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focusowner1
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Ide call the police and report it as suspicous you don't change the engine in an hour not to do it correctly....the new engine may be lower mileage but if its the same age then the timing belt is still due to be done as is the water pump.

Dirty coolant in some circumstances can be a bad sign if there's no coolant in it its just rusting away the engine and radiator.

The timing belt kit I just checked an old ford reciept for the my old mk1 1.8 the same as yours parts total was £ 148 that's timing belt tensioner and new cam bolt as well as aux belt that's fords prices which are higher than where he got them from my mates garage did a check for me a timing belt kit to them at trade price including tensioner from gates is @£78.42 inc vat the water pump is £29.88 inc vat coolant £12.00 for the whole system they're price including labour 156.81 inc vat

If I'm honest IDE call the police and tell them you think you've been conned explain to them and they may even go down with you on Monday

To transplant the engine as a garage they require the original v5 for the old car and a recent mot certificate with the mileage if you had the reg number you can do a vehicle check on dvla website showing if its taxed motd mileage etc once the transplant I complete a proper garage would give you after showing you the originals a copy of all the above to add to you're info on the car as a result you have proof of mileage should you wish to sell

I know you don't want to hear it and its not personal but you must be careful of where you take you're car son garages will take the Mick just because you're a woman they figure out in minutes you've no idea what they're talking about then shaft you

I've seen this trick before the car could have been they're own car you're engines in better nick than theres so they feed you a load of rubbish give you the crap engine and put you're good one in there car

Police police police that's what I advise it smells dodgy to da the very least then report them to trading standards

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This guy sounds like a real cowboy!! Forgive me, this is likely to be a long post containing my observations. I'll do it in order of the posts I read.

Most of what you've relayed to us sounds dodgy as hell!!

First of all, that screeching sound you described - I would have expected that from the auxiliary belt - it's not uncommon. I'm not saying it wasn't the timing belt. Fair call asking for new timing belt and water pump, like you said - unknown age/condition anyway.

Next is the talk of his supplier...if he's got a cheaper supplier, why didn't he use them first?

Then - what the hell is he doing fitting a second-hand one? False economy much?! And off of a scrap car? Not only that, like Stef says - they come as kits...

Then they've replaced the WHOLE engine? Why?

That's like having a heart transplant because you've cut yourself!

And you've not received ANY information regarding the donor vehicle/engine.

Granted, minor oil leaks are common - but surely that should have been picked up before the car was returned to you?

The icky brown water suggests to me that it's been refilled with plain water at some point. The brown stuff is likely to be rust. Ought to have been flushed and filled with the right anti-freeze/coolant mix.

Water pump vane? The pump does have vanes - like blades - to make the water flow. I'm guessing he's told you that one has broken off and has caused major damage to the engine? In my experience, they tend not to break up like that - they wear away steadily due to cavitation.

I believe you only have to notify the DVLA of a change IF it alters it from its build specification - I could be wrong

He managed to fit an engine in a hour? He should get a job with an F1 team...assuming he's genuine (yeah...right...)

You say they showed you the old engine, and it's definitely different?

Is that it LOOKS different? If so, can you get pictures of both the engines and post them? Also tell us what size engine you're supposed to have (there are folks on here who can tell you everything you need to know about a car just by looking at a wheel nut!! Well, almost).

Just because they have shown you another engine doesn't mean they've actually swapped it out. I'm a little concerned that they happened to have this engine to hand ready to show you. I would have expected them to have put it out for disposal...

I noticed you said you have breakdown cover through your bank - it's still worth contacting them, they may still be able to help. Definitely talk to Trading Standards and CAB before you agree to any more work being done.

Write out your concerns in a word document and save it - handy reference if nothing else.

I've googled it - and the engine should have a number etched into the block near the bell housing. It's worth making a note of the one currently in your car, I would imagine that a Ford Dealer would be able to very quickly tell you if it's the original engine

I'd also recommend sending a message to our very own Caped Crusader: The Dark Knight and ask him to have a read of this thread. He's our resident legal aide - don't know if he's seen this. If he had, I would have thought he'd have commented.

