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jamesm182

Got A Question About Tyres? Ask The Michelin Expert!

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great to have you on board Jamie! and glad to see your a fellow Ford Man! hopefully we can keep you here joining in on more than just the tyre thread ;) - Lets see them cars!!!! :p

The Cross Climate seem like great tyres, I was wondering if you had any longevity tests done on them? and if you have an estimated mileage from new to needing change out of them?

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great to have you on board Jamie! and glad to see your a fellow Ford Man! hopefully we can keep you here joining in on more than just the tyre thread ;) - Lets see them cars!!!! :p

The Cross Climate seem like great tyres, I was wondering if you had any longevity tests done on them? and if you have an estimated mileage from new to needing change out of them?

We've done loads of testing as you can imagine.. And they last as long as our current summer tyre range.. So if you were running the crossclimate or a primacy3 you'd get the same mileage out of crossclimate..

And as our range tends to last very well.. It's in the same region e.g. Should be better than about anything else mileage wise

The how many miles should I get is tricky to answer as it really comes down to where you are driving e.g. Urban or motorway, and how you drive (heavy brakers are tyre killers )

How many miles have you had from other tyres? Our average across Europe is over 20k miles.. I got 45k out of primacy3 on the front of my mondeo but I've also seen people get 6-8k driving hard

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Can't day I have really either owned my cars long enough to get through a full set of tyres or I have done the almost unmentionable and had to fall back to part worn lol.

I suspect I have the same idea on mileage per tyre ad certain government ministers have on the price of a pasty lol

I tend to do motorway miles though, about a 70/30 split in favour of motorway traffic.

Sent from my GT-I9195 using Tapatalk

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Frank

Just confirm the size and approx when you need them (as we have a new Pilot Sport 4 tyre out in January)

Cheers

Jamie

Ok this is good news because I am a michelin fan, but the PS3 didn't really struck me as really good tyres comparing to Continental SC5 or Bridgestone RE050A. PS3 were soft and they wear out relatively fast. I am from Greece though and the temperatures here are higher than in the UK. Could we get a short preview of the new version of Pilot Sport if possible to convince me to wait until January :D ?

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James,

Thank you very much for agreeing to do this it is much appreciated.

My question really concerns tyres at low temperatures. Quite often you see a particular temperature (say, +7 C) as the temperature that 'Summer Tyres' go off, and that doesn't completely correspond with my experience. I feel that some Summer tyres go off a bit earlier than others, and that there is a range of temperatures over which they get worse. In particular, traction on cold and slightly greasy roads seems problematic for some tyres.

Is this right, or is my impression just wrong and based on some Winters being colder than others (and so the tyres I've got fitted during the relatively mild winters seem better without really being better, when measured objectively)?

A 'sort-of' follow up is to ask about the tyres available in different countries; these days, some tyre suppliers are really international rather than national suppliers, is there any risk that they supply a different spec of rubber, more intended for their home country than this one? Or, these days, is the manufacture of tyres so internationalised that there aren't different spec tyres available, so suppliers can't get this wrong even if they source tyres in a different country?

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Hi Jamie, it's good to hear more about the Cross Climates as I was very impressed by the reviews when these came out. The only problem is they don't seem to be available in the size I need which is 205/40 R17 84W. Do you know if more sizes will become available including this one? This is a very common size considering all MK7 Fiesta ST and Zetec S (2008 onwards) come with this tyre size as standard (anyone want to guess how many thousands of cars that is?).

It looks like these are the best tyres for our climate so would be great to see them in more sizes.

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Hi Jamie I'm with Phil 87 on this one really interested in the cross climate tyres as I've been looking for all season tyres for a while. I can't find this tyre size from any manufacturers and have ask a lot if they have plans to make them and all have said no. It would be good to find out if the cross climates will be made in this size and I can't merit the huge cost of winter tyres.

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Hi,

I have a mk2 escort that I'm working on. Currently on 6x13s with 175/70/13 tyres.

I've recently got, but not fitted, new 7x13 minilite wheels and I'm debating which tyres would suit best.

The specs suggest 205/60/13s to maintain most accurate rolling radius but some have said this may create clearance issues. Other forums suggest 185/60/13 tyres to ensure clearance but note it obviously has an effect on speedo reading. 185/65/13 would be a great solution on paper but they just don't seem to exist...

