£100 Parking Ticket!

[jeebowhite]

Well, I was out today shopping at our local outlet centre. Parked up in an area that previously had been a shared parent toddler space. which has now been rebranded as a disabled bay.

I parked in it, knowing full well and having been advised these were "joint spaces" for use by disabled individuals and also Parents and Children.

Came back to find a £100 notice slapped on the car courtesy of UKPC. (kindly reduced to £60 if paid within 14 days).

I found myself writing a rather long and detailed email about this and send it to the parking authority, and I am pretty sure they would reject it. I have also emailed over a copy of the appeal to the outlet centre asking them to review and if they agree with any points, support the appeal.

What a ridiculous fine! If nothing else, I suppose the best case scenario is it gets wiped out, and I get to rant about the appalling circumstances. Worst case scenario, it gives me an opportunity to save up for the ticket out of this and next months pay checks!

I dismayed the ticket under the following reasons:

1) The ticket printer was faulty, as such the ticket was not printed correctly leaving a blank space straight down the middle of the printed text. If I read the text and ignored the place were it was bank, it would have said "parking in a disabled persons space, but clearly displaying a valid disabled persons badge" this really means less than the reason for the parking there.j

2) The disabled bay was not clear, and there were blacked out lines all over the place which caused confusion, especially as advice from them suggested they were shared use, and

3) A member of staff (name not caught) confirmed that the disabled bays where joint use for both parent and toddler and disabled.

4) Other vehicles were parked there and the same scenario (parent in a disabled bay) and what appeared to be someone walking around in a blue vis jacket just leaving them to it! WTF should I be victimised!!!

Anyway, lets see what comes out of this.

[GrahamJC]

I think I am correct in saying that the Court of Appeal is soon to give a decision on whether or not the sum demanded by

these companies in some cases is a genuine pre-estimate of loss or a penalty (in which case it would be unenforceable). In

any event it is purely a civil matter and if you refused to pay they would have to sue you in a civil court for the money,

which they rarely do. Wait until you receive a response to your email and let us know how you get on.

[Rogue2]

In car parks a disabled driver/vehicle (blue badge holder) can park in the parent & child spaces (although some car park companies/retailers don't allow it) but parents with children cannot park in disabled spaces.

Was the space previously marked as a parent & child space? & was it recently changed to a disabled space?

When I park in car parks I always check the boards to make sure they haven't changed the rules/ terms of parking. I park in both normal bays & disabled bays (if my mum is with me) & I always check if blue badge parking is free or if we still have to pay. Some car parks still charge blue badge holders to park in their car park.

[Stoney871]

Take photos of all signage and bay markings.

If they are at all ambiguous or misleading then they are unenforceable.

This will all help in the case of arbitration

Did the parking signs display anything referring to clamping?

If so they are not enforceable due to clamping by private companies being outlawed from doing so since 2012.

Many companies have been lazy in not updating signs to comply with current legislation and if this particular site has not been updated then all tickets for whatever reason are illegal.

[Stoney871]

http://www.ukmotorists.com/parking%20regulations.asp

[Stoney871]

Saw this and just had to post it ;)

You should lobby for this sign to be installed-

[jeebowhite]

Must admit I just checked the photos online and the one of the sign shows nothing of clamping vehicles, so I cannot get them on that one!

As I will be awaiting further response from both the parking company and the outlet,and submit further evidence to both, I must admit, I think I will be liable for the fee, though I wont be accepting that just yet! I dont think I would bother taking the matter to court, but here are some of the photo's collected so far...

And here underneath this car, appears to be what can only be seen as the permission to park there with children.

Not that its overly clear...

I will be returning tomorrow to take more photos of the sign and submit the idea that it is unclear as to what entitles parking therewith children.

Hopefully the outlet will support this one.

[angus5041]

I have heard that if you do not pay and ignore any "demands" you may receive there is not a lot they can do, the letters you get may look official and scary because this is what these companies want you to believe , go to the website martin lewis has called moneysavingexpert.com

do not pay anything

[jeebowhite]

They have cases where ccjs have been offered in small claims court lol u don't want to take that chance but at the same time I'm not going to just part with my money straight up.

If it's a lesson learned then that may have to be the outcome but I will push for as much sense to be used as possible!

[Incontro]

Visit either pepipoo or Consumer Action Group for the best advice on dealing with private parking tickets.

[Stoney871]

Those aren't correct disabled bay markings.

No signs or hashed areas.

