Whine At Low Speeds And Grey Smoke When Accelerating.

[simcor]

My 1.6 TDCI is a little bit poorly, although I have managed 57mpg last week the highest I have ever had out of it.

At low speeds I get a distinct whine/whistle nosie but this is not noticeable when you are moving along nicely.

Also at lows revs accelerating it does chuck out some grey smoke that is continuous for most of the time while accelerating and then eventually clears, but happens ever time I accelerate.

I am guessing I have a boost leak somewhere? It does not really seem down on power although I am finding I am changing down a gear a bit more often lately where I think i would not have done before.

Any ideas on what and where to check first?

[simcor]

Anyone got any common leak points for me to check first. I need to find time to look at it but will be the weekend most likely.

Will try and get a video of it if I can with my phone and screen mount.

[simcor]

Video of the noise

http://i934.photobucket.com/albums/ad187/simcor_/Mobile%20Uploads/th_WP_20150503_18_05_27_Pro.mp4

I am a little worried as it sounds like its coming from the turbo. No play in the shaft that I can tell.

Any ideas?

[Mark222]

The whine whistle noise sounds like the Turbo as does the grey smoke to confirm it. :(

If it is not the Turbo then check all the pipework....then lastly check the intercooler for splits....had this problem with a saab.....intercooler had split knackering the turbo.....got the turbo re-conned and it knacked it again 2 weeks later.....then eventually the garage found the intercooler was split......once that was repaired and another turbo fitted it was golden.....costly mistake not checking the intercooler. :(

p.s....just listened to your video and thats exactly what mine sounded like mate.

[simcor]

I am really hoping that is not the case but knowing my luck it will be.

Thanks for the reply buddy.

[Mark222]

Like i said check all the pipework too and from the turbo and also the intercooler, especially if there is no play on the impeller shaft.

[simcor]

I will check the impeller again when I get chance and try and check all the pipework as you suggest.

[simcor]

Well I have had another look at it this morning, there is a small amount of play on the Turbo impeller, around 1-2mm movement up and down and possibly left to right.

The whine is definitely coming from the turbo.

So I really do not know what I am going to do. I have not even owned this car for a year yet and have done only 10K miles in it.

I also notice there is a leak around one of the injectors as in the picture here

This is all I need right now as I need my car to travel to work every day.

Problem being I don't want to chuck money at it changing the turbo and banjo pipe to find it goes again.

I need to look at posts as to why these turbo's fail so often, although I know from here that the oil pickup pipe filter can get clogged up with sludge and debris.

Did I read something about injector seals and they can cause these issues or am I making that up?

[Shennas]

The leak around the injected is a common issue and needs the seals replacing. The turbo will cost loads if you take it to a dealer as they will charge most likely for a new intercooler and flash, evan of not required. A new turbo is likely to be £300ish but getting the current one reconditioned my be half that.

Hopefully the is no oil issues in the intercooler etc so no need to be cleaned out, but you will need to check

[simcor]

So after reading a bit more, I need to replace the Injector washers ideally all 4 just to be sure.

Replace the turbo. replace the pick up pipe and banjo bolts.

Remove and clean the sump.

Remove and clean the intercooler.

Remove and clean all pipework.

At the very least in the hope of sorting it?

I would not take it to a dealer or garage as I rarely trust garages to do the job right and not cut corners and pay a fortune for the work as well.

Oh and oil changes at 6K instead of 12K.

He says as it is that simple lol

[Shennas]

I would not clean any thing that does not need cleaning. Air intakes normally come with a sticky coating to catch dust, so if it's not covered in oil it's best not touched. Should like you on the right path.

[Dee_82]

the 1.6 tdci has some issues with Carbon build up, this will ultimately have an effect on the turbo.

There is a chain of thought that says the original feed pipe was positioned too close to the DPF essentially cooking the oil when you turn the engine off.

The leaking injectors can lead to carbonisation of the oil as well.