What advice would you give?

Many thanks in advance

Ciarán

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There is quite a difference between 205/60/13s and 185/60/13s, and I'm a bit surprised that you could be considering both. In any case, check on the prices/availability of 205/60/13s before you decide because they aren't the most common things in the world (and even less common than that, once you eliminate the track day tyres, if you want ordinary road tyres), and they are universally on the expensive side.

Perhaps consider a different profile. And have a look at Will they fit.

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Hi, why no Pilot Sport Cup 2s in 205/40 17 ie to fit ST mk7?

Hi

Our Pilot Sport Cup 2 range require a very complex and secret production process hence we are only capable of producing a limited volume of tyres every year. Hence we analyse the market and look at what sizes would give us the best coverage in the market to produce. Sadly this means that there will be gaps in the size line up, and we won't produce every option as each size needs its own unique mold

We make it in 3 17" sizes at present with the nearest two being 215/45-17 and 225/45-17

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James,

Thank you very much for agreeing to do this it is much appreciated.

My question really concerns tyres at low temperatures. Quite often you see a particular temperature (say, +7 C) as the temperature that 'Summer Tyres' go off, and that doesn't completely correspond with my experience. I feel that some Summer tyres go off a bit earlier than others, and that there is a range of temperatures over which they get worse. In particular, traction on cold and slightly greasy roads seems problematic for some tyres.

Is this right, or is my impression just wrong and based on some Winters being colder than others (and so the tyres I've got fitted during the relatively mild winters seem better without really being better, when measured objectively)?

A 'sort-of' follow up is to ask about the tyres available in different countries; these days, some tyre suppliers are really international rather than national suppliers, is there any risk that they supply a different spec of rubber, more intended for their home country than this one? Or, these days, is the manufacture of tyres so internationalised that there aren't different spec tyres available, so suppliers can't get this wrong even if they source tyres in a different country?

Hi

Thanks for your questions sorry for the delay in replying but I've been watching back to the future again

Ok.. Tyre temps. First thing to consider is a temperature window is just that, it's a range at where the tyre operates at its best. It's not like a light switch where they are on one minute and off the next. We kind of use 7c as an arbitrary figure as it kind of splits Central Europe temperature into two distinct seasons eg summer winter

Tyre temperatures are completely down to the compound ingredients (primarily natural rubber content.. The more there is the lower its operating range approximately) and the temperature of the road surface, the energy inputs and the tread depth left. Ideally you'd let a tyre warm up a little prior to giving it serious grief so that the compound is warm through otherwise the surface and under layers don't store the heat and grip correctly. It's very complex.. Spinning the wheels in the dry simply burns off the surface layer and the tyres cool again..

Tyres per country.. We tend to produce for zones rather than country's so we are in a Central Europe zone. We commonly make very different tyres for the Nordics (super cold) and the USA and Asia but it's also common for us not to always import them into other zones. I'd say buy off a good tyre dealer and make sure it's a tyre that's on the companies local website so you aren't buying a cheap unsuitable imported range

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Hi Jamie, it's good to hear more about the Cross Climates as I was very impressed by the reviews when these came out. The only problem is they don't seem to be available in the size I need which is 205/40 R17 84W. Do you know if more sizes will become available including this one? This is a very common size considering all MK7 Fiesta ST and Zetec S (2008 onwards) come with this tyre size as standard (anyone want to guess how many thousands of cars that is?).

It looks like these are the best tyres for our climate so would be great to see them in more sizes.

We launch another approx 18 sizes next year in Crossclimate. I'm not in front on my laptop at present to verify what size 17" ones are coming so I will look later and post it..

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I have a 2.2 176bhp 2009 S-Max with x-pack, so 18" alloys and 235/45/18 tyres. It absolutely eats front tyres and I drive very, very carefully. I just went through a set of Uniroyal rainsport 3 in 11 months and just under 10,000 miles. I think this is very, very excessive wear. It's been on a laser alignment rig and fully adjusted and it's still eating tyres.

So, I just changed again - fortunately bearing in mind the target of this thread - to Michelin Primacy 3 on the advice of the tyre fitters. They claim that I will get much better wear but it seems to me that the problem may well be that the 18" alloys and low profile is what is causing the problem and that I'd be better off with standard 17" or even 16" wheels instead. With that in mind, is there a "conversion chart" available that will tell me what size tyre I need to go to if I get a 17" or 16" set of wheels to fit so that the speedo is kept roughly in line? I think 16" may be too small so 17" may well be where I head.

