Black smoke

[Spookyjay]

Mondeo 2011 2.0l 163

Hi All

I'm having issues with black smoke on acceleration.

About a month ago my DPF became blocked, I had it cleaned and within about a day the engine light came on and said it was blocked again.

I booked it into fords and had the fuel vaporiser replaced and bingo regens started happening again, all good.

About 100 miles after I started seeing black smoke on acceleration, so booked it back into fords and they said they couldn't see any smoke, but to take it back if its still doing it. drove down the road and black smoke still appearing. Booked it back in and they said that they would do a smoke test on the engine to see if there were any pipes split/leaking. Had a phone call to say they couldn't find anything wrong with it although it was still smoking.

Any ideas would be appreciated as I am at a total loss as to what to do next

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[Russ]

Dirty air filter?

[Tdci-Peter]

10 hours ago, Spookyjay said:

they said that they would do a smoke test on the engine to see if there were any pipes split/leaking. Had a phone call to say they couldn't find anything wrong with it

I think most garage smoke tests are done with no load on the engine (just high rpm). Needs a dynanometer (rolling road) to test a car at full power. Or a road test with diagnostic equipment attached.

Smoke can have a huge range of causes, anything that either injects too much fuel for the air, or the injection is poor (droplets too big due to low pressure or injector damage).

oil burning is another cause, but you would see a drop in oil level.

Blocked air filter (as Russ suggests) could do it, easy to check. Split hoses are also easy to check: just squeeze all the air hoses from turbo outlet via intercooler to the inlet manifold.

Then there is faulty egr, faulty throttle valve, faulty MAP or MAF, etc, etc.

Could even be the fuel vaporiser leaking or injecting fuel when it should not be.

I think it is either get a good diagnostic system like Forscan, that can log live data on many engine sensors, and experiment & learn how to use & interpret it, or get a good diesel specialist to look at it. No easy answer to that one, I am afraid.

 

[Spookyjay]

Thanks for the reply, it's had a new fuel vaporiser fitted and started not long after that. It's not using any oil and the mpg seems to be ok, no loss of power either. The car drives smoothly, it's not lumpy and idles ok.

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[Tdci-Peter]

14 hours ago, Spookyjay said:

It's not using any oil and the mpg seems to be ok, no loss of power either. The car drives smoothly, it's not lumpy and idles ok.

And it looks like it should pass MoT smoke test ok, since the garage test seems not to have found a fault, though it may be worth confirming that with them.

If the smoke is occasional, it may be connected to a regen. Either way, it sounds like an annoying problem, rather than a serious or urgent one.

Unless more positive symptoms develop, or a deeper & more expert diagnosis can be done on the car, you may be best to ignore it for the time being.

[m1tch]

Have you had a leak off test done on the injectors? One might be overfueling which is causing the engine to run rich.

Another thing you can try for free is to unplug the MAF - if its giving the wrong reading to the ECU the fueling might be off - unplug it and see if it makes a difference, if it doesn't smoke with the MAF unplugged then it might be a dirty MAF sensor.

[Spookyjay]

It past the mot no problem a couple of weeks ago. I think I might just live with it for the time being and see how it's goes.

If I knew where the egr,turbo or maf was i might have taken a look but I'm pretty useless at car mechanics.

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[m1tch]

On 8/8/2016 at 5:33 PM, Spookyjay said:

It past the mot no problem a couple of weeks ago. I think I might just live with it for the time being and see how it's goes.

If I knew where the egr,turbo or maf was i might have taken a look but I'm pretty useless at car mechanics.

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Might be a good time to start getting into it - I have learnt loads on various different cars over the years and has saved me a fortune in garage bills, I am sure someone on here will have a diagram with the locations of everything.

[MONDEO TXS 2.2]

Black smoke is often indicative of an air / fuel combustion imbalance - normally too much fuel & insufficient air - or enough fuel & insufficient air.

[Spookyjay]

Spoke to fords again, they're going to try another fuel vaporiser as the black smoke started after they fitted the last one. Going in on Monday, fingers crossed.

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[iantt]

Try another one? Just test the one they have on there, bet they didnt check for blown fuse when they replaced it first time.

[Spookyjay]

God knows, they don't seem to know what they are doing

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[iantt]

doesn't sound like it , fuel vaporisers sometimes short out blowing the fuse, but  I cant see why your getting black smoke due to vapouriser, fuel is only injected in the exhaust tract before the dpf  during regeneration via a vapouriser pump.

if there was an issue with vapouriser then regn would not happen and dpf failure would trigger dtcs

. is black smoke appearing all the time you accelerate, or only occasionaly?

[Spookyjay]

Every time accelerate, tdci-Peter suggested that the vaporiser may be at fault and as its does give off black smoke when it does a regen it kind of made sense that maybe if it was injecting diesel when it shouldn't then it would produce black smoke.

If the pump that supply's the vaporiser was at fault and was pumping all the time would it cause a fault code?

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Also seems strange that the black smoke started after the new vaporiser was fitted

[Tdci-Peter]

44 minutes ago, Spookyjay said:

tdci-Peter suggested that the vaporiser may be at fault

Hmm,

Yes, but it was at the end of my list of other possibilities. I have never come across these things in practice, so how likely it is for them to leak fuel, I am not sure. Also, smoke from the leak has to get through the DPF.

Thinking about the DPF, I am worried about your very first statement:

"About a month ago my DPF became blocked, I had it cleaned and within about a day the engine light came on and said it was blocked again."

If it had been cleaned, why did it block so quickly? Then the new vaporiser cleared the fault, and it started smoking.

