Fiesta Mk6 - Brake pads not sitting flat on disc

[lloydyyy]

Hi all,

My Fiesta Mk6 had its MOT in April this year and failed on pads (below 1.5mm, even though it was serviced by the same garage in December 2015 and they said the brakes were fine and I mentioned the upcoming MOT in April).  The pads and discs were changed by the garage.  About a month/1000 miles later, the brakes started to squeal badly.  I took the car back in and they noticed the discs weren't being worn down evenly - only half of each disc was being worn where the pads were making contact.  The garage filed off the pads in the hope they would sit flat on the discs.  The problem persisted and they changed the pads and discs under warranty.  The problem has occurred again roughly a month/1500 miles later but this time only on the driver's side and the garage doesn't think it's an issue with the pads and discs; they think it's an issue with the caliper.  The brakes didn't squeal before they were changed for the MOT - I would've thought if there was an issue with the caliper and the brakes weren't sitting flat, they would've squealed anyway even though they were worn?  I've attached some photos to show the driver and passenger side brakes.  The car is booked in for Wednesday next week.  Any advice would be greatly appreciated. 

[TomsFocus]

Worst copper grease application ever...

I'd clean the carrier properly and grease the 'ears' of the pads and slide pins and see if it's any better personally.

I don't think it'd be a caliper fault but could be wrong lol.

[Ian Lanc]

Jesus so the garage was bodging the pads to make them fit, this should tell you something that not all is well 

Take the disc off too to make sure there's no bad corrosion been left on by the old disc, a decent garage would ensure the mating surface will be clean but some garages don't bother and just bang everything back together.

[lloydyyy]

29 minutes ago, Ian Lanc said:

Jesus so the garage was bodging the pads to make them fit, this should tell you something that not all is well 

Take the disc off too to make sure there's no bad corrosion been left on by the old disc, a decent garage would ensure the mating surface will be clean but some garages don't bother and just bang everything back together.

Thanks for your replies, both.

How can you tell the garage was bodging the pads to make them fit?  Are they the right pads?  I might take the discs and pads off, clean the mating surface and re-grease the pads.  What grease would I need to grease the caliper slide pins?

I was hesitant about taking the car to the garage in December.  They have a good reputation locally but I'm surprised there is another issue with the brakes.  I might take the time this Saturday to strip the brakes down, clean and grease them up and see how it goes.  Then if the problem cures itself before Wednesday, I'll just cancel the appointment.

[Ian Lanc]

2 minutes ago, lloydyyy said:

How can you tell the garage was bodging the pads to make them fit?  What grease would I need to grease the caliper slide pins?

 

Not by the pictures but from the text you wrote....  ''The garage filed off the pads in the hope they would sit flat on the discs'' 

You'll need Copper Slip grease, can be found at most car shops, its a copper colour and comes in a copper coloured tube 

[Ian Lanc]

One important factor to remember is the pads & disc have now got an uneven worn surface contact, so if you did find the problem, the pads wouldn't be fully pressing against the disc, so braking might be seriously impaired. 

[Ian Lanc]

23 minutes ago, lloydyyy said:

I was hesitant about taking the car to the garage in December.  They have a good reputation locally but I'm surprised there is another issue with the brakes.  I might take the time this Saturday to strip the brakes down, clean and grease them up and see how it goes.  Then if the problem cures itself before Wednesday, I'll just cancel the appointment.

Here's a thought mate if you do strip the brakes down and give them a good cleaning and its still bad..... For godsake don't tell the garage you have done this as they could turn around and say ''Well ar' mate you see you've tampered with our engineers work so sorry the guarantee is now void'' 

[lloydyyy]

41 minutes ago, Ian Lanc said:

One important factor to remember is the pads & disc have now got an uneven worn surface contact, so if you did find the problem, the pads wouldn't be fully pressing against the disc, so braking might be seriously impaired. 

This has me worried.  Should I push for a replacement set of pads and discs?

I'll buy some copper slip grease for the pads and caliper slide pins.  I would've thought a silicone grease would be used for the caliper guide pins?

31 minutes ago, Ian Lanc said:

Here's a thought mate if you do strip the brakes down and give them a good cleaning and its still bad..... For godsake don't tell the garage you have done this as they could turn around and say ''Well ar' mate you see you've tampered with our engineers work so sorry the guarantee is now void'' 

Good point.  I won't mention a word.  

[Ian Lanc]

2 minutes ago, lloydyyy said:

 I would've thought a silicone grease would be used for the caliper guide pins? 

I only ever use copper grease around any moving parts on brakes, always have from the 1980's, any other types of greases can melt away from brake heat, copper slip has always been the best for me, nothing seizes up.

[dave_k]

I'd bite the bullet and stick a set of new genuine discs and pads on it and get the fluid changed etc.

Generally you don't muck around with brakes, if there not performing correctly or underperforming who knows what situation you may find yourself your in with some of the "drivers" out there.

Get the rear brakes serviced/cleaned up too.

Best sticking to a decent/competent local garage.

[lloydyyy]

On 7/27/2016 at 11:48 PM, dave_k said:

I'd bite the bullet and stick a set of new genuine discs and pads on it and get the fluid changed etc.

Generally you don't muck around with brakes, if there not performing correctly or underperforming who knows what situation you may find yourself your in with some of the "drivers" out there.

Get the rear brakes serviced/cleaned up too.

