Parking ticket

[JayG90]

Not sure if you guys can help. I've had a parking ticket though the post today from a company called Cp Plus from Moto Services Cardiff. As far as I'm aware they can't enforce a civil ticket but anything I've tried to read to recap is old news and things may of changed. 

The entering the services photo is pure lights and can't even see my car properly but can see us leaving. 

They have included a photo of their parking notice signs which are NOT the same as on the services. 

As far as I'm aware they can't enforce it unless a contract as been signed which I haven't of course signed. Then they'll need to prove I've lost that place money. It was at midnight with no one even around and left early hours in the morning 5am to be exact. 

Any advise would be great. 

Thanks 

[MarksST]

Don't have to sign anything, by entering the carpark you've basically entered into a contract.

many will say to ignore any letters and that they can't do anything about it, before you decide if to pay or not Google "parking eye vs beavis" 

[alexp999]

You were on private land, they'll need to take you to civil court to enforce the ticket.

Their letters will normally make it sound like you have broken the law, which you haven't as this is a civil dispute.

If you over stayed or didn't pay, the simplest option is just to offer to pay the ticket price difference.

You can find loads of info on the web about fighting private parking tickets.

[JayG90]

Contacted the company without providing numbers or names - had phone put down twice, accused of wanting an argument. 

Contacted the actual services and was fed lies. Both companies werent cooperative so we'll leave it at that. I've tried to speak to them. I've read a lot more now as I wasn't sure if law changed. They've provided slight false information on the back also. So it's a case of ignore and don't return, not like I will anyway as it was a one off and is 4 hours away. 

Thanks :) 

[jeebowhite]

I would contact motor services and complain. Make a strong case and affirm this was all an accident and come up with some reasons. Most companies will override their parking idiots if you have a good reason, I would also complain that there parking idiots are also representing the company and display appalling customer service, have been aggressive towards you and you feel as they are employed by the services, they are representing them poorly and you wish to complain specifically to head office.

I suspect a few crocodile tears and hurt feelings in a letter could see the back of this

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[Stoney871]

If there are signs stating a maximum parking period that you exceed then you are tied.

By parking on their land you are accepting the terms of a private contract.

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[tazzman600]

Every service station I've stopped at has had clear signs stating the 1st 2 hours parking free. I've stopped at many different companies services and they've all had the notices. Personally I can't see your gripe. After all you was on there for Five hours. What did you expect? A free 3 hours on top of the standard 2?

[Stoney871]

Unfortunately as it's private land they can set any reasonable conditions they choose.

Until recently private parking control companies could only send PCN's that were payable by the person driving the vehicle when the overstay occurred and all you would have to say was that it was someone else and then it would go no further because they had no powers to confirm this.

Now they have access to DVLA and can invoice the registered keeper.

http://pcnwp.blend-dns.co.uk/private-land-enforcement/

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[JayG90]

8 hours ago, tazzman600 said:

Every service station I've stopped at has had clear signs stating the 1st 2 hours parking free. I've stopped at many different companies services and they've all had the notices. Personally I can't see your gripe. After all you was on there for Five hours. What did you expect? A free 3 hours on top of the standard 2?

Because at £12 they must be mad. The place was pretty much closed and no one empty. End of the day Moto has not lost any money because of myself. 

You also need to remember these private forms try and enforce illegal actions to scare people. That'd why I wanted to double check. As it stands I won't be paying for it, I have tried to Communicate with them to have the phone put down on me.

For a contract to be agreed it needs to have a signature on it. But there are many loop holes but wanted to double check considering after all it is a car forum. 

[alexp999]

Contracts can be verbal. They don't have to have a signature.

 

The only thing that can't be considered acceptance is silence. I.e. if you write to someone and say if I don't hear from you then you agree.

[Stoney871]

A contract does not need to be signed.

By parking on that area you have entered into an implied contract and by overstaying have breached this contract.

Ignoring the PCN is not an option, refusing to pay will only result in a knock on the door by someone who will add their costs potentially doubling the amount.

You need to follow the correct appeals process-

http://penaltychargenotice.co.uk/private-land-enforcement/how-to-appeal-a-private-parking-ticket/

Tbh I think even though the company involved has been unhelpful, this does not absolve you of your liability.

You parked there over the posted limit and are therefore in the wrong.

Sorry if this isn't what you want to read but don't bury your head or things will get out of hand very quickly.

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[Stoney871]

http://www.theaa.com/public_affairs/reports/parking-tickets-private-land.html

Parking on private land with restrictions posted is classed as an Implied Contract.

A signed contract is classed as an Explicit Contract.

http://www.businessdictionary.com/definition/implied-contract.html

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[stef123]

Time to move to Scotland, the only parking ticket enforceable is from the police or council lol. 

[JayG90]

Been looking into this further. They aren't enforceable like a council or police penalty notice. They have no regulator, and only make their own regulations which means it's of course a civil matter. They can only take me to a small claims court which is highly unlikely as most cases loose. 

Weather I am in the wrong or not, they have refused to communicate with me, they have failed to provide me any terms of conditions (a sign with some number to ring and a price isn't exactly a term and conditions now) 

They can send bailiffs however they'll also be unable to do anything due to needing a warrant (law has changed I'm aware) however their access will be revoked. Im more than willing to pay the charge but not until I see some term of conditions and actual commication with this company considering I am not lawfully obliged to pay the charge. 

