2008 Ford Focus Titanium 1.6 Tdci - Loss Of Power

[BrightonSam]

Hi all, long time lurker but new member on these forums, hope you don't mind me diving straight in asking for some advice...apologies if this gets a bit long winded too, please stick with me!

I'll start with a bit of back history in case it's relevant, although I'm not sure that it is. I bought my Focus in Feb 2011 from a dealership, it was second hand with one previous owner as a company pool car. Only a few weeks after purchasing it, it suffered from DPF failure and with some stern letters from my to the dealer I managed to get it replaced at no cost to myself.

I have a decent awareness of what DPFs are, how they work and how the car needs to be used. I use my car for reasonably regular long distance drives anyway, and when I don't I make every effort to give it a blast up the motorway.

For about 18 months now I have been suffering from an intermittent problem. Every now and again, usually when motorway driving, the car will start what I can only describe as 'pushing and pulling', almost as if someone is alternating between the brake and the accelerator. This would only be noticable when trying to accelerate, meaning it is hard to get up speed. If I ease up on the accelerator, you wouldn't really notice it. When the car is thrusting there will always be an accompanying cyclical squeaking noise from under the bonnet.

This may last for 5-10 minutes, and then it would revert to normal. I have had it happen twice on a 50 mile drive, yet only once on a 300 mile drive, totally random.

I have had it looked at by various people, problem being it has never replicated whilst they are driving the car. There was also a wastegate noise from the turbo when the engine is revved let to idle.

Various garages suggested various things from DMF to DPF issues to turbo issues. Eventually after lots of discussion my friend's garage settled on it being a turbo issue.

The turbo was replaced (with a recon unit). The wastegate noise disappeared, but the intermittent issue did not, much to my frustration. This was in October 2014.

In the last few weeks, I have now been suffering with a loss of power in the low ranges of all gears. The turbo still kicks in round about 2500 revs bit it is really flat until that point. This is now permanent rather than intermittent. My regular garage who fitted the turbo suggested I visit a diesel specialist, which I did.

They pulled up a fault code suggesting low boost power, and on a very quick inspection suggested there is also excess movement in the turbo.

I feel like these problems are all intertwined in some way, but I can't be sure. I am yet to go back to my regular garage with these findings, but am really just after some advice. I appreciate it's hard to diagnose without seeing the car, but has anyone else experienced something similar and got to the bottom of it?

Any help or advice would be greatly appreciated. I haven't got the money to keep throwing at diagnostics in several garages and being pushed from pillar to post without ever getting a straight answer.

[simcor]

First off try disconnecting the MAF sensor, as poor acceleration could be caused by an under fuelling MAF, MAF's can degrade over time and go out of spec, they can either cause the car to under fuel or over fuel but with over fuelling then black smoke would also be present which you do not mention being an issue. Run it for a test with the MAF unplugged and see if the low down power is restored, if not then the MAF is probably fine.

[BrightonSam]

Thanks simcor. Is this something a novice like myself could do easily or am I best popping into my garage?

[simcor]

Easy look at the air filter box and the large pipe coming out of it houses the MAF sensor, unplug the connector off the MAF, once done take the car for a drive and see if the low down power is restored.

MAF pictured here

[BrightonSam]

Cheers, spoke to my garage earlier and that's something he's tried already.

He's gonna take another look at the turbo for me next week...turns out rather than being a recon Ford turbo it was a new aftermarket one. May have to look into this as that certainly isn't how it was explained to me at the time.

In the meantime if anyone has any further ideas feel free to throw them out there.

Thanks simcor for your advice so far.

[TomsFocus]

Cheap aftermarket turbos often aren't any good! I have and would always go for recon myself (or brand new if I won the lottery lol...).

Usually excess movement in the turbo would cause a loss of power all over though, not just the low end. That sounds more like a VNT mechanism issue or a boost sensor fault.

Your original fault of intermittent 'jerking' is one I have had as well, probably 3 times in 8 months ownership. Others have also experienced it and no-one seems to know why, some say it is an EGR fault and blanking it helps, but I'm yet to try that myself.

[BrightonSam]

Thanks Tom. Yeah I agree about the turbos, I was given the impression when it was replaced that it was a Ford recon and not an aftermarket part, only discovered yesterday that it wasn't. I may look into where I stand with that further

The jerking is frustrating. Whilst intermittent it sounds more common than yours, it is unlikely I will drive 100 miles without it happening. Today will be the first long drive since the power loss so will be interesting to see if it still happens. If not that may suggest a link...?

