B13 Posted February 3, 2015 Share Posted February 3, 2015 I read THIS yesterday on the BBC website - and while this woman's taste in stickers is certainly not mine (I don't have any belief in imaginary sky friends, sorry) the fact that her insurance company is arguing that her insurance is void because of the stickers on her car (and a 12v socket installed in the boot. Modifications to the vehicle, dontcha know...) is just RIDICULOUS!! The stickers aren't obscuring her view or placed in such a way as to make the car unsafe, so ... er... how exactly does that ligitimately void her vehicle insurance?? The only answer I could think of is that reading them may distract other drivers (or eye-rolling, in my case) but still... Stickers voiding insurance? Really?? I've been toying with the idea that I should tell my insurers about the security modifications that I've made to my van since buying it (I've added to top half of the bulkhead to make it full height, tinted the rear window, as well as a few other bits and bobs) but considering that the article goes on to say that if she had declared the stickers when she took out the insurance, she would have been declined, I'm now not sure what to do. Any insurance experts in the house? Sent from Ye Olde iPadde using Ford OC Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Loonytaz Posted February 3, 2015 Share Posted February 3, 2015 You fo have to inform insurance companys of window tints and any mods made to cars or can but most so long as the manufacturer offer these extras the insurance is fine . I have told mine about tints and group a induction kit and they were fine but heavily mods your better going with proper insurance comapnys for modded motors Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MartynS Posted February 3, 2015 Share Posted February 3, 2015 Maybe stickers affect the crumple zones, after all they make the bodywork that little bit thicker . It begs the question though, do you have to declare it if your car is filthy and someone writes in the dirt? 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
laumk7 Posted February 3, 2015 Share Posted February 3, 2015 http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-wales-south-west-wales-31064998 (Sorry I couldn't get original link to work) Those are awfully big stickers, and to play devils advocate I can kinda see where the insurance company is coming from - having those kind of stickers all over your car is going to provoke reaction, be it good, or bad tbh I mean, you can imagine the reaction if you were to have your car covered in stickers preaching the opposite, some will agree with it, some will find it insulting, most couldn't give a monkeys either way, but religious stickering, most especially preaching religious stickering is going to provoke a reaction Sent from my iPad using Ford OC Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Turvey Posted February 3, 2015 Share Posted February 3, 2015 Jeremy Vine covered this story yesterday(Monday) and some of the excuses the insurance companies came out with were horrific. The one I remember was the guy who was knocked of his motorbike by a car on a roundabout. Nearly killed him and fair wrecked his bike. The car driver was at fault but the insurance company refused to pay out. The reason? The car owner had changed the colour of his car without telling the insurance company! Apparently the driver was insured but wasn't covered! Go figure. Fair enough to not pay for anything for the car but for anything he hit? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Micro Posted February 5, 2015 Share Posted February 5, 2015 Could it be argued that the vehicle is being used for Business purposes (class 3?), and that is the actual reason, not just a "sticker"? If not, I better declare all my physical mods to the insurer then... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
B13 Posted February 5, 2015 Author Share Posted February 5, 2015 Could it be argued that the vehicle is being used for Business purposes (class 3?), and that is the actual reason, not just a "sticker"? That's a point: her job is preaching, so if she's extended her "message" to the car, she's using her car as an advertising billboard for her services!! :D Sent from Ye Olde iPadde using Ford OC Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jace1969 Posted February 5, 2015 Share Posted February 5, 2015 What do you do if you buy a car with stuff on it and you don't know,say pass airbag off/on or esp on/off. Being its a top spec car how do you know if its been added by person before. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Loonytaz Posted February 5, 2015 Share Posted February 5, 2015 Pop to local ford dealer and take VIN number they can tell you how and what it had when sold but if anything like esp or airbag on/off were added but by ford themselves its classed as factory only if anything is added not by ford is it not factory but still tell insurance but make sure they log it as factory i have focus ST3 so bodykit alloys and leather seats heated windscreen are all factory but have to tell them because windscreens are around £600 to replace Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Loonytaz Posted February 5, 2015 Share Posted February 5, 2015 So long as insurance knows car is business used car as this needs to be stated also for equipment and extra usage Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
richard150 Posted February 5, 2015 Share Posted February 5, 2015 remember some years ago . some company would not pay out because the car had a pin stripe down the side , what a rip off 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
