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Code 0167 Lost comms with immobilizer module


mondeo161
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Hi all. Its been a while since I posted on here. I have a problem with my son's 2010Focus Titanium 1.6 TDCi. It is a keyless start and entry.

The car developed a problem where it posted the message "Key Not Detected". I got Green flag to look and they could not find the fault. Ford suggested it might be the key and gave me the number of a key specialist in Edinburgh who promptly came out and diagnosed part of the problem being the key. (New key purchased at a cost of £175. He advised that the started or the Alternator was drawing power. I got home from Inverness today and the car is not detecting the NEW key.

Andrew took a photo of the fault on the diagnostic when the key guy was working on the cat and the code is U0167. Immobilizer fault.

Has anyone had this issue before? Just looking for alternatives before I drag its !Removed! down to ford.

Any help would be appreciated.

Thanks

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On 6/27/2016 at 2:35 PM, mondeo161 said:

the code is U0167. Immobilizer fault.

Hi,

Sounds a bit like a wiring fault.

The actual DTC description is:

• U0167 LOST COMMUNICATION WITH VEHICLE IMMOBILIZER CONTROL MODULE

Many U codes imply a CAN bus problem. That is a digital bus that carries a lot of information between different modules on the car.

A quick Google found the attached pdf file. It describes various possible locations for this fault. Unless you want to dismantle quite a lot of the car to find the fault location, it sound like a garage or auto-electrician job, but the pdf might give them a clue where to start. (NOTE: The pdf is actually for Mondeo & S-Max/Galaxy, so the photos will be wrong, but the basic problem may be the same for your Focus).

If you are technically minded, I, or others here, can give advice on getting and using diagnostic tools that might pin the fault down a bit. But there are technical & jargon barriers to overcome!

Peter.

https://www.fordownersclub.com/applications/core/interface/file/attachment.php?id=40235

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Thank you for the quick reply Peter.

I have asked a Ford Tech bloke to come out with his Diagnostic kit. Waiting for a reply from him."was given his number by a local "Auto Electrical Shop"

I got the Key guy back out today and he explained the battery power is low "12V" and that is why the key is not recognised on this particular model. he reckons t needs about 12.8 volts to power the system properly.

I attached my jump leads and it recognises they key and starts no problem.

The dash lights however start flashing all over the place when the leads are removed as the car is running.

I am fairly technical minded so any help would be appreciated.

Thanks

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How much and where would I get the diag equipment?

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6 hours ago, mondeo161 said:

How much and where would I get the diag equipment?

A couple of alternatives:

1) Get a generic OBD2 scanner. From about £10.00. I got a U480 off eBay, worked fine. Very easy to use, self contained, but limited capabilities. (will only read generic engine related faults).

2) Get a powerful Ford specific system. Cost £15.00 for the interface. Needs a computer of some sort. (COM port, USB, bluetooth or WiFi interfaces available). Not as simple as the self contained OBD2 scanner.

You will find a lot about ELM327 & Forscan on this site, which together provide a very comprehensive diagnosis & maintenance tool.

Note: Simply reading the codes can do no harm, and does not change anything. Just do not reset the codes (and you would have to ask the scanner to do this) if you are going to take the car to a garage.

For the ELM327, try:
http://www.spanglefish.com/TunnelratElectronics/index.asp?pageid=516992

you will also need a program called Forscan, its free and you can get it from

http://forscan.org/download.html

Regarding your starting problem, I am wondering if we missed the obvious?

Start & run off a jump battery is ok, then no start and faults on run with your battery. This suggests a dead battery. (If you connected the jump leads to your battery terminals, then that checks out the battery wires). Though check your battery connections for clean, tight connection first.

Have you got a DVM (multimeter)? If so, test the battery something like this:

Start engine. After recovering from starting (normally under 1 minute), voltage should rise to at least 13v at idle, and with the engine at about 1200rpm, charge voltage should stabilise at 14.0 to 14.6v. This range should be maintained with headlights on or off.

Then turn engine off, monitor battery voltage (at the terminals, direct on the lead battery post itself if possible), turn ignition & headlights on (do not start engine), see how quickly battery drops. It should drop to about 12v quite quickly, then hold, and not go below about 11.5v even after a few minutes.

If battery fades away quickly, it is duff. Also if charge voltage is too high, either it is duff, or there is a serious problem with the charging system.


Also, after being on charge (engine running), then engine stopped and all equipment turned off (no load), then the battery voltage should slowly drop to 12.4v to 12.8v.

I think the electrician expecting 12.8v from a battery on no load, is asking too much. But it should be well over 12v.