(waits for the shouting at now)  

[Russ]

I say as your adamant your in the right then don't pay it but don't whine 'if and when' your summoned to the courts and forced to pay the fine AND court costs. 

[Russ]

On 27 April 2016 at 11:33 PM, stef123 said:

Time to move to Scotland, the only parking ticket enforceable is from the police or council lol. 

Your talking about proper parking tickets as given out for overstaying in a parking bay in the streets. Try coming down to Livingston shopping centre and parking either on the boulevard or the Asda car park and either not paying or overstaying the period you have paid for. Well signed explaining the outcome and tickets handed out by a private company backed up with photographic/cctv evidence!

scottish regulations :- https://www.citizensadvice.org.uk/scotland/consumer/transport/driving-and-parking/parking-tickets-s/parking-tickets-on-private-land-s/

[stef123]

4 hours ago, Russ said:

Your talking about proper parking tickets as given out for overstaying in a parking bay in the streets. Try coming down to Livingston shopping centre and parking either on the boulevard or the Asda car park and either not paying or overstaying the period you have paid for. Well signed explaining the outcome and tickets handed out by a private company backed up with photographic/cctv evidence!

scottish regulations :- https://www.citizensadvice.org.uk/scotland/consumer/transport/driving-and-parking/parking-tickets-s/parking-tickets-on-private-land-s/

They can try taking me to court for it, good luck to them lol. Not worth them even trying and as millions of people find out each year in Scotland - what are they gonna do about it lol. Legally unenforceable I'd say. 

 

 

[Russ]

41 minutes ago, stef123 said:

They can try taking me to court for it, good luck to them lol. Not worth them even trying and as millions of people find out each year in Scotland - what are they gonna do about it lol. Legally unenforceable I'd say. 

 

 

There you go JayG90 Stef123 says legally unenforceable.....I'm sure he'll offer to pay your costs 'if' he's wrong ;) lol 

mind you that 'might' only be his opinion and he 'might' only just be wrong. ;)

Note: I've edited my post to add Stef that my son was parked in the Asda car park a few years back and got a surcharge notice which I might add he 'was' forced to pay! I do so wish I'd known it was 'legally unenforceable' at the time!

[stef123]

I know of loads of people who use these private car parks and refuse to put a ticket on. One of which gets a ticket every Monday while the driver nurses a headache at home... Haha. Van pulls up every Monday, tickets it and drives off. She must have about 100 tickets and threatening letters now lol. 

Just like when my Mrs used to get hassle from creditors years ago, little did they know she was studying scots law, and used to put them right quite often lol.

 

 

[JayG90]

 

PHow are you meant to appeal something when their website for appeals do not work. You've rang over 30 times to be spoken to rudely and asked how to appeal. As said I have no problem paying it, providing I see their terms of conditions, which I've still failed to see. 

I've rang the service station. To once again be spoken to rudely and having the phone put down on me and not once did I raise my voice or cause any form of an argument. 

I'll sit back and wait, and see what happens. 

As for asda carparks most are owned by council. Around my area anyway as I was done in Southport which was a genuine mistake, though I won that due to the warden issuing the fine before the allocated time (10 mins) I was only there 5 mins as I only nipped the toilet. But there we go that's a different story. 

Simple fact of the matter I have no problem paying for parking at pay and display, providing they aren't a con else I won't Park there simple. I'm not someone to go out looking for an argument as this topic may make me out to be. But I'm someone for standing for my rights and won't pay out unless I have too. 

[Ianb]

I'd say you need to make very clear and concise records of what you've done and when you did it, make sure you get copies of your phone bill - which I suspect will be able to corroborate your story of many phone calls (perhaps 30 was an exaggeration)... 

The big problem now is that I'd assume you have no real evidence to say they were unhelpful. I'd try emailing if you can, that way they have to write to you, it gives you time to think of your reply rather than if they say something on the phone that catches you on the spot. I've learned this the hard way in my business, I've had many people say over the phone, "yeh sure, that's no problem, we can do that"... then push comes to shove and it's all undocumented words. I now require emails of all things these days, however inconvenient.

For the record, I'm not saying you should ignore it, or fight it, or pay it, I'm just giving you some things to think about.

 

...also what was happening in an empty service station carpark at midnight?!?! 

[JayG90]

Haha. I had been awake since 5am, driven at least 350-400 miles that day, I was tired and was not willing to drive anymore. I racked a lot of miles that weekend, and to think of it now my other half isn't even friends with the person we went to see. Waste of time actually going down in my eyes but there we go. 

I've not been in contact with them since and heard nothing from them yet. However I found out the person I've been calling I'd a third party company taking calls on behalf of CP Plus. Weather this is true or a defensive way to stopping any calls I do not know. 

As for sending emails. I have actually tried to contact them via email to which they've refused to provide me an email address and said 'go to the address on the back of the notice' okay no problem. The Web page does not load due go something about DNS (if your unsure what that means it basically means the website no longer exists basically no longer the domain is diverted to the server effectively no longer owning the domain) this has all be screenshoted as evidence. I can request a call record from o2 not a problem stating and also my landline provider. 

[Ianb]

Buy the website!!!