Interestingly I ran the car around for a few days with the EGR unplugged after reading up online. The jerking still happened so it essentially ruled that one out.

[TomsFocus]

Yeah yours does sound a lot more frequent, and if I couldn't drive 100 miles without expecting it I would look into mine further. As it is so rare currently and hasn't brought up any fault codes I have just ignored it, but would be very interested if you do come up with a definite cause/solution.

Interesting that you've ruled out the EGR like that though, only other thing I thought it may be linked to is the DPF filling up as mine seems to happen shortly before a regen, however that maybe a coincidence as it doesn't happen before every regen. It could even be that the 'jerking' is overfuelling causing soot which is enough for the DPF to need to force a regen...so it's not necessarily as simple as it could be!

[BrightonSam]

Well I did a 200 mile drivr yesterday and I didn't get the jerking once. Could just be pot luck, but starts suggesting to me that it could be linked. It hasn't happened once since the power loss started.

Car drives fine once I hit 2-2.5k RPM, you wouldn't even know there was an issue. Loss is only in the low rev range and that it what is confusing me.

DPF issue is another thing that's been suggested by my garage, as there was some fault code suggesting failed regen. They performed a regen for me in the garage though and the diesel specialist I then took it to told me no DPF fault codes were present.

[TomsFocus]

I kept getting that failed regen code. It's a bit of a vague code though as I keep getting it on my new DPF as well! I think it can mean the regen failed because it couldn't clear the DPF, or one of the sensors is off (maybe it thinks temp has got too high etc) OR as in the case with my new DPF, simply because you shut off the engine before the regen has completed. I know you shouldn't but its not always avoidable, I've had a couple start just as I get to the supermarket carpark for example.

Very interesting that the jerking hasn't happened with your loss of power, I'm wondering if it's something to do with the VNT mechanism. Maybe a damaged vac pipe to the solenoid or something. Will be interesting to hear the final diagnosis on your turbo issue so keep us updated.

[BrightonSam]

Yeah not sure about your model but mine doesn't give any indication that the DPF is clogging up, or if a regen is taking place.

The first I knew of it when I first got the car was when it dropped into limp mode. By this point it was too late, all attempts at forced regen failed.

This means I wouldn't know if I had switched off mid cycle.

Significant design flaw in my opinion.

Yeah I hoping to keep pressing for an answer. What I have noticed is that currently when I accelerate, there is a whirring sound from under the bonnet, which speeds up as the speed/revs increase. The only way I could liken it to is the whirring of a washing machine as it spin rinses.

I don't know if this helps anyone narrow down what the issue could be...turbo related/pipes/throttle? Will look into what you suggested above too.

[BrightonSam]

I do now have an audio recording of this noise which I've just taken if it may help...can't attach it so I've uploaded it to the following link...if anyone is able to take a listen it might help narrow the cause down.

Its the whistly sort of high pitched noise in the background each time i revv up through a gear!

http://vocaroo.com/i/s1GeUcacYqMF

[TomsFocus]

Correct, there is no DPF warning on these Focus', terrible design flaw!

You can 'hear/smell/feel' a regen if you know what to look for though. If you switch it off mid cycle the most noticeable thing is the fans running on after the engine is shut off.

I can't really hear the noise on the video I'm afraid, even if I could not sure I could pinpoint it over the internet.

[JTill]

Hi

I've not read every single reply on here but I had a similar jerking on my car. Started off intermittent and got worse. Turned out to be a clogged fuel filter. no idea if this helps or not.

[Dee_82]

guys, its really worth getting rid of that egr an blanking it off. I did mine at 50k, I ran a bore scope down the intake manifold and the amount of crap in there is staggering with significant baked carbon deposits further down creating some serious restriction.

[TomsFocus]

I am planning to change the fuel filter if I still have the car at the next service. Can't see it causing issues for so long though, mine has been intermittent over 8 months at least, if it was the filter it'd be clogging up badly by now I reckon.

The EGR mess restriction isn't as bad as it looks Darren, on an NA car it would be, but on a charged car of fairly low power it isn't noticeable.

[Dee_82]

I dunno, I could only get down to the 4th cylinder and from the look of it the restriction on that side was about 40% that cant be that good surely, albeit cylinder 2 and 3 should be cleaner inside the manifold the carbon has bound to the oil from the breather, creating a black sticky paste, cant imagine clumps of that coming off is good either.

