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Injector seals


Thatguycraig
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found the source of my "chugging" noise the other day - its actually more of a "puff puff puff" noise, and having no knowledge of the engine, finally found out its probs the injector seal? 

Anyone have any guides on replacing these, how to dismantle to access etc??? 

Theres a vid on youtube, and the guy reckons you need an "Injector seal removal" tool - but i cannot seem to locate on on eBay etc. 

 

Ideas appreciated 

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  • 2 weeks later...

didnt get anyone replying to this - strange, but thought id share my experience

after i decided to change the oil and filter, once i took of the engine cover i noticed the air escaping from the injectors (as said above) this is the place, for those who dont know, as i didnt.... you'd expect to see spark plugs on a petrol engine. (at leasst thats where they have been on the other cars ive had!!) they are like 4 valve looking things all connected by a copper-like pipe. anyway

I was right. the seal on number 4 had gone. managed to kick off with the company i got it from and got that, plus number 3 seal replaced for free. no more noise. 

 

happy as a pig in s*** , as they say 

 

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You don't mention what engine but is it the 1.4 TDCI by any chance? 

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On 6/21/2016 at 7:31 PM, stef123 said:

You don't mention what engine but is it the 1.4 TDCI by any chance? 

1.6 tdci 

 

you got a similar problem?

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I'd get that to a garage as soon as you can otherwise you're likely to run into a very bad situation of a diesel engine runaway.

I had a 1.6 TDCI MK2.5 Focus and I had mine run away as a result of this very well known problem.

If you do end up in this situation, you need to stall the engine as quickly as possible. Feet hard on the brakes, hand brake on tight, and throw it in 4th or 5th gear. You might damage the clutch, but you'll save the engine. DO NOT restart it again if this happens either.

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On 6/27/2016 at 4:39 PM, DJ_Andy_M said:

I'd get that to a garage as soon as you can otherwise you're likely to run into a very bad situation of a diesel engine runaway.

I had a 1.6 TDCI MK2.5 Focus and I had mine run away as a result of this very well known problem.

If you do end up in this situation, you need to stall the engine as quickly as possible. Feet hard on the brakes, hand brake on tight, and throw it in 4th or 5th gear. You might damage the clutch, but you'll save the engine. DO NOT restart it again if this happens either.

run away? is that where you have no control over the engine? 

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This usually only happens when a very worn diesel engine starts to burn it's own engine oil. I don't think your injector problem is related to that scenario in any way.

One way to stop an engine that's running away is to discharge a CO2 or other inert gas fire extinguisher into the intake.

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Diesel run-away can be caused by excess engine oil getting into the cylinders, and burning, or by faulty injector(s), or, extremely rarely, by electrical/electronic problems. All the electrical systems that could cause run-away are rigorously designed to be fail-safe, I have never heard of such problems in a Ford.

It is difficult to see why the external seal around the injector should make it leak fuel into the cylinder, unless the injector has been damaged during the re-seal operation.

The pipes to the injectors, despite appearances, are very high strength, high integrity steel pipes, that carry fuel at extremely high pressure (15,000 PSI to 25,000 PSI, and yes that is thousands of PSI).

If in any doubt as to the competence or honesty of the garage that repaired the seal, then it might be worth having a diesel specialist check out the injectors. They can do some tests electronically without removing the injectors, that should not be too expensive.

But I would say if the car is running smoothly, especially at low revs (so it pulls ok at idle speed), then the injectors are ok.

But do check the oil level (must not be too high or too low) & look for signs of sticky gunge around the filler cap or dipstick. Also look for any signs of fuel leakage from either end of the injector fuel pipes. (Clean them, run the car a bit, then, with the engine off, re-clean with a clean tissue, to see if diesel is getting out.)

Peter.

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This always confuses me on the 1.6 HDi, how does the leaking injector seal directly put carbon into the oil?  Is it due to the location of the injector through the cam cover on them?  If so then I guess it could equally suck oil into the cylinder on the downstroke...but it'd have to be a lot to get it running away!!  Runaways are usually caused by turbo failure now, dumping oil straight into the intake lol.  Don't usually get the chance to stall it either as it happens so quickly.

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3 hours ago, TomsFocus said:

This always confuses me on the 1.6 HDi

I have not seen the 1.6TDCI engine. Looking at pictures & Haynes (laugh.png), it seems that the injector to CH seal is not inside the cam cover (or CH cover), but is out in the open, though in a recess. I guess that is why Craig could hear the escaping gas.

It is hard to think of a good reason to link carbon in the oil with injector seal leaks. So it confuses me too, Tom!unsure.png

I have a pet theory for carbon build up in the DV6 / HDi, which is almost certainly wrong I expect, but an interesting idea, I think. (Though I am veering badly off topic here, really!)

I suspect the aluminium cylinder casting at the top is a little too thin, and the cylinder (aluminium & iron(?) liner) is expanding elastically under the huge combustion pressure. It will not be much, probably under 0.1%. But the piston rings are being forced down hard on their grooves, and they may be a bit gunged up with carbon (vicious circle here), so will not be able to expand to fill the gap. This will allow increased mixing of oil and combustion gasses, leading to burnt oil & carbon in the oil.

Whether the elastic expansion idea is right or not, by far the most likely way to get burnt & carbonised oil is surely via the pistons & rings?

As to the Turbo dumping oil, probably followed by a shower of bits of metal, into the engine. That sounds like an exciting (ohmy.png?), quick & very expensive way to demolish an engine. That's a bit of excitement that I would like to miss out on, if at all possible!

I hope all this doom & gloom talk of disaster is not alarming Craig (Thatguycraig) too much! These are still quite good engines, in good cars, I think. Just need a bit of care & regular oil changes. Then they can last way up in to the 100,000 to 200,000 mile range.smile.png

Peter.

 

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On 6/29/2016 at 3:55 PM, Tdci-Peter said:

I have not seen the 1.6TDCI engine. Looking at pictures & Haynes (laugh.png), it seems that the injector to CH seal is not inside the cam cover (or CH cover), but is out in the open, though in a recess. I guess that is why Craig could hear the escaping gas.

It is hard to think of a good reason to link carbon in the oil with injector seal leaks. So it confuses me too, Tom!unsure.png

I have a pet theory for carbon build up in the DV6 / HDi, which is almost certainly wrong I expect, but an interesting idea, I think. (Though I am veering badly off topic here, really!)

I suspect the aluminium cylinder casting at the top is a little too thin, and the cylinder (aluminium & iron(?) liner) is expanding elastically under the huge combustion pressure. It will not be much, probably under 0.1%. But the piston rings are being forced down hard on their grooves, and they may be a bit gunged up with carbon (vicious circle here), so will not be able to expand to fill the gap. This will allow increased mixing of oil and combustion gasses, leading to burnt oil & carbon in the oil.

Whether the elastic expansion idea is right or not, by far the most likely way to get burnt & carbonised oil is surely via the pistons & rings?

As to the Turbo dumping oil, probably followed by a shower of bits of metal, into the engine. That sounds like an exciting (ohmy.png?), quick & very expensive way to demolish an engine. That's a bit of excitement that I would like to miss out on, if at all possible!

I hope all this doom & gloom talk of disaster is not alarming Craig (Thatguycraig) too much! These are still quite good engines, in good cars, I think. Just need a bit of care & regular oil changes. Then they can last way up in to the 100,000 to 200,000 mile range.smile.png

Peter.

 

not at all! i hope its not got that far. Car seems fine now its been fixed. Didnt notice much performance difference, just an annoying sound! 

Im keeping my eyes on it anyway :) 

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