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GazP
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My wife has a 2007 Focus 1.8 petrol, and it recently started running rough, switching to limp home mode, showing engine system failure on the dash, and cutting out without warning. We had a local Ford dealer carry out a diagnostic as we had previously been stranded and had to be recovered by the AA. Codes thrown up were P0607, P2110, and P2107. The ford dealer said the throttle body was faulty so we had that replaced, and they also did a PCM update at the same time. we went to collect the car and it immediately wouldn't start, then chugged into life, and came up with same faults that we put it in for. They got a mechanic to take another look and he said it was probably due to a cold start??? We tried it again and it fired up, so we made our way home. We were almost home, only about a 6 mile journey, when it went bad again. We managed to get home and contacted the dealer, who is due to send a guy out to us tomorrow.

Are we looking at an expensive PCM replacement here, as when we researched this problem online it pointed to that? We've just spent a small fortune on repair/diagnostic so need to know if cost is going to be more than the car is worth? Not had a problem like this before but it has scared my wife so much she doesn't want to drive it any more, and has put her off Fords, which she has driven for over 20 years!

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Hi Gary think the best thing you can do is go to a breakers and get another PCM from a focus the same as yours or look on eBay, my son has a 1.8 Zetec on a 08 plate he had some troubles as you describe, ford are useless they will tell you you have to replace this and that and before you know you have a £500 bill.

we got another PCM from a dismanteler in Peterborough plugged it straight on and the car has been good as gold since, I cleared the trouble codes that were there didn't think it would just plug and play but didn't need re program or any thing like that although we did have Mr diagnostic come over and give it the once over and all was good, the new PCM was £30 posted.

 

Paul

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Yea that or loose crank sensor.

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1 hour ago, GazP said:

My wife has a 2007 Focus 1.8 petrol, and it recently started running rough, switching to limp home mode, showing engine system failure on the dash, and cutting out without warning. We had a local Ford dealer carry out a diagnostic as we had previously been stranded and had to be recovered by the AA. Codes thrown up were P0607, P2110, and P2107. The ford dealer said the throttle body was faulty so we had that replaced, and they also did a PCM update at the same time. we went to collect the car and it immediately wouldn't start, then chugged into life, and came up with same faults that we put it in for. They got a mechanic to take another look and he said it was probably due to a cold start??? We tried it again and it fired up, so we made our way home. We were almost home, only about a 6 mile journey, when it went bad again. We managed to get home and contacted the dealer, who is due to send a guy out to us tomorrow.

Are we looking at an expensive PCM replacement here, as when we researched this problem online it pointed to that? We've just spent a small fortune on repair/diagnostic so need to know if cost is going to be more than the car is worth? Not had a problem like this before but it has scared my wife so much she doesn't want to drive it any more, and has put her off Fords, which she has driven for over 20 years!

i dont know if its the same as i had.but i had problems with the connectors in the passenger foot well behind the trim.it was the lower one didnt seem to be holding together properly. i ended up taking out the wires needed and pluging them into each other and taping them up.all was ok after this .i was having the alarm for enging failure going of going into limp mod etc all ok know

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Thanks for the replies guys.

Paul, already gone way past the £500 mark and all for nothing! Thought about a module from a breakers but heard they have to be programmed to the car's vin, immobiliser, etc?

James, wouldn't a faulty crank sensor throw a code for that item; the only codes we got were for a pcm and throttle position?

John, we've looked where you said on the car and couldn't find any wires there, maybe we were looking in the wrong place.

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The connectors in the passenger footwell are hidden by the trim panel that starts midway along the door sill, and goes up towards the glove box. Pull off the rubber door seal a bit, and it should just unclip. Bit fiddly, try to feel where the clips are, I seem to remember about 2 along the sill, and 2 up towards the hinge. These connectors carry a lot of important cables, including the CAN bus that links all the main modules together. Can be prone to corrosion.

But I just Googled ford focus P2110, it went to:

http://www.ecutesting.com/ford/focus_mondeo_c-max_ecu_fault.html

which suggests an ECU (aka PCM) problem.