[jeebowhite]

Haha, awesomeness. In which case I shall contest the formation of the disabled Bay markings.

[jeebowhite]

Come to think of it they do have correct bays around the edges and these are just in the middle. Though to my knowledge the RTA doesn't apply to private car parks?

[Stoney871]

Parking on private land is covered by contractual law not the RTA.

http://www.theaa.com/public_affairs/reports/parking-tickets-private-land.html

[jeebowhite]

Yeah, though they still have to oblige by local law. I understand to enforce disabled bays they need a contract with the local council

[jeebowhite]

Right, I have enclosed for your entertainment, a copy of my appeal (two parts) for my charge. I wonder what your thoughts are!

Appeal Forum.pdf

Appeal 2 Forum.pdf

[Tomsava]

Apologies for the massive essay in advance.

That pretty much nailed it on the head. Had a similar case last year however involving a bus lane. In my case there was no markings on the road stating it was a bus lane (in your case unclear markings) there was a double decker bus parked in front of the bus lane sign (in your case a too high unreadable sign) and I had another car in front of me driving through it (in your case other cars parked in similar spaces and not penalised) I had my ticked cancelled just by stating the above circumstances so you should have no problem at all. I do realize you are going against a private company Where's mine was the city council. However I'd imagine the actually council would be harder to appeal against.

With all the evidence you've gathered I would not pay a penny and let them take me to court if they actually bothered to. They may well threaten you with it but considering the odds are well against them I doubt they would risk making a loss on court fee and wasting your time if they lose the court case.

[jeebowhite]

True that. I have to post these off as they have closed the online submission of evidence. I will go take more photos tonight and see what comes from it. I hope I nail them for it.

[Tomsava]

You should do no problem

[MattDRX]

That car park just looks a mess mate, you've nailed it anyway. I always suggest one of two things with private firms, either ignore completely or take them to the cleaners.

they have no case in there for ticketing you, you're a paying customer and the only way I believe they can enforce a charge on you here is if they can prove 1, you're were not entitled to use that space AND they were out of pocket as all other disabled bays were full for the duration of you staying there, they would need CCTV to enforce a claim on that.

It won't go to court though dude, I've ignored about 30+ tickets over the past 5 years, inc Train Stations managed by private firms, Tesco and Gatwick Airport, never had anything come of them and never paid a single penny except the last one I wrote to my Local MP who had it wiped as they ticketed me in 9 mins and the machine wasn't working and pay by phone said number plate not recognised, shame you cannot write to them yet until the election is up.

May also be best to copy in the council on this to raise awareness.

[jeebowhite]

Yeah will be raising it to then also.

[Phil 87]

Good luck getting this sorted, they have no reason to fine you for that. The thing that would bother me is that by the time you've got it sorted, you might have wasted so much of your time that the £60 fine could seem like a good deal. I suppose that's where the "ignore it" idea comes in, but if it was me I'd be worried about what would happen if they take it further.

[jeebowhite]

Yeah that's my thoughts too. I have spent about 5 hours on it now, but as I had little better to do with my time I'm thinking of it as research for the forum lol

[jeebowhite]

Updated the appeal with new photos I'm daylight to back the argument. Will add them soon

[b1g_dav3]

I ended up with a £70 fine for parking in a loading only area, no ticket I just ended up with a letter a month after saying I had an outstanding ticket, asked for evidence and they had pictures but I had no ticket, and a picture of the sign where my car wasn't even parked... a week later there's a pole with no sign and it was claimed the sign had been stolen between me being there and trying to find the sign, ended up with a court date after trying to appeal and just paid it. Absolutely ridiculous that they can just do that and then just take you to court, even after appealing with a strong case but I can't afford to take time out to go 50 miles away to a courthouse because of a parking ticket.

Ridiculous, the place is full of cars where people park and walk into town, so I park up in this apparent loading only area to unload my girlfriend's things moving back to University and end up with a damn fine that mysteriously disappeared. There is literally no reason for it being loading only either as it's completely residential.

I find 'parking enforcers' or whatever the prats are called absolute scum, the amount of time I've seen them waiting in areas for people who don't know about a suspended parking area or for a ticket to expire by literally 30 seconds is ridiculous, and especially where they know it's someone old or infirm who won't ever challenge it because they don't have the ability. The lot need throwing into a pit of illegally parked post-it notes, each one describing how they're a lower form of life than an amoeba. No offence to amoeba-kind.