Parking Charge Petition

[MattDRX]

So as discussed I will be creating a petition this week to try and limit the cap on fees.

It will be aimed to.

Cap the Charge at 1.5X the daily rate, Charges were supposed to be to recover lost revenue on the parking space, no parking bay makes £100 a day, it cannot when the most I have discovered is £65 a day in Chelsea NCP, discounted to full daily rate if paid within 14 days, no one will be at a loss then.

For when pursuing charges evidence to be submitted to the offender in advance to see the proof that it was in fact their car, at the time and without a ticket and or in the wrong space.

For tickets to be placed correctly, affixed to the windscreen and not tucked under the Wipers, in winter you cannot see them after 5PM when returning to the car and turning the wipers on immediately, more common with automatic wipers they can be wiped off and not discovered, in point a paid ticket to be discarded and then a chaser letter is sent and the "offender" had no back up.

Additions welcome but be constructive.

[jeebowhite]

Where do I start, I will be repeating myself from other threads I rant about these fools:

1) All Parking should be managed by councils, not private companies. - Not likely, but my opinion.That way all revenue goes to the council and is spent on local projects, and the local people. It should not be used to buy the shareholder a new boat.

2) In the event the cartelle of the parking world must exist, Parking restrictions should be sensible. In a car park with no pay to park - you should not be able to receive a ticket - end of, full stop, unless your vehicle is otherwise contravening safety, or blocking the highway. At best, a charge they can apply should be up to £10 to cover the expenses of the ticket, and the printer used for it. I was ticketed £100 recently, for parking in a free car park... that is not justifiable by ANY stretch of the wildest corners of imagination.

3) Any bays used for a purpose, such as disabled and/or parent and child, should be to a standard. I argued this on a recent ticket. Just because it has a yellow disabled picture should not qualify it as a space, it should be of the recommended specification, i.e. width, hashes, erected with a "Disabled badge Holders Only" within the centre of the parking bay, likewise for parents / child parking

4) Evidence should be accepted of any form, companies demand a specific piece of evidence and if that is not present then the driver has no chance in hell of avoiding the ticket, therefore evidence requested should be reasonable and alternative accepted statements of evidence must be accepted.

5) Private Parking must have an alternative to "assumed contract". regardless of if the car park is free or not, a contract should only be formed when a FREE ticket, or a purchased ticket is displayed within the vehicle. Failure to display a valid ticket shows a non agreement to the contract, in which case, if parking alternatives are NOT available in the local area, then a limited period of time is to be offered, to allow the driver to discuss the arrangements, check with a member of staff or seek permission or guidance from the site in question to breach the standard terms of rules. This includes for example, a person with walking disabilities who may need to park in a disabled space, they may not have a disabled badge, however, it should be feasible to speak to site management without persecution and seek "permission" to use the space contrary to its original method, as such some form of "pass" should be given by the landowner / business.

If you do park there, and have made no attempt to enquire of say a "pass card" to use a disabled bay (i.e. there is no evidence of your number plate signing a book in the management office, then a ticket should be issued and chargeable

6) Costs assosciated with a charge MUST be clearly displayed. If your going to charge me a £60 ticket, I want to see that the paper you printed with is made of gold silk and the cost of purchasing that and printing. These costs should be assessed and regulated by POPLA or the BPA. If you can only justify your initial costs as being £15, thats tough luck! that is the maximum you can charge. also, you cannot add the "wardens wages" to a ticket. He has to do that job anyway, thats your cost, not mine!

7) Signs should be visible, and should not exceed 5 feet in height. If they do, they must be accompanied by regular signs which are visible clearly in any conditions by a child. If the child cannot see them clearly, then adults who may either suffer dwarfism, or who may have growth issues, can clearly still read the signs, as can any other driver.

8) Tickets must be entirely legible, if the ticket misprints due to a fault with the printer, it cannot be enforced. The details provided to the driver must be accurate, therefore the ticket should otherwise be handwritten and clearly legible for the purpose of which it performs.

