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Engine Overheating or


fordnut25
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Hi, I have a ford focus 1.4 ( 75K miles, 13 yr old) , few days back the engine management light came on and car was not picking up speed. Called up the rescue who saw that there was no coolant and there was a leak noticed near thermostat.

Took it to garage, who changed the thermostat and fixed the leak. They said they did the gasket pressure test and it looked ok.

It is now fine on short runs, however take it on motorway and after about 10 miles with 70 mph, the temperature gauge goes to red. If I drop the speed to about 40-50 it come back to middle again. I stopped the car and took a look at coolant expansion tank and the coolant was squiriting into the tank for a good 10 mins after engine switch off.

The car works fine overall, but as such now limited to city driving and not for longer periods.

I have to also keep topping up the coolant, mostly doing it with water for now.

I will send it back to garage next week but anything I can do beforehand.

Thanks

 

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3 hours ago, fordnut25 said:

coolant was squiriting into the tank for a good 10 mins after engine switch off.

I am not quite sure what was happening there. Was gas venting from the coolant tank overflow (via the filler cap releif valve)? And was the tank almost empty at the time?

It does sound a bit like a head gasket leak. If the coolant had enough anti-freeze in it, you might get a distinct smell of antifreeze from the exhaust. And whitish smoke at times. A HG leak will push gas into the coolant circuit, which will leave via the filler cap, possibly causing what you saw.

The gas in the coolant system will reduce the circulation & cooling, leading to overheating.

A garage should be able to test for combustion products in the coolant, to confirm a HG leak.

Also check the oil, and inside the oil filler cap, and inside the crankcase breather system. A grey emulsion (slimy layer) will build up in cooler parts of the engine if water is getting into the oil. If present, this should ideally be cleaned out after the HG repair. I had problems once with blocked breather pipes due to that.

Peter.

 

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On ‎22‎/‎07‎/‎2016 at 7:13 PM, Tdci-Peter said:

I am not quite sure what was happening there. Was gas venting from the coolant tank overflow (via the filler cap releif valve)? And was the tank almost empty at the time?

It does sound a bit like a head gasket leak. If the coolant had enough anti-freeze in it, you might get a distinct smell of antifreeze from the exhaust. And whitish smoke at times. A HG leak will push gas into the coolant circuit, which will leave via the filler cap, possibly causing what you saw.

The gas in the coolant system will reduce the circulation & cooling, leading to overheating.

A garage should be able to test for combustion products in the coolant, to confirm a HG leak.

Also check the oil, and inside the oil filler cap, and inside the crankcase breather system. A grey emulsion (slimy layer) will build up in cooler parts of the engine if water is getting into the oil. If present, this should ideally be cleaned out after the HG repair. I had problems once with blocked breather pipes due to that.

Peter.

 

Thanks Peter for responding, the squirting was of coolant coming from the two top pipes into the expansion tank. Tank was full.

I have not yet got he antifreeze smell or the white smoke yet.

The car is now again in garage and hopefully they can identify and fix the issue.

Thanks again.

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4 minutes ago, fordnut25 said:

the squirting was of coolant coming from the two top pipes into the expansion tank. Tank was full.

That sounds like coolant boiling in the hot engine. Lots of possible causes, from faulty or wrongly installed thermostat, to some fuel & ignition problems. See what the garage says, and hope it is something not too expensive!

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2 hours ago, Tdci-Peter said:

That sounds like coolant boiling in the hot engine. Lots of possible causes, from faulty or wrongly installed thermostat, to some fuel & ignition problems. See what the garage says, and hope it is something not too expensive!

Heard back from the garage .. no joy though :unsure:

They have done a few tests and say gasket and all are Ok but cannot understand why it overheats. They did not recreate the conditions when it overheats which is going on motorway for few miles at 70 mph so unable to do anything further.

They do not have the time now and asking me to come back to them when the car has overheated !

I am back on square one.

Searching some of the previous threads there was mention of changing the expansion tank cap so I will try to do that and see if that is the issue. Else will have to find another garage.

 

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6 minutes ago, fordnut25 said:

They did not recreate the conditions when it overheats which is going on motorway for few miles at 70 mph

Have you had any repeats of the management light coming on? There will be codes associated with that that might give some clue. I think your car is about 2003 (13 yrs?) & petrol, so an OBD2 reader should work ok. Forscan is a more comprehensive system that I am fairly sure covers cars of that age. I can provide links to info if interested.

One problem is that the temperature gauges are pretty useless. I have a digital readout to 0.1C in my car! On many cars, Forscan can monitor & log engine temperature, along with rpm & throttle opening etc. It is a very powerful tool. And not expensive.

But there is a test you can do on the drive: Starting with cool engine, allow it to idle. Feel the hose from the thermostat to the radiator. This hose should stay fairly cool to start with, even as the engine warms up. Only when it reaches operating temperature, and the thermostat opens, then this hose should suddenly heat up quite fast. Should be quite noticeable.