The breather can introduce quantities of oil in to the intake manifold which will get burnt off and or accumulate in the cylinders, manifold, valves etc.

The EGR is a biggy dumping enormous amounts of carbon in there as well, turning particularly nasty as it joins with the oil from the breather.

All of that leads to carbonisation of the oil and a build up of carbon deposits all around the engine, some of that will end up in the oil, some will get incinerated, some will wreak havoc with piston seals and turbo bearings.

The carbon that ends up back in the sump can block the small banjo bolt leading to oil starvation, but that carbon can easily block up other areas which could contribute to a reduction of oil flow, carbon floating about or building up could work in to the bearings or various seals effectively grinding them away.

this old PDF attached shows what can happen quite nicely. Doing the things you mentioned might help but it could just as easily be a lot worse inside and all that effort and cost could go down the drain. !Removed! Carbon!

ive spent the first year of owning this car trying to prevent this, Sump is the next thing to come off and be cleaned out replaced along with pipes, been doing 6k oil changes, fixed the DPF, EGR, injectors, added a oil catch tank to the breather. Carbon deposits in the old oil gone from lumpy to smooth

turbo-dv6ted4.pdf

[A_Jobson]

I take it that they didn't address any of these issues when the facelift MK2.5 was released? This seems to affect so many people who have this engine... :(

Sent from my iPhone using Ford OC

[simcor]

the 1.6 tdci has some issues with Carbon build up, this will ultimately have an effect on the turbo.

There is a chain of thought that says the original feed pipe was positioned too close to the DPF essentially cooking the oil when you turn the engine off.

The leaking injectors can lead to carbonisation of the oil as well.

The breather can introduce quantities of oil in to the intake manifold which will get burnt off and or accumulate in the cylinders, manifold, valves etc.

The EGR is a biggy dumping enormous amounts of carbon in there as well, turning particularly nasty as it joins with the oil from the breather.

All of that leads to carbonisation of the oil and a build up of carbon deposits all around the engine, some of that will end up in the oil, some will get incinerated, some will wreak havoc with piston seals and turbo bearings.

The carbon that ends up back in the sump can block the small banjo bolt leading to oil starvation, but that carbon can easily block up other areas which could contribute to a reduction of oil flow, carbon floating about or building up could work in to the bearings or various seals effectively grinding them away.

this old PDF attached shows what can happen quite nicely. Doing the things you mentioned might help but it could just as easily be a lot worse inside and all that effort and cost could go down the drain. !Removed! Carbon!

ive spent the first year of owning this car trying to prevent this, Sump is the next thing to come off and be cleaned out replaced along with pipes, been doing 6k oil changes, fixed the DPF, EGR, injectors, added a oil catch tank to the breather. Carbon deposits in the old oil gone from lumpy to smooth

Just out of curiosity any idea where that document came from? To be honest I think there is a lot of scaremongering with this engine. Any modern turbo-diesel engine will fair pretty much the same as this engine with the carbon build up. I have a ZTT that is on 145K miles almost double the mileage my Focus is at and that has not suffered a turbo failure due to that reasoning and neither do many of the turbo-diesel cars in the world.

Yes a blocked oil feed pipe would starve the turbo of oil and not being lubricated could cause damage also debris getting in the turbo could cause failure.

However having had the oil feed pipe off and measuring the oil flow I got well over the 330ml in less than a minute and pretty smooth oil with very little particle matter suspended in it as well. In fact I only had a litre jug to hand and had to turn the engine off after about 20 secs so didn't even get to the minute mark. So I very much doubt I have an oil supply issue to the turbo.

At the weekend I am going to flush the system and give it a full service for a starting point then check over all the intercooler pipes as I am not totally convinced it is a turbo failure.

If it is turbo failure then it is likely due to some other factor rather than the issues suggested imho.

[IINexusII]

stay away from french diesel engines and you will be fine in the future

[TomsFocus]

I haven't read the whole thread (not time atm, sorry!) but some up/down movement on the turbo impellor is normal. It's the in and out play you are really looking for, or enough up and down to touch the sides.

