60mpg would be fine, it annoys me being just short of that though lol.

Suffolk isn't as flat as people think, particularly the A14, I lose most of my mpg at 70 uphill on that road, it doesn't help that the surface is terrible as well, not like a nice smooth motorway. :(

But I should add, I'm not actually chasing mpg, just driving 'normally' really, set the cruise to 70 on any duallys, do a fair few 3rd gear overtakes on the B road, and do about 10% in traffic. So I guess it's not bad overall, hopefully might get better when the weather warms up again as well, its taking most of my 12 mile journey to town before it gets to the centre of the temp gauge atm.

[Dee_82]

Was driving down the A14 not long ago between cambs and ipswitch, its been years since id properly driven about around there, was but a wee kid then too. Strangest thing is, the A14 feels like a wee back street compared to around me now and it looked so big back then. but your A14 isn't that bad, just looks like your driving through an overgrown field!

im getting about 55 here, dropped a wee bit since It got cold but id like to get 600 miles from a tank.

It really didn't change much at all having the work down to the DPF. But hay-ho, just ordered my oil catch can from the states, should stop some of that oil being pumped in to the intake.

[TomsFocus]

Depends how far into Ipswich you came, that side has had a lot redone, but I tend to do Ipswich to Felixstowe at least once a week which is terrible lol!

At 55mpg you should get 600 to a tank....just. ;)

[Dee_82]

Didn't fancy pushing it too far but aye, its probably could do it!

I'm from Old Newton near Stowupland so dotted about between My brothers in Over and Ipswich, Bury, stow, etc its a damn site lot flatter then Scotland! ;)

[TomsFocus]

Should definitely do it, I got 600 miles at 56mpg before the DPF change.

Oh yeah, much flatter than Scotland lol! Its surprising how many hills you don't even notice though, when its on cruise glancing down at the instant mpg you find hills all over the place lol.

[TomsFocus]

600.2 miles to 45.79 litres. 59.6mpg and with the fuel price cuts means its only 9p a mile! :D

Also, reckons theres still 52 miles of range left, not sure I'd want have tried that though lol.