9) Parking bays must be unbroken, and entirely visible, if a line is faded, a charge cannot be issued. parking bays themselves must be photographed to show the full visibility of the line is perfectly clear around the perimeter of the vehicle. A faded, worn or other line which may confuse drivers cannot be enforced as a breach of parking. If you do half a job and half paint the lines, then its been a bay at some time and therefore was accepted as a space of parking. If its not a bay anymore, you must remove all signs of the line, and if this is not suitable, clear, or cannot be done for any other reason, a sign must be erected at this space, stating the bay is no longer in service, and its use will qualify a breach of the parking contract

10) Appeals teams must be more clear to contact, an appeal must have multiple methods of being provided at all times, the use of a website to submit an appeal means you must also be able to update the appeal via that same site. I recently sent a single appeal in via the web, I then collected further evidence and was forced to post it, However, though I have evidence it was posted, and received, they did not review it before they declined my appeal. As such, I should have been able to contact the appeals team on a publicly declared email, or phone number (which must be printed on the ticket!) to advise them not to decline an appeal until all evidence has been seen and reviewed

11) Any costs associated with a POPLA appeal must not be considered an OPEX (Operational Expense / Expenditure) and this fee cannot be passed to the driver.

12) Pay to Park must follow a non confusing standard. I Recently shopped in a sainsbury's where the car park allowed up to 30 minutes free parking, shoppers spending over £10 were permitted 3 hours free shopping. you could print a voucher for the 30 minutes free parking, though the site was ANPR controlled. The signs suggested there was warden patrol. I was worried that as I intended to leave the site first (and then proceed to shop thereafter) that the 30 minutes would definitely expire, and that a warden would give me another ticket. Only later did it transpire, the parking did not have a warden on patrol, and that you pay prior to exit. Signs therefore should be accurate and not in a way contradictory which may make drivers uneasy.

Thats my points for now. Perhaps I will come up with more in the not too distant future.

Long story short, the whole damn game should be rewritten from the ground up, and should include drivers and not just businessmen. Parking is not a business, its a public service, therefore the public should have a right to be involved in the decisions hereby implemented.

[Stoney871]

Aaannd breathe ;)

[Turvey]

Non Blue badge holders should be fined £10 a minute for use of a Disabled space!

[jeebowhite]

Aaannd breathe ;)

Does puffing and panting count :p

Non Blue Badge holders should be fined £10 a minute for use of a Disabled space!

Unless fomer permission is given! I need to park there regularly at the moment, as although I have no blue badge, I have some serious difficulty walking! though I agree, if you pretty much somersault out of the car, you should be shot in the gonads.

[Turvey]

Yes sorry. I should have said it better.

Seeing people in lifted pickups climbing in and out whilst parked in a disabled space boils my p***!!!

[Phil 87]

I'll be signing this when it's set up :)

[WAZ91]

As a new fairly new (not sure i can count 8 months as *new*) parent I think parent & Child spaces should be enforenced to as there are always people parking in them with no kids.

Just the other day i parked up at tesco and a white van man parked next to me on his phone, he must have heard me expressing my disgust to my better half cause he moved on pretty sharpish

[MattDRX]

Parent and Child bays are not a requirement, just there to entice choppers to use their car parks, Disabled is another matter.

Got it typed up in primitive form but they have taken the e-petitions site down again, will check daily and sort it out.

Disabled bays should also only be used when there is a disabled person present, I have seen countless people, clearly a carer or family member using them when perfectly able bodied.

[jeebowhite]

I think parent child spaces should be badge controlled. Your allowed the badge until the child is say 3 years old or longer if they have other issues, but I think car parks should have proportional reserved spaces. The car park I was ticketed at recently must have about 400 if not 500 spaces, with approximately 25 disabled bays and about 4 parent child spaces. I think there should be a minimum proportional supply of disabled and parent spaces for all public car parks on private land. People Park there cars for too close together here in Kent because the bays are about an inch wider than the car. You can't leave you child unattended to drive the car out the space, you can't get them into the car.