Does the car use more fuel than it used to? Or lacks power, or pinks or knocks a lot at certain speeds? (That is while the engine temp is normal, not over heated). Any squeals or odd noises that might indicate water pump or pump drive belt problems?

I guess the two top pipes you referred to are the small ones, to vent the system. Usually one comes from the thermostat housing or near it, one from the top of the radiator. It seems these vents are ok if water comes out. That should prevent air lock or air build up while running, if they are open.

Does the heater work ok? Sometimes putting the heater & vent. fan on full (not nice in this weather!) can cool the engine down a bit. If it does, then that would suggest circulation is ok, but could be a thermostat or blocked radiator problem.

I am just going through all the possibilities I can think of.

These tests do take time, and would be very expensive at a garage, but can be done a bit at a time. Please post any questions or results.

Peter.

 

 

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54 minutes ago, Tdci-Peter said:

Have you had any repeats of the management light coming on? There will be codes associated with that that might give some clue. I think your car is about 2003 (13 yrs?) & petrol, so an OBD2 reader should work ok. Forscan is a more comprehensive system that I am fairly sure covers cars of that age. I can provide links to info if interested.

One problem is that the temperature gauges are pretty useless. I have a digital readout to 0.1C in my car! On many cars, Forscan can monitor & log engine temperature, along with rpm & throttle opening etc. It is a very powerful tool. And not expensive.

But there is a test you can do on the drive: Starting with cool engine, allow it to idle. Feel the hose from the thermostat to the radiator. This hose should stay fairly cool to start with, even as the engine warms up. Only when it reaches operating temperature, and the thermostat opens, then this hose should suddenly heat up quite fast. Should be quite noticeable.

Does the car use more fuel than it used to? Or lacks power, or pinks or knocks a lot at certain speeds? (That is while the engine temp is normal, not over heated). Any squeals or odd noises that might indicate water pump or pump drive belt problems?

I guess the two top pipes you referred to are the small ones, to vent the system. Usually one comes from the thermostat housing or near it, one from the top of the radiator. It seems these vents are ok if water comes out. That should prevent air lock or air build up while running, if they are open.

Does the heater work ok? Sometimes putting the heater & vent. fan on full (not nice in this weather!) can cool the engine down a bit. If it does, then that would suggest circulation is ok, but could be a thermostat or blocked radiator problem.

I am just going through all the possibilities I can think of.

These tests do take time, and would be very expensive at a garage, but can be done a bit at a time. Please post any questions or results.

Peter.

 

 

Engine management light - yes it came once when I let the temperature needle in red for a little longer, however it went off after I slowed down and the needle went to middle.

Fuel consumption seems to be as before, overall drive is also as before with no extra noise or loss of power.

Heater is OK, Once when the temperature was showing high I did put the heater on and it seems to make a difference and needle came down back quickly. So it did remove the heat from engine.

If you let me know about OBD2 or Forscan, I can try them on as looks like garages are short on time and don't want to invest time in investigating the issue ( which is understandable as I am also not ready to pay for them trying to diagnose with no guaranteed end result )

I will do the test you mention and report back.

Thanks a lot for your time.

Ash

 

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5 hours ago, fordnut25 said:

If you let me know about OBD2 or Forscan, I can try them

I think in your case Forscan would be a better thing than a generic OBD2 scanner. It may be able to monitor engine temperature. Not all cars are supported, but it only costs £15, and I think is worth a try. I can see exactly when the thermostat opens on my car, by the dip in temperature, and get some idea of how the system performs. Do you have access to a laptop? It works best there, but Android & iOS (Apple) versions are available.

Forscan, is a powerful Ford specific system. Cost £15.00 for the interface. Needs a computer of some sort. (COM port, USB, bluetooth or WiFi interfaces available).

You will find a lot about ELM327 & Forscan on this site, which together provide a very comprehensive diagnosis & maintenance tool.

James (jeebowhite) has done a nice guide: http://www.fordownersclub.com/forums/applications/core/interface/file/attachment.php?id=21196

For an ELM327 adapter, see
http://www.spanglefish.com/TunnelratElectronics/index.asp?pageid=516992


Forscan, is free and you can get it from

http://forscan.org/download.html

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I am beginning to suspect the radiator is partially blocked. The heater working, and the high engine power needed to overheat suggests the pump is ok, and water circulates in the engine ok. But once the thermostat opens, restricted flow would cause overheating. Thermostat remains a possible, I know it was changed, but that is no 100% guarantee.

What anti-freeze is in the system? There are two main types, long life & standard 2 year. The Ford anti-freeze is long life, and is a yellow-pink-orange colour. 2 year is often blue. If 2 year anti-freeze is left in too long, then sludge (corrosion residues) can build up & block the radiator. If that is the problem, then it could be a nice cheap fix.

 

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