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This doesn't sound right at all! You take your car in for a timing belt change and they replace the engine?! What?! :o

I'd be contacting the police as a matter of urgency on 101, it could be from a stolen car being taken apart for spares (dodgy engine in place of a genuine engine), especially if it has lower mileage than your current car

Finding a garage you trust is paramount, when building that trust I tend to watch what they're doing, it's easy to see confidence in the job at hand in those first five minutes, and also easy to see when something is wrong.

Sent from my iPad using Ford OC

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Massive thank you!

OK he said he was only charging an extra hour labour, because, the 'lump' (what he called the engine) was to be out anyway to fit the tensioner, so was not much extra work really??

By different engine in my car, I meant, there is one engine in my car and another engine that he showed me as my old one, at his garage, outside ready for disposal. They looked the same by the way.

I've messaged the mechanic asking for a statement to be ready ffor me Monday with all the details of the donor car on. I've not yet had reply, but it is Saturday night.

I've also asked for a message with the details of what was wrong exactly with my old engine and why he put the other one in.

Like I said, he did explain to me on the day, but it was like listening to a different language.

I have a 7 month old baby that I have to work around at the moment too! This is a massive inconvenience to me! My husband is working all hours bless him and feels awful that he can't come with me.

I won't ring 101 just yet, I'll wait to hear back from the mechanic first... Shall update here when I do.

Many thanks again all!

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Since when does an engine have to come off for a tensioner to be changed? Maybe I have been around American cars too long now but I'm sure even European engines work on the same principle and similar designs. This has to be by far the most frustrating thing I've ever read. Put simply if anyone ever decided to change the engine in my car behind my back I would kill them.

Rant over.

Sent from my iPad using Ford OC

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The tensioner does not require the removal of the engine you can do it two ways first is to remove the driver side engine mount bolts then jack it up slightly or remove the wheel arch liner either is an was job taking no Tim at all to do so the mechanic is talking utter rubbish the engine you now have has I'm assuming no new timing belt or tensioner which needs replaced as its at least 10 years old the cooling system needs drained flushed and refilled with coolant/water mix or you're engine will slowly cook itself to death add to that the oil leak issues you have.

The only reason to have replaced the engine would be very loud knocking from the bottom end you will have clearly heard this if it was the case

Head gasket you would have had overheating issues lack of power rough running etc

A cracked engine again if the car ran it would have been pouring steam out and you're have no water in the car

The original timing belt snapped which it didn't if it had it would have bent the valves these can be replaced

Honest opinion from having worked in a garage you're mechanic doesn't have a clue if he did he would know you do not have to remove an engine to change a tensioner he is giving you a load of rubbish about tensioner costs as well that's fact I personally believe he either made a complete mess of the Job and ruined you're engine

Do what you said above and ask for the original engine to be put in you're boot as you're taking it to another garage to get a second opinion see what he says if he has anything to hide he will say anyone of these to you......im sorry its already been disposed of......i can't do that as it was a part exchange on the engine we put in.....or some other rubbish story

I'm being honest you're being too nice I understand its difficult with the baby etc but you have to grow a pair and understand you've been had by a dodgy mechanic don't be nice giving them chances to shovel you more rubbish be firm and say you're not taking the pxxs out of me now I'm sure if you went into any other garage and explained this to them they would happily help you out they aren't all bad otherwise you need someone who knows about cars a friend a neighbour to speak to them with you they know you don't have s clue so they'll use fancy technical speak to confuse you more

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Thank you for clarifying that. Thought I was going crazy for a moment trying to work out why an engine would need removing simply for a tensioner change

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P.s his explanation is the water pump vain broke off entering the engine causing internal damage most likely son had metal gains some plastic the gains are not known to cause damage as they are quite small any damage would have been evident from over heating and running problems in assuming the car was running fine besides the screech which was most likely just a £13 fan belt if so he's fobbing you off as said previously the timing belt kit comes with a tensioner no need to buy one seperate please contact trading standards monday morning that way theres record of the case

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He told me it would have been hundreds of pounds worth of work to fix my original engine. Made out he did me a massive favour by putting the other engine in it.