For P2107, I got this (*Start*):

P2107 Ford Description

The Electronic Throttle Control (ETC) control area of the Powertrain Control Module (PCM) failed test. Fault code could the result of incorrect Throttle Position (TP) command of the Throttle Actuator Control Module (TACM).

(*end*).

Does seem to point to a PCM problem. What diagnostic system was used to find these codes? P0607 is generic. but P2107 & P2110 look Ford specific, indicating that a full Ford diagnostic check was carried out.. I ask this because other modules can have error codes that do not show up on a generic (OBD2) scan. And wiring or module faults on the CAN bus tend to generate all sorts of error codes (DTCs), in lots of different modules. But if the 3 fault codes listed are the ONLY codes, then it does point to PCM, rather than wiring, connectors or another module.

Most of the Immobiliser logic is in the Instrument Cluster, but almost certainly the PCM will need programming for the car. I would suggest investigating PCM repair options, the "ecutesting.com" site seems to offer this. But note that I have not come across this site before, so I make no recommendation other than to investigate!

PS: You should NOT be put off Ford by this, they are definitely not the worst. All current cars are full of complex electronics, and it is only going to become more so. There is a lot of information and help for Fords that may not be available for other makes. This Forum for one :smile:

Peter.

 

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Peter, the codes came up on our local garages diagnostic gear, the AA mobile engineer, and at the Ford dealer. It was just those 3 codes.

We also looked at the ecutesting.com website, and their description of the fault is exactly what our car is doing. If this is a design fault with the pcm, we're pretty angry that we've just "wasted" a lot of money on something else.

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I am an electronics engineer, and normally I am suspicious when other people automatically blame some complex electronic module. I know that electronic circuits are inherently very reliable, and are designed to high standards. But I am equally well aware that complex systems always have weak points (stuff I have designed is no exception, unfortunately!), and in this case weight of evidence seems to be against the PCM.

I have not looked at this in any depth, literally a couple of minutes, but at the moment it does look like a >90% chance of a PCM fault. So the least cost & pain route to a replacement may be the best way forward.

A good garage or auto-electrician may be the least pain route, but not the least cost.

A 2nd hand unit could be set up, I believe, by a system such as Forscan with an ELM327 adapter (free, public domain software, adapter from £10 upwards). There is lots of info about this on this forum, or on the Forscan website. I have used this system for diagnostics & code resetting, but not for major re-programming myself. It worked very well.

A repaired unit should retain all programmed information & be covered by some sort of warranty. I have not tested this route, and it involves postal delays, but could be the best.

Best I can offer. Others on this site may have more knowledge.

PS: If possible, have a good look at the PCM and its connectors. There may be evidence of corrosion or damage. On my car it lurks in the air intake system, just in front of the passenger side front wheel. There is an access hatch, I can not recall if it is on the wheel trim side, or on the headlight side, but is is down there somewhere.

Peter.

 

 

 

 

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Thanks for the advice Peter.

We'll take another look at the car tomorrow when it's daylight.

It's the cost that's difficult for us, as I'm unemployed and partially disabled, so I hope you can understand our frustration at this. Because of my disability I am unable to work on the car myself.

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crank sensor fault wont normaly throw a code, checking all connectors from ic to bcm, and to pcm needs checking first, theres 3 connectors in particular that needs looking at. 2 behind the sound deadening in passengers footwell, and the connector on the engine bay fuse box.

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Thanks Ian, will take a look in the morning.

Dodgy wiring is the worst kind of fault to find. Had a Cadillac years ago that had an ABS light come on. Turned out the main connector for the entire system was under the car and exposed to all the road dirt, and had literally disintegrated!

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If you can afford the time, and are computer literate enough to make some sense of the (mostly very good) information on the Forscan website, then I recommend the diy approach. Get your own diagnostic & maintenance system, look at the pcm for any obvious, repairable faults, get a cheap 2nd hand unit, try fitting it. You won't lose much except time, and you will gain experience.