The turbo shaft 'glides' on oil when the engine's running, so without the engine running and no oil there, slight play is expected.

As for the carbon issues, the reason this engine is so bad for it is partly the location of the solid turbo oil pipe (the DPF basically cooks the oil in there during regen!) and the injectors leaking. Both of these are common on this engine and not so much on others. Then people (often garages!) use the wrong oil which makes things even worse. The right oil really is crucial with this engine and of course regular changes. Plus the older cars have a gauze in the turbo feed, which catches the carbon, blocks and starves the turbo of oil. Later cars have this gauze removed which did help a bit.

Also there's nothing wrong with old Peugeot diesel engines, except their lack of power for a given capacity... I've owned over 10 DW10 HDi's... And theres nothing wrong with the Ford diesel engines...except again not enough power lol. The problems seemed to appear when Ford and Peugeot got together for the DV6...

Only thing I will blame PSA for is the stupid Eolys additive DPF system!! It never did work properly lol.

[simcor]

stay away from french diesel engines and you will be fine in the future

Not particularly a useful post really is it?

[Dee_82]

Just out of curiosity any idea where that document came from? To be honest I think there is a lot of scaremongering with this engine. Any modern turbo-diesel engine will fair pretty much the same as this engine with the carbon build up. I have a ZTT that is on 145K miles almost double the mileage my Focus is at and that has not suffered a turbo failure due to that reasoning and neither do many of the turbo-diesel cars in the world.

Yes a blocked oil feed pipe would starve the turbo of oil and not being lubricated could cause damage also debris getting in the turbo could cause failure.

However having had the oil feed pipe off and measuring the oil flow I got well over the 330ml in less than a minute and pretty smooth oil with very little particle matter suspended in it as well. In fact I only had a litre jug to hand and had to turn the engine off after about 20 secs so didn't even get to the minute mark. So I very much doubt I have an oil supply issue to the turbo.

At the weekend I am going to flush the system and give it a full service for a starting point then check over all the intercooler pipes as I am not totally convinced it is a turbo failure.

If it is turbo failure then it is likely due to some other factor rather than the issues suggested imho.

The flow of oil might not be the problem tho, its potentially the crap in it that can deal the death blow, with it spinning up at 20,000 RPM it doesn't take much crap in the lube to wreck it.

I'm not sure where that came from to be honest, its posted on dozens of websites, usually refereed to with regard to replacement turbos along with the long list of instructions you must carry out if they are to honour the warranty.

If the Turbo is making your noise, then it can only be a couple of things, firstly air, is it leaking, it sounds more like a whine on here than a whistle but its an option. If its not air making the noise then its the turbine, either an imbalance, vibration or friction. the last two can easily be affected by crap oil.

If your sure the noise is coming from the turbo then it cant be anything else. Turbos are remarkable simple things.

Now to be fair, I had a whine the other day, turns out it was a split hose from the airbox to the turbo, the clip had been too tight and had cut it up so it could be something similar.

did you use some engine flush to help clear out the old oil? ive read many horror stories using that stuff, making things much worse if not done right. From what I gather the best way to do it is to flush it, change the oil, run it for a bit, change it again, run it for a bit, then put the good stuff in. Doing all that in the hope the flush hasn't dislodged chunks of crap and deposited it around the engine.

[Mark222]

The thing is if you take it to a garage for a diagnosis like i did they will probably tell you its the turbo like they did with me without finding out the route of the problem.....which cost me 2 re-conned turbos and a new turbo and could have been a new intercooler, but i repaired it myself......if like me you just replace the turbo because they said it was gooshed it could cost a fortune as they only lasted 2 weeks as the split intercooler was why the turbo gooshed in the first place.....but this could have just as easily been a split in the pipe etc.

Also when fitting a new turbo they recommend changing the oil and filter at the same time and bleeding the oil up the pipe that supplys the turbo with oil.....cranking the engine with fuel pump fuse out if i remember correctly.