I'm not sure what the names are or where they go as I cant find an exploded diagram but as you look down at the manifold there is a smaller duct closer to the injector, then a much larger one towards the rear near, closer to the back of the engine. Ive only managed to get down the smaller of the two ducts which leads down in to the engine block then turns 90 degrees, the carbon is baked on just after this in what looks like another circular hole.

I get that the charged nature of the system would force air through regardless but wouldn't that also apply backpressure on the turbo.

Not strictly relevant to the OP but you have to wonder, are all the problems folk have with this engine perhaps just interlinked issues, no single thing can cure it.

[Dee_82]

my fuel filter was about 50% full of water at my last service, I don't think it had been changed for over 50k. ill be bleeding that each service too.

[TomsFocus]

40% restriction would be excessive, I haven't seen it get that bad even on 150k mile diesels! Hopefully it wasn't that thick and looked worse than it is. A few mm is perfectly normal with EGRs and breather oil these days.

As I've said on previous threads I've gone to a lot of effort in the past to clean all of this from manifolds and fully remove EGRs in most cases and it just doesn't make any noticeable difference on low powered charged cars even with a stage 1 remap.

How is the water drained on these? Is it a 10 minute job or wait until doing a service kinda thing? Must admit I've never had to drain water off of one before on any previous car!!

[BrightonSam]

Hi all,

Update as promised. I took the report from the diesel garage back to my mechanic and he agreed to take the car back in for another look. He agreed that the turbo was at fault and he has now replaced it under warranty, as well as replacing a hose which I am told was split.

Car now drives as I would expect and although the longest drive I've been on so far is about 10 miles, I have had no recurrence of the juddering/surging so far either. Don't wish to tempt fate, the test will be Surrey and back this weekend, so fingers crossed!

Just wanted to thank everyone for their input and feedback to this!

[BrightonSam]

Bad news, the surging has returned, very frustrated here as thought I had seen an end to it.

I'm now swaying towards it being a DPF regen issue due to the intermittency and the fact it doesn't happen around town.

Still struggling with the fact that whilst the turbo wasn't performing correctly it stopped happening though.

Any further thoughts or feedback much appreciated!

[Dee_82]

40% restriction would be excessive, I haven't seen it get that bad even on 150k mile diesels! Hopefully it wasn't that thick and looked worse than it is. A few mm is perfectly normal with EGRs and breather oil these days.

As I've said on previous threads I've gone to a lot of effort in the past to clean all of this from manifolds and fully remove EGRs in most cases and it just doesn't make any noticeable difference on low powered charged cars even with a stage 1 remap.

How is the water drained on these? Is it a 10 minute job or wait until doing a service kinda thing? Must admit I've never had to drain water off of one before on any previous car!!

sorry, just noticed your post Tom, building up to removing and resealing the inlet manifold so will hopefully get a better look at what's in there.

~

The filter has a long screw from the top down, undo it and the water will drain out of the bottom. Get some PVC tube to help. Can be done whenever but plan on adding it to the service.

[BrightonSam]

Just another update from me. Been to the recommended diesel specialist this morning.

Talking to him before he reckoned it was unlikely to be a DPF issue as he'd never known it to cause a surging effect.

Having had the car for an hour he is more satisfied that it is. Fault code was present for it and last attempted regeneration which failed was 65km/40mi ago, which ties in pretty much exactly with when the surging last occurred (15mi outside Brighton last night + 25mi to the garage this morning).

He has performed a static regeneration on the DPF, which has been done before. However he told me it appears it wasn't reset after this was done last time which could have caused it to keep attempting, hence the ongoing but intermittent surging.

Also pulled up a couple of side issues from the turbo work last week. Exhaust leak between DPF and turbo and a missing bolt on the boost pipe which I'm going back to my garage for.

Gave the car a bit of a boot back afterwards to see if the surging reoccured but nothing on the 25mi return drive.

Only time will tell if the issue has been solved, but my god I hope so!

Sent from my SM-N9005 using Tapatalk

[TomsFocus]

Sam, good to hear it's finally sorted!! (Hopefully lol)

Dee, no worries, I chose to change the filter anyway, along with a major service 2 weeks ago. Made no difference lol.

[Dee_82]

Sam, good to hear it's finally sorted!! (Hopefully lol)

Dee, no worries, I chose to change the filter anyway, along with a major service 2 weeks ago. Made no difference lol.

ah no, sorry to hear that, whats your plans now, sell up or save the pennies and gut it?

just had a thought, did you try a static regen. Seems crazy it would have blocked up so soon after you replaced it.