All a bit fishy. I wonder if the dpf has been damaged at some stage, and has a hole. Was it the same garage that did the cleaning and fitted the new vaporiser?

On almost all dpf problems, the first thing to check is the DP sensor and its hoses. Faults here can easily make the dpf look blocked when it is not, or vice versa.

Either you should check these items, or make really sure the garage checks & double checks the sensor & hoses. Or better, perhaps, get another garage to check. I may be imagining things, but could there be some sort of "cover up" job going on here?

If Ian reads this, he may be able to add something to confirm or deny this. He knows a lot more about dpfs then I do.

[iantt]

ive never seen a vapouriser pump work when it shouldnt, normally its the other way round, pumps not working or vapouriser nozzle carbons up stopping fuel most of te time, that makes the dpf block up due to regens failing due to insufficient temps. regen/cleaning not possible until vapouriser replaced if that was the original cause of blockage of dpf.

or was dpf blocked? and was showing blocked due to a failed in range pressure sensor?

still alot of garages about who dont know how to diagnose dpf issues.

[Spookyjay]

It was a different garage that did the DPF, they had it sent of for cleaning. The report came back as 68% blocked.

So I think it was the vaporiser that was causing the fault as it stopped doing regens.

I was always wondering if the DPF has become damaged due to the cleaning process, the company they used was 'DPF clean team' they state that they check the DPF for damage before and after.

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[Tdci-Peter]

1 hour ago, Spookyjay said:

So I think it was the vaporiser that was causing the fault as it stopped doing regens

The reason that I suspect a problem with the DP sensor or its hoses is that the DPF was flagged up as "Blocked" by the ECU in the car, within a day of being cleaned. Faults here could make it appear to be blocked (in the car) when it was ok. Another possibility is the the garage did not reset the "learned values" for the dpf system after cleaning, so the ECU was confused by the change. And neither of those are related to the vaporiser.

Maybe when they changed the vaporiser, they also fixed a dodgy hose, or reset the "learned values", and it was that that enabled regens to the occur.

The reason I suspect damage to the dpf is that particulates (aka smoke) are getting through the dpf now, which is what it is supposed to stop. I can't see how much smoke, and it must be difficult for you to really judge, but it does not sound right.

"DPF clean team" seem to have a fairly good reputation, but as for the garage you are using, Ian does not seem impressed, and neither are you, by the sound of it. Ian is not keen on the idea that the vaporiser is likely to cause the smoke, and I am happy to go along with that, he has masses more experience than me.

I think there are two options:

Go back to the 'car is running ok & passes MoT ok' comment, and leave it at that.

Get another DPF expert to check out the system.

DPF systems are extremely complex, involving loads of sensors and other bits, and complex software. Hard to diagnose remotely, and it needs someone who knows what they are doing to test & fix them.

 

 

[Spookyjay]

I totally agree with what you and Ian are saying and really value your opinions as I have no idea about these things apart from what I've read.

I'll let ford have a look at it for the third time and go from there, if no luck then I'll try and find a local diesel specialist to see if they can help, just hope that I don't have to stump up £1200 for a new DPF from ford. (I couldn't find an after market one)

Thanks for all your help 🙂

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[Spookyjay]

I have spoken to 'DPF clean team' and they said that the DPF was badly blocked and had to be opened and put in a kiln for a deep clean, then re sealed. They assure me that the DPF was checked for any damage and all was ok.

They are happy for me to send it back to them for checking at no extra cost as its covered by their warranty. But of course I would have to pay a garage to take it off and put back on again.

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[Tdci-Peter]

On 12/08/2016 at 2:58 PM, Spookyjay said:

DPF clean team' and they said that the DPF was badly blocked and had to be opened and put in a kiln for a deep clean, then re sealed.

I can not say I am impressed by that answer.

There are two blockage mechanisms in a DPF: Carbon & Ash

Carbon is any type of partially burnt fuel, from soot to sticky oily residues. It will oxidise (burn off) in the presence of air (oxygen) at a high enough temperature.

Ash is the generic term for anything left after fuel burns, that will not oxidise. The fuel you buy will yield a very small quantity of ash (it is controlled, but not to zero). Also anything else from engine oil to dust that gets through the air filter and corrosion products (eg rust) will add to the ash.

To remove carbon, heat and air is enough, no need to remove the insert. In fact with a heavily carbonised DPF, the problem is to limit the air so that thermal run-away (like a chimney fire) can not occur, and melt or damage the ceramic of the DPF.

Ash can not be removed by heat, it will have to be washed out in some way, if that is possible.

However, they say they tested it afterwards, we will have to trust them on that, I guess.

Please keep us informed of any progress. Whether we can be of real help to you, I do not know, sadly. But your experiences may help others. This forum is all about sharing information.

 

[Spookyjay]

Had the fuel vaporiser changed again, and still have black smoke on acceleration. Just done 1000 miles on holiday in Wales and no problem with the car (just the black smoke) mpg good, not using any oil and seems to drive nice and smooth.

I guess I'll just have to live with it and see what happens.

Thanks for all the help

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[iantt]

not suprised it didnt fix it.

[Tdci-Peter]

37 minutes ago, Spookyjay said:

I guess I'll just have to live with it and see what happens.

Probably the best solution for you. I suspect a hole in the DPF, allowing the smoke through, but that does mean it should not block up. So provided it gets through the MoT tests, which it seems to, then it should be ok.

It is quite possible these engines do smoke a bit normally, but it is caught by the DPF.  And to find out the cause of the smoke would be a lot of effort. If it does not smoke when driving around town, then environmentally, a replacement dpf would probably be worse than the bit of smoke.