And it sounds like your battery is going over 14.6v when on charge, and upsetting things. Batteries usually fade away, but they can fail totally & without any warning. I had one do that once.

Peter.

 

 

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I will go through everything you have posted when I get home from work Peter.

I have a basic tool. (Pro Scan OBD/EOBD SCAN V580) But I will have to connect the Jump Leads to get the ignition to come on to position II as it would be with a normal key.

Thanks. I will let you know the outcome.

 

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Hi Peter.

Went through what you suggested.

Checked the battery power and it was reading 13.4V. The key was recognised and the ignition came on and the car started when the button was pressed.

Car at idle and at 1200 = 14.4V

Engine the switched off the voltage was 12.8V.

Engine off and lights on Voltage was still above 12.10V after 10 minutes.

Also after the engine had run for a minute or two the immobilizer light started flashing.

I am getting no fault codes with my scanner.

The code i mentioned earlier was found by the key guy using ford ETIS software.

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Here is a video of what is happening when the car is stopped/running.

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1 hour ago, mondeo161 said:

video of what is happening

Unfortunately, the video did not play on my system.

Was the battery test done with the jump battery connected?

If with your battery, it recognised the key this time, then the error happened later. Suggests intermittent fault.

Also the immobiliser LED usually flashes out a code, try googling "focus immobiliser flash code", or something.

I have just been told dinner is ready, & won't wait, so have to go now!

Peter.

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5 hours ago, mondeo161 said:

Also after the engine had run for a minute or two the immobilizer light started flashing.

The PATS (immobiliser) flash codes are usually 2 digit combinations, like 13 is: One flash - pause- 3 flashes - pause, and repeat.

Code 16 is CAN bus or communications error.

Your battery test results looked fine to me. If fault is intermittent, then a wiring or bad connection fault is most likely.

Forscan should give practically the same sort of diagnostic coverage as the Ford IDS system, on a 2010 Focus.

On a Mk2a Focus, the PATS transceiver is connected to the IC (instrument  cluster or dashboard).

On a Mk3 Focus, the PATS transceiver is connected to the BCM (Body Control Module, or Passenger Fusebox).

(2010 is close to changeover, do you know which it is?)

In both cases, the IC/BCM communicates with the Keyless vehicle module (KVM) via one of the CAN buses, probably MS-CAN. And this link seems to be where the problem is, if the U0167 error is to be believed. So if flash code 16 is seen, or more CAN bus related DTCs happen, this is the wiring area to check.

CAN bus problems can give many other symptoms, odd warning lights on the dash, dashes (---) in the milometer, and immobiliser problems are typical.

All I can think of at present.

Peter.

 

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If you look on my facebook page "John Finnon"! the vid is on there. I will check out the codes later today.

Thanks Peter.

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Hi Peter.

I am getting code 1:6 owith the PATS Flashing Light. Found this on Google :  (1 : 6 Faulty link between PATS and EEC v module)

How would I go about sorting this?

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1 hour ago, mondeo161 said:

I am getting code 1:6 owith the PATS Flashing Light

Hi.

Code 16 basically means CAN bus or communications error. Similar to the original DTC code U0167.

The EEC is another name for the PCM or engine computer. It communicates with the module that handle PATS (IC or BCM, depending on car version) over the vehicle's CAN buses. These are digital data highways that move all sorts of information all around the car. I suspect in your case, with the Keyless go module, the error could alternatively be between that and the PATS module.

The Forscan diagnostic system could help narrow it down, it should reveal which module(s) the error is stored in.

But I need to check the car version. 2010 should be a Mk2a, but could just be a Mk3. And they are very different.

If in doubt, see if the Passenger fuse box looks a bit like one of the pictures below. (A lot of fuses, relays & connectors are missing from the pics!)

But without good diagnostics, I think it is hunting for a needle in a haystack!

Peter.

PS: How is the battery holding up, and does the car still start if the battery voltage is good?

Mk2-BCM.JPG

Mk2a-BCM.JPG

Mk3-BCM.JPG

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The Fuse box is identical to the middle of the three and the car Starts no problem Now.

I cleaned the large earth from the battery negative connected to the body of the car as it had a bit of rust and there was paint between the earth and the body today.

After cleaning the car started and run fine. Then it suddenly would not even identify the key. I have two. It would do nothing. Not even a message on the display. So I disconnected the battery for about ten minutes, re-connected and all worked fine but that is when the PATS code was displayed.

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It really does sound more & more like an intermittent electrical bad contact.