What Ian has just said also makes a lot of sense, the connectors behind the sound deadening  are the two we were talking about earlier, and the one in the main fuse box is also critical.

Interestingly (to me, anyway), Forscan is primarily Russian. Out in the wilds of Siberia, or many other places over there, if something goes wrong, it may be a long way to a Ford dealer (aka Fraud Stealer), and the diy approach may be a life saver. So they take it seriously. But then again it may all be a Putin trick to install viruses in Western equipment and undermine us to get revenge for losing the cold war:ohmy:. Take your pick as to which you believe!

Peter

 

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Thanks comrade, will take a look at Forscanski!!!

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Had a look at electrical connections this morning, and they visually look ok. Tried starting the car and after the 3rd attempt it struggled into life, albeit running very badly, misfiring. Dash warnings were limp home mode, engine systems fault, end yellow engine light on. Connected a generic code reader and P2110 came up; throttle position fail. As it has just had a brand new one fitted I doubt this is the cause, although I realise that even new components can fail!

Dealer just phoned and I explained what we'd done, and seemed surprised when I mentioned PCM fail history online. Just have to see what they find...

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Engine Systems warning lamp (Circle with ! inside it on my car) is an interesting one. That is often linked to inter-module communications errors (eg CAN bus errors) that may not show up on a generic scanner. Need to double check this before ripping out the PCM, though the PCM is one end of the main CAN bus. The IC (instrument cluster) is the other end.

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19 hours ago, GazP said:

Thanks for the replies guys.

Paul, already gone way past the £500 mark and all for nothing! Thought about a module from a breakers but heard they have to be programmed to the car's vin, immobiliser, etc?

James, wouldn't a faulty crank sensor throw a code for that item; the only codes we got were for a pcm and throttle position?

John, we've looked where you said on the car and couldn't find any wires there, maybe we were looking in the wrong place.

on mine ive got 2 plug connectors behind the left side panel

in the pic you can see mine ive yet to sort out

20160606_165317.jpg

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1 of those connectors are not the 2 im refering to.

what showing is c111 and c112, 

the higher one is one to look at(c111)

c113 is higher up again and to the right slightly

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25 minutes ago, iantt said:

1 of those connectors are not the 2 im refering to.

what showing is c111 and c112, 

the higher one is one to look at(c111)

c113 is higher up again and to the right slightly

the lower one is the one that gave me enging failure warning and other codes

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The HS CAN bus (that goes from IC to PCM via the other underbonnet modules) is on pins 17 & 18 of C113, and also pins 11 & 12 of C112.

The MS CAN bus (that goes from IC to GEM (in the passenger fuse box), via the body electronic modules) is on pins 19 & 20 of C112.

Failure on these buses, but especially the HS CAN bus, will cause all sorts of errors. That may be why these connectors are so vital, though many other signals & power feeds pass through them.

 

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As it stands, car is still at Ford dealer.

Having had the PCM tested, they found an internal fault, caused by a spike from a faulty throttle body. New PCM required and should fix the problem. The good news is that our car has the "cheaper" PCM, so not a £1000+ hit! Dealer has ordered new part and we should get the car back on Friday. Fingers crossed this cures the problem!!!

Apparently if we had just replaced just the PCM and not the throttle body, we could have blown the new PCM straight away. As we have already changed the throttle body it should be ok.

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Hmm, maybe. But then they would say that would'nt they?

Or am I just being a grumpy old sceptic again?:wacko:

Still the main thing is to get the car working, & argue about the cost maybe after.

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Dealer used an electronics engineer that they had used in the past. He had come across this problem before, so this info comes from him.

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don't suppose the wife's very appy, so get it done then she's appy that means your appy (u cant put a price on that) :wink:              Glad ur getting it sorted m8

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1 hour ago, ippy said:

don't suppose the wife's very appy, so get it done then she's appy that means your appy (u cant put a price on that) :wink:              Glad ur getting it sorted m8

no but fords will lol

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23 hours ago, mrmetallica said:

no but fords will lol

yeah but you aint gotta live with them :biggrin:

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