Insurance And Mods

[MONDEO TXS 2.2]

The potential consequences of being uninsured are not worth the risk of non declaration - if one can't afford the insurance - don't buy / drive the car.

[Dee_82]

With most things you have to prove something was done, not that it wasn't, if applied here it would mean the insurance company would have to prove you changed it an knowingly lied ... Meh, clear as mud!

[Dee_82]

Oh I agree, better safe than sorry, just wondering what happens when average jo tries to claim to be told no cuz his car has been modified which he had no knowledge of or ability to detect

[MONDEO TXS 2.2]

I guess the definitive answer is to obtain signed & dated & witnessed written confirmation from the seller that the vehicle has or has not been modified, & if it has, a list of mod's & offer a copy to the insurance company.

[JC600]

A lot of my mods, are genuine Ford upgrade parts, but still declared them. Just for peace of mind.

A lot of parts wouldn't effect performance or make a car dangerous. But insurance companies make the rules so that's it really. You have no choice.

I know some people won't know if a car has been modified, which then just becomes a grey area when claiming.

[Dave_TDCI]

I don't really think that it's as straight forward as don't buy a modified car if you aren't prepaired to pay the insurance as a buyer really might have no idea that a car has been modified. If I was selling a car I wouldn't sign a declaration to say it hasn't been modified incase a previous owner had done a mod I was unaware off.

Simple things like blanking an egr valve, unless you go and take apart the egr you aren't going to be aware of this. A DPF removal, you could very easily buy a car where this has been removed and what happens if the owner tells you that it hasn't been removed when he is fully aware it was, even if you got a signed declaration stating the car is standard, chances are you will never see that person again if buying privately and I don't think the insurance company will be too interested that you have a false declaration from someone you can't track down.

I understand that if you remap your car and similar mods and if you don't declare them your policy may not hold up if a claim arises but there must be a vast amount of mods that could be done from previous owners that the current owner would be completely unaware of and then come claim time they're left in the sh*t because of this.

I'm sure the insurance companies aren't to concerned about this as if they can wriggle their way out of a pay out they will but I just think that they're must be lots of people that got caught because they didn't declare a modification that they didn't know was there in the first place.

[JC600]

I didn't say that, I said "it's a grey area". Like you said there's lots of mods you can't see. And that's why it's a grey area. There's also dealer specials with extras added on etc etc

It's just one of those things, unless your very clued up and know the ins and outs of every car, you will never know what parts of a car have been modified.

Like I said, it's a grey area.

[Dave_TDCI]

I've a feeling that the insurance companies aren't in any rush to clear up this "grey area" either.

I suppose it depends on the insurance group you're with aswell, some will be more relaxed than others.

I did notice on my policy though it said something along the lines of this policy is on the terms and conditions that your car isn't modified in any way and standard from factory.

[JC600]

I've just always had modified insurance schemes, because I know that I can't resist modifying my cars lol :)

[luke.grimbley]

Count yourself lucky. I put the ST spoiler on and they refused to cover me with it. I am not with a different insurer.

[Dee_82]

That's just it tho isn't it, how would an everyday Joe know what an ST spoiler looks like, you an I could point it out but my partner wouldn't have a clue. There's bound to be some case history around the internet.

[luke.grimbley]

I had a guy I used to work with bought a new mini. He didn't know much about cars. It had a front splitter fitted which was hardly noticeable. He didn't declare it because he didn't know it wasn't the norm. His has was hit from behind whilst parked at the side of the road. He had to claim as the other drive didn't stop or leave details. The insurance inspected the car and refused to pay out as it was "modified". Thankfully the other driver was caught thanks to CCTV.

Point is that insurance companies are just there to scam. They get away with charging over the top because its a legal requirement. The "modifications" had nothing to do with the crash which just proves they were trying to get out of the claim and all costs.

After that I don't take any chances.

[mrmetallica]

Count yourself lucky. I put the ST spoiler on and they refused to cover me with it. I am not with a different insurer.

that is shear crazy.the girl on the phone when i rang to tell them said to me is it an exhaust .to witch i obviously said no so asked me if it was something else cant remember what.obviously she knows nothing about cars.

[artscot79]

Insurance assesors get a print out of all the options fitted to the car from the factory they also have the ability to check if the cars chipped the reality is its the new owners responsibility there are certain things they may take no notice of but it all depends on the company naturally they don't want to pay out so if they can find an excuse they will ....my punto was taken by trailer by the insurance company to a garage where a full assessment was done I knew one of the boys and he told me that with the assessor there they went through a checklist engine mods suspension mods interior mods etc

Lets be honest if you buy a motor that's scraping the floor you know its modified just like you open the bonnet and see a big induction filter or noisy exhaust you know so its on you to inform the insurance

[Dee_82]

"Customers act in good faith if their non-disclosure is made innocently. This may happen because the question is unclear or ambiguous, or because the relevant information is not something that they should reasonably know. In these cases, the insurer will not be able to ‘avoid’ the contract and (subject to the policy terms and conditions) should pay the claim in full."

http://www.honestjohn.co.uk/faq/insurance-disclosure/

as taken from the above

So in theory, if it is unreasonable for you to know if something has been carried out then they should pay out, the policy terms and conditions might be a little tighter but further up the article it does mention that common sense should be applied to any claim.

It would be unreasonable for a new owner to dismantle the engine to check if an EGR plate had been added as would, opening the DPF to check its contents or having to download the ECU to check against know unmodified ECUs to check for remapping or DPF software. But lets say it were possible for them (the insurance people) to check the date in which it was modified on the ECU which isn't unreasonable. If that date was after the point you took ownership then you could reasonably be held accountable for deliberately misrepresenting the facts at which point you would loose you money and the insurance.