From the BCM photo being the middle one, it is Mk2A, as expected. In that case the PCM, the IC, the KVM,  the HS-CAN  bus and possibly the MS-CAN bus, are all involved in the PATS key recognition process. That is a lot of connectors, wires & pcbs.

I do not think it is the PATS sensor, the error codes point to inter-module communication errors, but it is quite easy to get at, just fitted round the ignition key barrel, and I think there is a connector on it that can be disconnected & re-connected to see if it makes a difference.

----

 Where a CAN bus problem is suspected, you can try this simple resistance test:

There is no need to disconnect the battery. At least on my car the CAN bus went off about 30 sec after turning the ignition off. The PCM stays active for a while, I can hear it testing the EGR valve, and maybe doing other things, then it powers down and the bus goes dead.

Stick a couple of suitable probes (un-bent paper clips can work quite well) in the diagnostic connector pins 6-14, put a DMM across the Pair on voltage range, turn ignition on, note reading, turn ignition off, wait till voltage drops to zero (+/- 1 or 2 mV), switch to resistance range to check for 60 ohms.

If 60 ohms, try tapping and moving various suspects, eg the fascia around the IC, the connector by the front door sill, the connector in the engine bay fuse box, and maybe the PCM. Look for any deviations. (IC = Instrument Cluster)

If not 60 ohms, disconnect the engine bay fuse box big connector, see if reading goes up. If it does, then IC is the fault, if not then PCM may be the fault. As both the PCM and the IC contain 120 ohm resistors between the two CAN lines, it is quite easy to detect whether all joints are intact at least up to these resistors. If both ends are linked together, the two 120 ohm resistors in parallel make 60 ohms.

This will not test other modules on the bus, nor internal faults in IC or PCM. A Ford specific diagnostic system is needed really for this. It will tell you if there is a wiring problem, or some simple faults on the IC or PCM.

This test can be repeated for the MS-CAN bus, using pins 3 & 11 on the diagnostic connector, instead of 6 & 14. This bus goes from the IC to the BCM (aka GEM or Passenger fusebox).

Unfortunately, both buses go via the KVM, but I suspect the HS-CAN is used as this also goes to the PCM.

Have you investigated getting Forscan & ELM327? I am sure it would help pin the fault down a bit. If the only faults relate to KVM problems, then that module or its wiring is prime suspect. But that is just a guess at present.

Peter.

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Bought a ELM 327 this morning from the site link you posted. Will hopefully get tomorrow.

Had a look at the B Pillar and could only see this : Photo's are upside down.20160630_204630.jpg20160630_204657.jpg

 

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15 hours ago, mondeo161 said:

B Pillar and could only see this

I am not sure what those units are, they may be part of the collision detection system.

I believe the keyless antennas look like the 1st picture here (colour is just as an ID, not real). There should be  3 or 4 antenna, 2/3 in the cabin, one in the boot.

The KVM (electronic module) should look something like the 2nd pic, and is mounted in the boot, behind one of the side trim panels, near the back, I think. (Note: It may look rather similar to the park aid module, also in the boot. If some of the wires go down through the floor to the rear bumper, it is park aid.)

 

 

KVM2.jpg

KVM1.jpg

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Hi Peter. Got the ELM 327 "Modified) It has a small toggle switch with a "H" on one side. 

I just had a look on google and see there are 2 can systems. HS Can and MS Can so I assume that is the reason for the switch.

I will have a look at You Tube to get an idea of how to use the software.

Is there anything I should know before plugging in and connecting to my laptop?

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On 02/07/2016 at 10:34 AM, mondeo161 said:

Is there anything I should know before plugging in and connecting to my laptop?

I just ran the Forscan system (it did not need any lengthy installation process), connected it & it worked.

For a USB system there may be a USB driver that needs to be loaded, on the CD with the ELM.

The software will give you a message when it wants you to switch from HS-CAN to MS-CAN, or back.

Give it a go. Just read the screen before clicking ok. Reading info from the car does no harm. This system is powerful, and can alter the settings in ways that could do damage, but it will always warn you before doing anything like that. So do not be frightened of it, but do heed any warnings it gives you!

 

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That software is a great tool. Got this lot when plugged in. What I need now is to know where the Can Bus wiring connections are and what they look like.

Thanks for all your help Peter.

20160702_114357.jpg

20160702_114523.jpg

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20160702_114706.jpg

20160702_114722.jpg

20160702_114739.jpg

20160702_120015.jpg

20160702_120142.jpg

20160702_120237.jpg

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1 hour ago, mondeo161 said:

That software is a great tool.

That is exactly what I thought when I tried it. It just worked!

Unfortunately, then we come down to earth. Interpreting the codes down to a specific fault is still hard.