He replied late last night and told me he'd have all the info ready for me, on Monday morning when I take the car in.

So apparently he's gonna have a receipt thing for me for proof that he swapped the engine and all details of the donor vehicle.

And will be fixing the oil leak on the car and seeing what's up with the water...

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My brother is going to come with me to the garage.

I should imagine they don't still have my original engine anymore. It was Monday I went to collect the car now. What shall I say if he tell me he's disposed of it or something?

Should I not let them fix the oil leak then tomorrow? I really need my car for Wednesday and I really cannot afford to take it elsewhere when they've said they'll sort it out? Should I go tomorrow, get them to fix the leak... And then take things further? Or do I just go down to see what they got to say, and then not have a fixed engine for the foreseeable as I know i cannot afford to get it done elsewhere just yet :(

Wish I'd just kept my KA now :'(

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the art of manipulation, lesson 1, make your target in your debt, someone who feels indebted to someone else will be less likely to challenge back because "they did me a favour"

The problem as I see it is this, you have a bunch of guys on here that are extremely knowledgeable both collectively and individually, they all agree that this shouldn't have happened, so its likely this chap is being dishonest about something, what that is we don't know, most likely he screwed up your old engine. That just makes it hard to believe anything else

It might be worth asking to take a picture of your old engine, do it in an innocent ive no idea I'm just doing as ive been told way, if they let you do that, then you can ask to have the engine put in the car. Ask them straight out and they may just say its gone.

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point 1 the car was fine when you took it in so the engine couldnt have been terminal if his excuse is the water pump vane broke that rarely does any damage and a coolant flush will clear any debris its rare for damage to be caused if it was youre temp gauge would have been in the red and teh engine would revert to an airpump on 2 cylinders so a serious lack of power

point 2 timing belt kits come with the tensioner no need to buy one and not at £75

point 3 you do not need to remove the engine to do the timing belt or tensioner ask any garage even an aprentice mechanic knows this

point 4 the new engine still needs if he didnt do it the timing belt and tensioner done regardless of mileage it will be nearly 10

years old and pased its change date 10 yrs or 100k miles many dont last that long its recommended 6 yrs

point 5 if the engine was out the oil leak should have been dealt with and the cooling system flushed anyway since he had to

drain it to remove the engine

point 6 timing belts rarely screech fan belts do and take 30 mins and less than £50 to do at a garage

i doubt hes disposed of it already garages wait till they have a lot of stuff before moving it if he has ide be even more suspicous

either he tried to charge you for a kit and only bought a belt put it on and mucked it up bending the valves

he put a kit on and didnt do it right bending the valves either the old tensioner gave up or he timed it up wrong and didnt check the timing properly or he did the kit and forgot to tighten the bolt causing the belt to come off bending the valves

or he wants youre engine for the supposed scrap car for whatever reason

either way its not right most of us can do the belt in our driveway and were not expert mechanics but we know our way round a ford especially having owned quite a few if collectively were saying somethings not right you can bet somethings not right ive worked in a garage and ive never heard of anything like this even from the rubbish ones that couldnt mend a plug he knows whats up with the water it doesnt take a rocket scientist to know he hasnt put any coolant in it more worrying is if that muck is from inside the engine youve got problems ahead as it means its rusty inside the engine meaning its not been maintained well or left out for a long period of time

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Blimey, that made interesting reading! I am not mechanically minded so for that knowledge you can rely upon previous posts. As for your legal rights, you still have some but the expectation of quality isn't as high as with new cars obviously.

Can you at least manage without the car? - I ask this because you really need to reject it and stop using it immediately.

Given what has happened so far, I would not contemplate further repair work. You need to type up a letter tonight and hand it over to the dealer which states that you reject the car and want your money back.

How much did the car cost? - I ask because the amount claimed in court will bump up the court fees (they are low in the small claims court)

You do not need any legal skills or knowledge in the court room because the small claims court recognises the consumers need help and might not have any knowledge. There are a few letters which must be sent before any court action takes place but lets not worry about that in this initial post.