So firstly am I likely to get better durability with these Primacy 3 tyres and secondly would I see a big improvement if I went to 17" wheels with a larger profile tyre?

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Ok this is good news because I am a michelin fan, but the PS3 didn't really struck me as really good tyres comparing to Continental SC5 or Bridgestone RE050A. PS3 were soft and they wear out relatively fast. I am from Greece though and the temperatures here are higher than in the UK. Could we get a short preview of the new version of Pilot Sport if possible to convince me to wait until January :D ?

Well

Based upon the data I have showing the tests against the premium competitors and the Pilot Sport 3, the Pilot Sport 4 (which I've driven at our Test Centre in France) is a great step.

More grip (wet & dry), better lap time, more consistent balance, less understeer and importantly less wear (lasts longer)

It will also have a velvet sidewall look as like the Pilot Sport Cup2

Should you wait on them? Absolutely... I am for my car...

Ford are looking at them for 2016-> models already

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We launch another approx 18 sizes next year in Crossclimate. I'm not in front on my laptop at present to verify what size 17" ones are coming so I will look later and post it..

Sadly not...

Nearest 17" sizes are 215/45-17 and that's not much use.

We are building new factories all the time, but it does mean that our production plans have to be based on the biggest volues, especially for tyres in the replacement market.

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I have a 2.2 176bhp 2009 S-Max with x-pack, so 18" alloys and 235/45/18 tyres. It absolutely eats front tyres and I drive very, very carefully. I just went through a set of Uniroyal rainsport 3 in 11 months and just under 10,000 miles. I think this is very, very excessive wear. It's been on a laser alignment rig and fully adjusted and it's still eating tyres.

So, I just changed again - fortunately bearing in mind the target of this thread - to Michelin Primacy 3 on the advice of the tyre fitters. They claim that I will get much better wear but it seems to me that the problem may well be that the 18" alloys and low profile is what is causing the problem and that I'd be better off with standard 17" or even 16" wheels instead. With that in mind, is there a "conversion chart" available that will tell me what size tyre I need to go to if I get a 17" or 16" set of wheels to fit so that the speedo is kept roughly in line? I think 16" may be too small so 17" may well be where I head.

So firstly am I likely to get better durability with these Primacy 3 tyres and secondly would I see a big improvement if I went to 17" wheels with a larger profile tyre?

Well

I can tell you how I get on, as I run 235/45-18 Primacy 3 on my 2012 Mondeo Titanium X I got approximately 40K out of the fronts, but I am ultra easy on tyres. The fact you seem to be getting such a low mileage is a bit concerning.. So it's not just the fact you have 18" wheels

Are they wearing flat and even? or taking a shoulder off first? What kind of driving do you do? Urban/Motorway as that's a big influence

Stop/start is the wear killer, as braking is the worst thing for wear.

If you look on the door shut where the Ford sticker is it will give you the 16" and 17" sizes that you could run.

I'd try looking at other things too. I drop about 5% out of the front pressures, as I found the car was taking a little bit too much out of the centre of the tyres. Alignment and or suspension wear could be an issue.

But in the 85K I've owned the car, I've used 4 Primacy 3's and a pair of Winter's. Hence that's about 30k average a pair.

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There is quite a difference between 205/60/13s and 185/60/13s, and I'm a bit surprised that you could be considering both. In any case, check on the prices/availability of 205/60/13s before you decide because they aren't the most common things in the world (and even less common than that, once you eliminate the track day tyres, if you want ordinary road tyres), and they are universally on the expensive side.

Perhaps consider a different profile. And have a look at Will they fit.

I have to agree

It's really going to come down to what's available. The 185/60-13 was an XR2 size, and the 205/60-13 was a Capri size, so they are both common Ford fitments.

As BOF said, they tend to be used as track day tyres. So there are quite a few small 13" wide tyres that aren't really a road tyre

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Sadly not...

Nearest 17" sizes are 215/45-17 and that's not much use.

We are building new factories all the time, but it does mean that our production plans have to be based on the biggest volues, especially for tyres in the replacement market.