I would discount the PCM error P1260 entirely, it must be a result of the other errors. The PCM will not enable the car if it gets wrong or no information.

The U1900 code is sometimes called the "free one", it often happens as a result of the diagnostic process interfering with normal comms. But if it keeps coming back and in view of some uncertainty in the remaining codes, it stays in the frame.

The GEM error P0071 is interesting, but as the Ambient Temperature sensor is plugged directly into the GEM, it does not seem to link with the Keyless Module errors. May just be that no sensor is fitted. Or it could be an old error.

At what stage did the two RKE (= KVM ) errors B2AE5 & B112C transform into the one error B112C? I guess you re-ran the DTC scan.

So we have U1900 (CAN bus), U0167 (comms to RKE), PATS flash code 16 (Comms), and 3 rather unrelated errors from the RKE module. It is unlikely the door switch, ignition switch & steering lock are all defective.

Thus, as you suggest, the CAN bus connection from GEM to RKE/KVM has to be suspect no.1.

The MS-CAN bus from PJB (GEM) to KVM/RKE connections are:

C99 pins 16 & 32 (on PJB)

C49 pins 7 & 8 (this will be in the region of the Passenger front door, there is a CAN bus stub to the Door module from here.

Splices 85 & 86, near the Park AId module in the boot. There is a CAN bus stub to this module.

Splices 93 & 94, near the RKE/KVM in the boot. This is the stub that goes to the KVM.

C219 pins 14 & 15, on the KVM.

(Ford have a nasty way of hiding critical joints in the wiring loom, including the CAN buses, just a crimped or soldered joint wrapped in tape.)

(A CAN bus is one pair of wires (usually twisted), that goes from one main module to another main module, with various stubs (tee joints) to other modules along the way. The main modules have 120ohm terminating resistors in them, the other modules are just "bus stops" along the route. All bus systems (electronic, electric power or Double Decker), are transport systems with terminii and multiple stopping points along the way. The MS-CAN bus transports data between IC & GEM/BCM, with the KVM/RKE as a "bus stop").

As to just where these joints are, and pictures of them, that is a mystery to me, I am afraid.

I would start from the KVM, & identify the CAN bus pins (C219 view attached). I would use the resistance test I outlined on Thursday 30th June, to see if it was reliably connected to the rest of the bus. (But put the multimeter on C219 instead of the diagnostic connector. Also I now think (from other info) the MS-CAN bus is used, not HS-CAN.)

If it was (60 ohms ok), and remained so on several re-tests, I would suspect a fault in the KVM. If there was a resistance error (not 60 ohms), then I would locate the splice to the KVM & re-do it.

I would clear the DTCs (ensuring I had saved the Forscan log file in a known place first), then retest to see if the same, or any different DTCs appeared.

I do not think there is a dead easy way to find these faults. The diagnostics narrow it down a lot, but it is still a needle in a bale of hay, instead of a Haystack!. That is why garages often charge so much, and often replace units that are working fine.

Best I can say at the moment.

Peter.

C219.GIF

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This is the first time I have had to deal with these types of problems but your information is a great help and I will have a look tonight after work.

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Hi Peter. This the first chance I have had to look at the car. I took the inner door panel off to have a look at the dood switch mechanism as there is a sticking switch fault comming up for the front passenger door. I found water on the mirror electrical connection. Is it possible that this could be a contributing factor to the problem? Ie could it be affecting the electronics and giving out wrong signals or information?

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3 hours ago, mondeo161 said:

sticking switch fault comming up for the front passenger door. I found water on the mirror electrical connection

The MS CAN bus goes to the door modules. These are the electronic modules that include the window opening motors. Where was the water? If on one of these modules, it is possible some has got inside, and caused corrosion, that could affect the CAN bus, and so lead to the other errors. But it is a bit of a long shot.

Have a good look at the module, if possible look inside for visible water damage.

The module could probably be disconnected from the loom. It should give door related DTCs, but if it Was malfunctioning, other errors might clear. Bit unlikely, but easy & worth a try.

Peter.

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The water was actually in the electrical block that connects the loom to the Near Side door mirror. The mirror housing also has an indicator lamp on.

Regarding the Sticking door pull switch. Do you think that would that be the touch switch on the outside handle or the actuator inside the door?

I left the mirror electrical connector disconnected and dried the block out as best I could. Cleared all codes and did another scan. The amount of codes has gone down to those in the file attached. B2035-60 is the indicator fault due to it not being connected.

Also Since the I dried the block the pats light has not flashed any codes. Car seems to be starting, stopping and running well.

Instrumend Clusted U1900-60.png

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