The dealer should be given chance to repair a vehicle rather than the consumer insisting on a refund. However, at your cost, you have already handed over the car for repair and they have made a catastrophic mess of it and put a new engine in without consulting you - The new engine has ramifications for you because of DVLA and insurance requirements and the new engine has problems anyway. The knock on effect is a significant inconvenience to the consumer.

You have gathered receipts and so on. Now place them into a ring binder folder in a nice organised and logical order using dividers and a contents page. Also type a chronology of events as a bullet point list. I promises this will help even if it sounds like more work.

The relevant legislation is the Sale of Goods Act 1979 and the relevant extracts are as follows:

Where the seller sells goods in the course of a business, there is an implied term that the goods supplied under the contract are of satisfactory quality.

For the purposes of this Act, goods are of satisfactory quality if they meet the standard that a reasonable person would regard as satisfactory, taking account of any description of the goods, the price (if relevant) and all the other relevant circumstances.

For the purposes of this Act, the quality of goods includes their state and condition and the following (among others) are in appropriate cases aspects of the quality of goods—

(a)fitness for all the purposes for which goods of the kind in question are commonly supplied,

(b)appearance and finish,

©freedom from minor defects,

(d)safety, and

(e)durability.

If the buyer requires the seller to repair or replace the goods, the seller must—

(a)repair or, as the case may be, replace the goods within a reasonable time but without causing significant inconvenience to the buyer;

(b)bear any necessary costs incurred in doing so (including in particular the cost of any labour, materials or postage).

The Act then goes on to say that the buyer may require the seller to rescind the contract if they have failed to comply with repair requirements noted above. Which they clearly have.

Finally, have a read of this fairly detailed topic where I discussed the various processes with another member who had a sale by description argument (different argument to this but the same process applies). He did not want to pursue it in the end so that really is the ultimate point for you. Are you prepared to see it through?

http://www.fordownersclub.com/forums/topic/68103-avoid-motor-mania-manchester/

Once you have digested this and the other topic. Get back to me.

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Maxine, can you confirm if the garage you're using is the same one you bought the car from?

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Maxine, can you confirm if the garage you're using is the same one you bought the car from?

Indeed. Or if the mechanic has been organised by the dealer in a bid to repair as opposed to you finding a completely unrelated mechanic.

Does the dealer have a website out of interest?

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The mechanic has nothing to do with the place I bought the car from

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Then you have a problem. If you were to bring an argument against the dealer as I outlined above, you would not succeed. I assumed that either the dealer had repaired it or that the mechanic had been arranged through the dealer.

There might be an argument under the Supply of Goods and Services Act (reasonable care and skill) instead but I would need to look into it in more detail.

The other option in the meantime is to google the mechanic garage and see if anyone has left any iffy feedback before so you get an idea of what to expect from any future dealings. Also worth getting a second opinion from another local garage.

By all means talk to trading standards as suggested earlier by other members. Very unusual situation I must say.

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They are no dodgy reviews anywhere that I can find. They're a relatively new business, only been opened a couple of months. There are 3 mechanics working there. 2 of them are the co owners. I went to them because in new to the area and having owned my own business I understand that drumming up new work is hard and thought I'd give them a go.

They had a few good reviews online and were quick in getting back to me with quotes etc.

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See what happens tomorrow and we will take it from there. Very unusual set of circumstances I must concede. I usually help with issues with dealers which are more straightforward in theory but this one takes much more pondering.

Keep us posted :)

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I will update tomorrow evening, thank you very much

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See what happens tomorrow and we will take it from there. Very unusual set of circumstances I must concede. I usually help with issues with dealers which are more straightforward in theory but this one takes much more pondering.

Keep us posted :)

Something a little different to keep you sharp, eh?! :D

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I see you are not far from me, if you get fobbed off again I may be able to go there with you and quiz him, as I am a mechanic myself and this sounds too dodgy, I am only 15 miles from Carmarthen, so let me know how you get on

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Thank you pink panther! I'll update tomorrow! :)

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