troy45 Posted February 5, 2015 Share Posted February 5, 2015 It's a clear-cut grey area lol Say that as it can get silly, remember a case highlighted where an insurance company had done an assessment of a car involved in an accident and listed everything that hadn't been declared. Not got all the details to mind but they had even flagged up that the owner had different mats in the car etc Then there's the issue with declaring any items on the car which were factory fitted optional extras. In some cases this can make sense for someone speccing up a basic model with every extra it can possibly have and maybe making it more desirable to thieves etc but on the other hand when buying a second hand car how do you possibly know what it's original base spec was and what were optional? And what happens if you got an extra feature as a give-away by Ford which you didn't actually specify? example being the first year or so of Focus ST's, for some technical reason or other if you specified bluetooth as an option Ford were also having to build car with auto wipers, auto headlamps and auto-dimming mirror for the bluetooth to work so you got that as a freebie. Probably related to a loom/build complexity issue, not a technical tie-in with the auto dimming bits etc. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
B13 Posted February 6, 2015 Author Share Posted February 6, 2015 It's a clear-cut grey area lolAin't that the truth...:D I'll give my insurer a call and ask them what they consider to be "modifications". If they say anything ridiculous like floor mats, headlight bulbs, etc, I'll change my insurers. Because if they are going to be that nit-picky, I don't trust that they would be worth the money I am paying them if it came to a claim. Sent from Ye Olde iPadde using Ford OC Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ianb Posted February 6, 2015 Share Posted February 6, 2015 To be totally honest, they're legally backed scammers.. How many of you (I'm not saying us here ) have put what we would call 'very OEM' things in or on the car? 1) Silver surround heater knobs look fairly ordinary.. Which makes them so wonderful because they're not obvious... 2) Changed a square faced head unit for an oval head unit? 3) like the above, changed the fascia. 4) white LED's in the interior lamps etc.. What I'm getting at, is that the majority of people who have done the above, may not bother reversing them when they come to sell the car.. I've never had a ford before now, neither do any family.. Frankly I probably wouldn't notice the majority of the above to be 'mods' so you buy the thing and all of a sudden you have a modded car... Someone mentioned dirt.. And indeed writing in the dirt... What about a scrape down the car.. It's modified from the original car? I think certain mods should be declared - performance mods and things you will want to claim for... For instance if you bought a focus with a bum stereo system and bought some £2k system that you don't declare and it gets pinched, then quite rightly I can understand them saying "well you should have told us"... But things like door scuff plates? Honestly if my car goes up in flames or gets robbed or gets smashed, I'm not going to b***h that my payout doesn't include £18 for them.. Sent via carrier pigeon using Ford OC Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Philf1 Posted February 7, 2015 Share Posted February 7, 2015 When I bought used cars and rang the insurance to change over I always answered the question with a "not to my knowledge" as they record all calls and it was my honest comment I think I'd be ok. Hearing stories like this just makes me so angry they are just legalised muggers in my opinion on a par with bankers. Always happy to take your money but try anything to avoid a pay out Sent from my iPhone using Ford OC mobile app Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Dark Knight Posted February 7, 2015 Share Posted February 7, 2015 An insurance policy is, as they say in Latin, Uberrimae Fidei - The utmost good faith. This means you should be open and honest about everything that you change to your car. However, consumable parts such as bulbs should largely be exempt from declaration. Afterall, a bulb can go and need to be replaced. Lighting upgrades are a different matter, such as HID kits obviously.This bit caught my eye: "They have concluded that our request to declare all modifications was not made clear enough to Rev Parry and therefore she did not know which vehicle enhancements should have been declared."The insurers would have fallen foul of the Contra Proferentum rule. This means any ambiguous term will be interpreted in a way least favourable to the party seeking to rely on it.In simple terms, in a legal battle over the validity of the policy, the insurer would try to rely on the term of the policy but the customer would say it is vague and that they were unaware of what should and should not be declared. The court would interpret the term against the insurer as they are trying to rely on it and hence as in this case, the insurer has backed down and will review their wording. The way I see it is just phone it in. I told my insurance company that I had fitted both winter tyres and a spare set of alloys to the ST and they didn't charge anything. They made a note of the tyres but didn't care about the spare rims!Peace of mind by having declared though 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ianb Posted February 8, 2015 Share Posted February 8, 2015 But it seems awfully pathetic that scuff plates etc could invalidate your insurance.. Personally I believe (and this is why I don't have a multi million £ insurance company) that performance mods (including