Thanks for checking anyway. I'm not surprised if this size isn't a very high volume because it can be hard to find other tyres available to fit, especially winter tyres.

Do you know if any car manufacturers are planning on putting Cross Climates on their cars from new? I think that would make a lot of sense for the UK market, and probably most other markets too.

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There is quite a difference between 205/60/13s and 185/60/13s, and I'm a bit surprised that you could be considering both. In any case, check on the prices/availability of 205/60/13s before you decide because they aren't the most common things in the world (and even less common than that, once you eliminate the track day tyres, if you want ordinary road tyres), and they are universally on the expensive side.

Perhaps consider a different profile. And have a look at Will they fit.

Thanks for the response.

I haven't found any issues with the availability of either tyre as there are a number of specialist websites that can supply with prices that will include fitting for around £220 all in. I don't think that's at all unreasonable.

I've used the WillTheyFit site quite a bit already and found it a great resource which explains/displays comparative sizes really well. Would definitely recommend it. There would only b a 4% difference to standard if opting for the 185 which isn't really going to make much difference in my general day to day driving. If anything it would be safer as I will actually be going very slightly slower than what the speedo is reading.

You don't really expand on the point in your response so I'm just wondering what your main concern is about the size difference? Why surprised?

Thanks again for the input.

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Well

I can tell you how I get on, as I run 235/45-18 Primacy 3 on my 2012 Mondeo Titanium X I got approximately 40K out of the fronts, but I am ultra easy on tyres. The fact you seem to be getting such a low mileage is a bit concerning.. So it's not just the fact you have 18" wheels

Are they wearing flat and even? or taking a shoulder off first? What kind of driving do you do? Urban/Motorway as that's a big influence

Stop/start is the wear killer, as braking is the worst thing for wear.

If you look on the door shut where the Ford sticker is it will give you the 16" and 17" sizes that you could run.

I'd try looking at other things too. I drop about 5% out of the front pressures, as I found the car was taking a little bit too much out of the centre of the tyres. Alignment and or suspension wear could be an issue.

But in the 85K I've owned the car, I've used 4 Primacy 3's and a pair of Winter's. Hence that's about 30k average a pair.

It's a bit of a mixture (long motorway runs quite often but work commute is 18 miles each way through country lanes/A roads and B roads with lots of roundabouts) so maybe the work commute is doing it - still think less than 10K out of a set of tyres is ridiculously low! I'll just have to see how I get on I suppose.

Found some tyre calculator things that seem to indicate I could go to something like a 225/55/17 or 215/60/16 but will see how this latest set of tyres go first.

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I have to agree

It's really going to come down to what's available. The 185/60-13 was an XR2 size, and the 205/60-13 was a Capri size, so they are both common Ford fitments.

As BOF said, they tend to be used as track day tyres. So there are quite a few small 13" wide tyres that aren't really a road tyre

Thank you for the reply.

I know old fords are used a lot for race and rally these days but it surely can't be exclusive to track use.

Can you suggest any suitable options/dimensions for tyres that you think would be suitable for the setup i have mentioned?

Anything else you think I should be aware of or need to consider?

Thanks for your time

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I have to agree

It's really going to come down to what's available. The 185/60-13 was an XR2 size, and the 205/60-13 was a Capri size, so they are both common Ford fitments.

As BOF said, they tend to be used as track day tyres. So there are quite a few small 13" wide tyres that aren't really a road tyre

Jamie

Just seen a response to a post of yours further down the thread mentioning Tyre calculators

There used to be printed (shows how long ago) versions of the Tyre technical data books that gave suitable rims for tyres sizes, rolling circumferences & other such data. This then for some time went to a web based source for the truck tyres but I've not seen anything for car tyres for a very long time.

Is there (are there any plans to) any source of either / both sets of data in downloadable PDF format anywhere that you are allowed to give a link to please?

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Thank you for the reply.

I know old fords are used a lot for race and rally these days but it surely can't be exclusive to track use.

Can you suggest any suitable options/dimensions for tyres that you think would be suitable for the setup i have mentioned?

Anything else you think I should be aware of or need to consider?

Thanks for your time

What I'll do guys is scan the pages from our 1980's and 1990's technical books and that will give you all the data you need, but sadly won't be until the start of next week now..

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