As far as I'm concerned it's equally as discriminating as having no disabled bays.

I just encourages people to take up two bays because they need to get their families in and out.

[MattDRX]

Fair point, perhaps if they sort something out with the council, IE registered via Child Benefit they can be issued with a........Red badge, red like the colour you go when taking the kids shopping to identify, easy enough to stop fraud and people taking their 21year old kids in them.

If they earn to much to not be able to claim anything then it's the least of their worries, not every car park can accommodate a Vogue imo and they generally take up 7 spaces as it is.

[jeebowhite]

I must admit, it does my nut when I see large cars like that, rangers, 4x4 where they are as wide as the lines! It's a car park! Not a bleedin off road challenge meeting point! But yeah I think these things should be managed. Every year you get a statement on your upcoming child benefit for the year you get a new badge for one years parking. Even if the damned thing I'd no more than sticker on the window.

[Incontro]

The other day, I was at Nero, and this lady parked her Fiat without paying. Of course a portly council traffic warden comes along, and starts writing a ticket, just as the lady comes back with her coffee. They argue for a few seconds, and then the lady drives off with the ticket in her posession, looking very disappointed.

Now, I have nothing against councils issuing parking fines (and believe me, a lot of drivers DO deserve their tickets), but what I witnessed was quite unfair IMO. Some leniency/discretion could have easily been given.

This type of jobsworth behaviour is killing off local business. Not only should private parking companies be heavily regulated, but councils also need to be kept in check.

[MattDRX]

Technically it's not valid if the ticket doesn't touch the car.

How about as an addition for this, a ticket cannot be enforced for duration under 30mins if only one payment option is currently available when others are proposed to be on site?

Such as card machine not working / taking notes etc? allows time to get change or leave?

[Stoney871]

If a ticket has been completed but not applied to a vehicle it can still be enforced by post.

If a vehicle leaves before completion it will be void.

Currently there is no grace period for paid parking bays however a 10 minute grace period (in order to effect payment) is in the process of being put into place.

I actually observed a CEO this morning check cars outside my house, walk away and return 10 minutes later to process and ticket a car.

At least one CEO in Plymouth does it right anyway.

[MattDRX]

^ But isn't that only if they have photographed it accordingly? like they have to prove it was actually there, they generally take a picture of it with the ticket on the windscreen and with a sign or lines in the pic.

I also think Motorbikes should be chargeable too, no one seems to bother with them due to being able to go under the barriers or over kerbs and between posts etc. all of them near me are free for bikes.

[Stoney871]

There will no longer be a need for a Penalty Charge Notice to be placed on a vehicle, or handed to a driver in order for it to be properly served.

If a vehicle is driven away before the Notice is issued, it may be posted to the registered keeper of the vehicle.

If a Civil Enforcement Officer for whatever reason is unable to serve the Notice it may be posted to the registered keeper/owner of the vehicle.

http://www.newparkinglaws.co.uk/

[MattDRX]

But how will this work, if say they had a ticket in fact and they never got the notice for a week or so and discarded it? again these judges are just in the pockets of the parking cartels. Council ones I understand for street parking etc but private ones need to be put in their place.

[jeebowhite]

There will no longer be a need for a Penalty Charge Notice to be placed on a vehicle, or handed to a driver in order for it to be properly served.

If a vehicle is driven away before the Notice is issued, it may be posted to the registered keeper of the vehicle.

If a Civil Enforcement Officer for whatever reason is unable to serve the Notice it may be posted to the registered keeper/owner of the vehicle.

http://www.newparkinglaws.co.uk/

What a load of twaddle! (not you Clive the content thereof) if they don't serve a ticket correctly they could just pull registrations out the air.

For example, I could walk around as a warden, jot a load of number plates down at random, then, because they don't take photos of the offence until after the ticket is affixed, they could claim the driver left before evidential photos were taken, and you owe them for it.

That is the most absurd idea I have heard yet. It just gives the cowboys an easier way to ride the horse of the public how they like.