wheels) should be declared, colour mods also (orange car changed to black)... But things like an extra 12v socket, scuff plates, stickers... Etc should be on a "at your own risk" ... So if you install a 12v socket, don't tell the insurance company AND it causes a fire, then I would understand them not paying out... Also with the stereo thing, install a £3k stereo system and don't tell them about it, then don't expect to get the same thing/same money back... I mean heater knobs are something I have in my car... If there is a fire then the heater knobs are no way to blame..however if they get a bit melted and the company wants to repair (rather than scrap) then fine, I understand if I get bog standard ones fitted instead.. But to invalidate your insurance because you didn't declare that you stuck a kinder toy to the dashboard is obviously how they make their cash! Sent via carrier pigeon using Ford OC Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Philf1 Posted February 8, 2015 Share Posted February 8, 2015 Totally agree. If I make a visual mod that have no effect on performance or handling I see no reason to increase my premium if I claim they will return to stock and I will have to pay to do them again. I'm guessing that the company will say that my car is more attractive to thieves so a bigger risk therefore increase in premium. Sent from my iPhone using Ford OC mobile app Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
laumk7 Posted February 8, 2015 Share Posted February 8, 2015 I'm making a few changes to my new car when I get it, each of which has been run past the insurers to check how much they would change my insurance by, and each change there is no difference to the policy. Each of the changes though they have listed on their 'sheet' so each of them they do need to know about. As a pp said, even the factory fitted options packs I have listed as extras,, don't give them an inch and they can't take a mile, there's really no excuse for not declaring mods no matter how minor you think they are tbh The minor mods I've enquired about include: Painting wheels (they even wanted to know the exact colour name) Changing alloys from those it comes with Fitting exhaust trim Built in factory extras Changing gear knob Tinted windows (factory standard on my spec) And so on Sent from my iPad using Ford OC Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ianb Posted February 8, 2015 Share Posted February 8, 2015 Certain things such as window tinting I can understand.. You're potentially reducing visibility - you're more of a risk... I suppose stickers and painted wheels/calipers etc, could give an indication as to "who you are"... You're more into your cars, you might be interested in its limits, i.e. you're more of a risk... But idk, these companies are huge because they don't often have to pay out what is paid in... Sent via carrier pigeon using Ford OC Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Micro Posted February 8, 2015 Share Posted February 8, 2015 Certain things such as window tinting I can understand.. You're potentially reducing visibility - you're more of a risk... I suppose stickers and painted wheels/calipers etc, could give an indication as to "who you are"... You're more into your cars, you might be interested in its limits, i.e. you're more of a risk... But idk, these companies are huge because they don't often have to pay out what is paid in... Sent via carrier pigeon using Ford OC I've had advanced driver training, similar in length and content to the police driving course. My insurance company put my premium up by £30 (was £50ish) because of my job title, but don't recognise the fact I've undertaken the extra training (and IAM membership is negligible).They're saying I'm more of a risk, probably due to travelling times, but potentially also because of the training I've done. You cannot win! :) Sent from my Nexus 4 using Ford OC mobile app Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ianb Posted February 9, 2015 Share Posted February 9, 2015 I wonder if race car drivers normal insurance is high.. Sent via carrier pigeon using Ford OC Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Micro Posted February 9, 2015 Share Posted February 9, 2015 Probably! Sent from my Nexus 4 using Ford OC mobile app Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
turbohater Posted February 9, 2015 Share Posted February 9, 2015 So when the tyres wear i cannot replace them with a different make ?.Same for Wiper Blades,spark plugs ,air filter,bulbs,clutch cable,brake shoes and pads,The list is endless,what would be classed as ok to change without informing the insurance.If i dont wash and polish my car it will look less attractive to thieves so do i get a discount on the premium ;) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jace1969 Posted February 9, 2015 Share Posted February 9, 2015 They are weird at times,rang up my insurance a month ago telling them about my 'pass air bag switch and light blank' All fine and policy came with it added,i told them when i had the switch with the light on for the air bag it's got the ESP on/off switch as you know you can't have all 3 just the 2 or the 1 but i don't think you can have just the light but might be wrong and would be a waist anyway seeing i have ESP and don't have front parking sensors so this was the best choice. Never added the ESP switch on policy so rang them and said about it,they said because it comes in a block switch it aint a problem and a lot of cars have ESP on/off from new anyway,ringing me back in 48 hours to make sure and i want it added. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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