Best sticking to a decent/competent local garage.

I don't see why I should pay for new discs and pads.  I paid the garage to carry out the work and they can put it right - why should I pay again?.  That is not directed at you at all.

After further looking at the photos, I suspect they've fitted the pads and then applied copper slip grease to the areas of the pads that they can see, instead of applying copper slip grease to the whole area of the back of the pads and then fitting.  Is that likely?

And to top it off - on my way down to the garage earlier this week, the passenger window started crunching as I tried to put it down.  I think the regulator has had its day.  I tried the passenger side switch and that didn't work either.  Looks like I'll have to replace the regulator and the switch now, too 

[TomsFocus]

The copper grease shouldn't even be visible on the back of the pads, it should only be where it touches the caliper, looks like they've just slapped a load in the middle for absolutely no reason and missed the contact area...  

Red rubber grease is ideal for sliders but any grease will be better than none.

I don't agree with Dave on randomly throwing another set of brakes at it, there's no guarantee that would even fix the problem.  Yes brakes are important but there's no point throwing money at them without finding the cause of the fault.

[lloydyyy]

2 hours ago, TomsFocus said:

The copper grease shouldn't even be visible on the back of the pads, it should only be where it touches the caliper, looks like they've just slapped a load in the middle for absolutely no reason and missed the contact area...  

Red rubber grease is ideal for sliders but any grease will be better than none.

I don't agree with Dave on randomly throwing another set of brakes at it, there's no guarantee that would even fix the problem.  Yes brakes are important but there's no point throwing money at them without finding the cause of the fault.

I've just dropped the car off at a different local garage for a second opinion.  A good friend of the family recommended this garage, so I have confidence.  I rang the garage this morning and explained the situation.  They're happy to take a look and let me know if they find the cause.  I'll have the car back in a few hours.

[dave_k]

On ‎7‎/‎29‎/‎2016 at 1:25 PM, lloydyyy said:

I've just dropped the car off at a different local garage for a second opinion.  A good friend of the family recommended this garage, so I have confidence.  I rang the garage this morning and explained the situation.  They're happy to take a look and let me know if they find the cause.  I'll have the car back in a few hours.

Any feedback from them?

[lloydyyy]

8 hours ago, dave_k said:

Any feedback from them?

They couldn't find the root cause. They had the car up on the ramp and said the calipers looked fine. I suspect the calipers would be easy to test because you can see the sliding pins pushing the pads onto the disc.

They didn't want to delve too deep. They said everything looked fine and the want me to call them back if the other garage finds the cause. 

[CREED]

You should check that the caliper slide pins haven't seized, if one has it would cause the caliper to apply uneven force to the pads.

[lloydyyy]

On 8/1/2016 at 4:22 PM, CREED said:

You should check that the caliper slide pins haven't seized, if one has it would cause the caliper to apply uneven force to the pads.

Thanks for the info.  The car is due to go back to the original garage this morning for a thorough strip-down.  I'll let you know what they say.

[lloydyyy]

Right, the garage mentioned this morning that they don't think it's the caliper.  They mentioned they think it's the hub which is out of shape and has possibly been bent by removing and re-fitting the caliper, and also due to corrosion.

The car is ready.  I asked over the phone what they found and also what was done to fix it.  They said the hub was out of shape, so they've re-shaped it.  I'll have a detailed chat when I go down there shortly.

[stef123]

would like to know how they have 'reshaped' a hub

[lloydyyy]

8 minutes ago, stef123 said:

would like to know how they have 'reshaped' a hub

Me too.  When I dropped the car off, I asked what would cause a hub to go out of shape, and they said 'probably us taking the caliper off and putting it back on, or sometimes corrosion'.  I'll ask for details of what they did to reshape a hub and why it was out of shape in the first place.

[Ian Lanc]

Just another garage making up shitee excuses! This is why I've maintained all my previous cars myself, I know its done properly and not bodged or rushed.

[lloydyyy]

Had the car back. The owner of the garage said that the caliper carrier was probably bent a little, so they applied a bar to bend it back a bit. They said they've seen this with a few Fiestas. I asked what would cause it to bend. He said the caliper bolts were probably on tight and the force applied by one of the mechanics to loosen the bolts probably bent the carrier. The owner is honest enough and I've gone to him quite a few times before. I was a bit miffed to hear about the carrier. I suppose some force needed to have been applied if the bolts were seized in place. Miffed nonetheless. Either way, they have been willing to do everything they can to sort it out. They wanted to try fixing the carrier before ordering a new one.

He asked me to see how it goes for a week or two and to let him know.

[iantt]

what load of !Removed!! how can you see to drive with all that wool over your eyes. lol

[lloydyyy]

21 minutes ago, iantt said:

what load of !Removed!! how can you see to drive with all that wool over your eyes. lol

I don't know what else to say or do. I would've serviced the car myself but didn't have the time. I'm in the position I'm in. The garage has a good reputation and I feel I've been taken for a mug, if at all. Now I have this issue with the car and all I want is for it to be put right. I had no choice but to take his word for it and see how the car goes. I didn't know what other questions to ask when I collected the car. 

[lloydyyy]

Just thought I'd post a reply. The garage took a chance and replaced the driver side caliper for cost price of the part and no charge for labour. It worked. Then the passenger side caliper went a few days ago and they replaced that free of charge.