Particulate Filters on Petrols?!? VW Seems to think so...

[alexp999]

Dieselgate aside, this seems like a stupid idea.

I chose petrol to stay clear of DPF problems due to my short journeys.

Surely they are just going to have thousands of unhappy low mileage customers by doing this??

http://www.carscoops.com/2016/08/vw-group-to-fit-petrol-engines-with.html

[TomsFocus]

Petrols won't make anywhere near the same amount of particulates, plus the exhausts get hotter, seems pointless (how sooty are petrols nowadays!?) but I don't see them having the same blocking issues as diesels personally.

[alexp999]

That is true, just the thought of having to put up with a particulate filter and the issues it can bring in the future makes me cringe.

 

[TomsFocus]

Yeah I agree with you, my next car will have to be petrol to avoid diesel DPFs lol.  But I won't be able to afford a 2017 VW anyway tbf.  

The constant problem with a DPF is the fact it's a 'force through' device rather than a 'flow through' like a cat.  It will really hamper the performance of a small petrol straight from the factory I reckon!

 

[chrisroberson99]

1 hour ago, alexp999 said:

Dieselgate aside, this seems like a stupid idea.

I chose petrol to stay clear of DPF problems due to my short journeys.

Surely they are just going to have thousands of unhappy low mileage customers by doing this??

I think they've already got plenty of those!  

And yes, seems likea ridiculous idea, another reason not to buy a VAG group car!

[alexp999]

Trends tend to spread across manufacturers. That's what concerns me, they might be first, but probably not the last.

And yeah, maybe I should have said, "Surely they are just going to have thousands more unhappy customers...", lol.

[Tdci-Peter]

Have a look at:

http://articles.sae.org/13624/

Makes interesting reading! (sort of)

It is the direct injection aspect of the latest generation of petrol engines like the Ecoboost, that is the concern. There is a similarity between direct injection of petrol, and direct injection of diesel.

But it does suggest there are other, and better ways to control smoke than with filters. Hope so!

 

 

[theredfox]

On ‎05‎/‎08‎/‎2016 at 2:15 AM, Tdci-Peter said:

Have a look at:

http://articles.sae.org/13624/

Makes interesting reading! (sort of)

It is the direct injection aspect of the latest generation of petrol engines like the Ecoboost, that is the concern. There is a similarity between direct injection of petrol, and direct injection of diesel.

But it does suggest there are other, and better ways to control smoke than with filters. Hope so!

all vehicles have been pumping out dirty exhaust's since day what'd changed really

 

 

[GaryPL]

Where one manufacturer goes, the rest will follow.  They're all chasing a couple of percent here and a gram per kilometre there.

I had to change a DPF and an EGR valve on my old FIAT.  Fortunately the EGR was one I could do myself but the DPF was ouch!  Both have essentially become consumables now which is madness.

I doubt a PPF (?) will be as bad though, although many petrols are burning more efficiently now, thus meaning they take longer to warm up!

[Tdci-Peter]

22 hours ago, GaryPL said:

EGR was one I could do myself but the DPF was ouch!  Both have essentially become consumables now which is madness.

That is an example of my biggest "grump" with modern cars. This is heading a bit off the original topic, but it does directly relate to DPFs & PPFs.

It is not the number of new bits. Some of these like a/c or entertainment, navigation & driver aids, are things that buyers of new cars want, and are prepared to pay for. Others are for economy, intended to save the owner money, as well as reducing carbon emissions. And others are for more limited environmental reasons, like urban pollution, or just to meet global regulations.

It is the reliability, maintainability and diagnose-ability (if that is a word!) of all these bits.

All too often, they are badly designed, badly located, and faults can not be properly identified. And that is adding up to a nightmare for car owners, and a headache for garages and dealers.

Otherwise perfectly serviceable cars are being scrapped because one of these bits has gone wrong, and the fault can not be identified, or economically fixed. That is not good for the owner, or for the environment.

Parts are regularly being changed for no good reason, because good diagnosis is so difficult. That is not good for the owner, or for the environment.

Parts designed to save a little fuel, or for some limited benefit, are having to be renewed far too often, and so using up rare or limited resources like platinum, rhodium, copper, nickel, and energy.

As the number of bits goes up, the reliability per bit must go up. The aerospace industry knows all about that, but car manufacturers are struggling to deal with it. And most of these problems are down to little design details, that would add next to nothing to production costs. Better design of the bits, better software, and more open diagnostic information, are needed.

Bad design is one thing there seems no shortage of in the world today. It is a pity, because cars, and other things, are getting so much better in so many ways. But in engineering, just one bad detail easily wrecks the whole thing.