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Mondeo Mk3 2005 2.0 TDCi 115 loss of power under load, black smoke, glow plug light flashing.


Drwavey
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Hi All, 

First post here but have read many and found the forum very useful on this issue already, so thanks in advance. Looking for some advice about how to progress diagnoses or if it's time to say bye to this car which has served me so well!

As title suggests, got a Mondeo Mk3 estate 2005 2.0 TDCi 115, 105K on the clock and with a few fairly common symptoms it would seem. Symptoms are black smoke when accelerating (not new but has got a bit worse), a sudden loss of power under load such as overtaking on a motorway or uphill followed by a flashing glow plug light. Car continues to drive but lumpy at low revs and with very limited power esp noticeable above about 1800-2000rpm, as if the turbo isn't activating. Restarting the car clears the warning light and returns 90% of power but it continues to runs very lumpy at low rpm. This has happened three times now within 500 miles and seems to happen once the car has been driven for 45mins or so and has warmed up. 

Injectors were reconditioned 10K ago and the EGR valve and inlet manifold cleaned after the first time the glow plug light flashed. Couldn't find a split in the hose below the EGR valve as suggested in another post but there must be a fuel/air balance issue causing the smoke, right? I have limited experience but my next thought is that the turbo veins have clogged up given that the EGR valve and inlet were pretty clogged and the loss of power happens when the car is warm when the carbon would liquify. I know very very little about turbos. It doesn't appear to have an electronic actuator (which I understand can burn out) but looks like it might have a pneumatic one. I know 2005 was the changeover year for that item and this is a June production model. Are the veins in the exhaust manifold on this model and how do you go about cleaning them? Can you replace the turbo and actuator separately? 

20160822_121657.jpg

Amount of carbon build up in EGR and Inlet Manifold shown below: 

20160727_105212.jpg

20160727_142827.jpg

The DMF has also been on the way out for about a year and a half and now sounds like a bag of spanners. I admit that I have not serviced the car well since finding that out. I'm waiting to have the codes read but it probably only makes sense to fix this new issue if it's something I can attempt to do myself. If DMF is £600-700 and the current 2nd hand value for the car seems to be about £800-900 then any other major repair cost prior to DMF failure wipes out the value and I might be better off spending on a new car instead. That is part of what I am trying to determine. 

Could the DMF failure attribute to the lumpy running at low rpm? I understand that the ECU on the TDCi's will stall the engine to prevent DMF damaging other things. The car has become increasingly easy to stall when pulling away form a junction, which ties in with this - unusual for a diesel. 

Thanks for your thoughts in advance,

Dave

 

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If it stalls when you pull away could be the cam sensor, my MK3 did the same. £15 for a new one. If you haven't serviced it the fuel filter could be blocked.

However, if the DMF is on the way out as you say it will cost more than the cars worth.

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Thanks DieselPig, will try changing the fuel filter. Am I right in thinking that if the pump is on the way out there will be bits of metal from the bearing in the filter? Keen to keep the car running till the DMF dies as I might be leaving the country in a few months and don't want to have to buy a new car till I know for certain what I'm doing. 

Just had codes read: P0251, (Injection pump fuel metering control (cam/rotor/injector) - I think?)

Other forum posts are saying this can be misleading and can still flash up when it's a turbo problem like stuck veins . However, having read a bit more today I think my turbo is that same as the old TDDi ones and therefore doesn't have variable veins or an actuator. What looks like a pneumatic actuator is actually for the wastegate not veins. Can anyone confirm that from the image in my first post? Be good to eliminate stuck veins as the source of the problem.

Also took the air inlet off the turbo and there's no play in the shaft. 

Hoping it's not the injectors again after only 10K miles as there is some fluid around them which I'll mop up and monitor Although that would makes sense of running lumpy at low revs when cold. 

20160824_170243.jpg

Thanks again,

Dave

 

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On 22/08/2016 at 4:57 PM, Drwavey said:

Could the DMF failure attribute to the lumpy running at low rpm? I understand that the ECU on the TDCi's will stall the engine to prevent DMF damaging other things.

I have seen the post about deliberate ECU stall, but I am very dubious. There is an obvious safety hazard in a deliberate stall, and just about every system and feature in these cars will go through some sort of safety assessment. I do not think this would get through.

It is probably the other way round. Maintaining a steady idle is actually quite a big challenge for any engine management system, everything is working right at one end of its range. I think the crankshaft speed & torque variations due to a failing DMF make it more difficult to keep that idle steady, and so make it easy to stall, even though the ECU is trying to keep it going.

I can't help with the turbo, I have never had one out to play with!

On P0251, air in the fuel system (leaks in pipes or filter) or blocked filter are given as possibilities. Also swarf in the filter is not a reliable indicator of pump failure, there are many other sources of metal filings. (I found: www.fordwiki.co.uk/images/f/f9/TSB_46_2005.pdf

But I have to give my standard advice, which is that the diagnostic systems on these cars are there to help. The error codes are vital, not just in a garage, but when faults happen. And in between sometimes. But also they usually allow access to sensor readings in the engine, like the MAP (or turbo boost) pressure. I have a continuous display for this, and can check the operation of the turbo at any time while driving. And the EGR valve, another potential trouble maker in the black smoke and uneven performance area.

On many Fords, a system called Forscan can log these readings while driving, you might be able to see if the boost pressure dropped when it went slow & lumpy. Also it can monitor the high pressure fuel line. Whether keeping an older Ford going, or looking after a newer one after the warranty runs out, some sort of scanner or system is, in my view, essential.

Other relatively cheap tests are to block the EGR (may cause an error code, so needs a scanner, but will give diagnostic info if the valve is sticking), and a leak-back test on the injectors.

For more on Forscan, ask here, please keep us posted about progress etc.

 

 

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Thanks Peter. A diesel specialist has just shared the same opinion with me as you have re DMF, deliberate stalling and lumpy idle so that makes sense. 

Having fuel pressure and injector leak tests done following the P0251 code reading so will update on the outcome of those. Would like to learn how to do the leak test myself and found some great You Tube vids but don't have the time right now. 

I plan to delete the EGR. I don't want to have to clean that amount of carbon out again, asides from any other benefits! I'll just make up a temporary thin plate to test with but do you know where stainless steel blanking plates can be purchased as eBay just has has flimsy alloy ones? I'll hunt the forum for that because I'm sure that'll have been asked before. 

Definitely interested in Forscan. Are you involved with developing that? Isn't there some sort of plug needed to physically plug into to the OBD port to enable connection with the Android app? All new to me maybe that's a stupid question!

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1 hour ago, Drwavey said:

do you know where stainless steel blanking plates can be purchased

Try: http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/NEW-EGR-BLANKING-PLATE-KIT-FORD-MONDEO-TRANSIT-TDCI-JAGUAR-X-TYPE-/162102565749

That claims to be Stainless. But re-check the car details first!

I do not 100% recommend egr blanking on a permanent basis. Some cars do not like it, and can suffer performance loss, or warning light on. Re-mapping can work, but you are in the hands of whoever does the re-map, and there can be side effects. I have had my car blanked on & off for several years, due to egr valve electrical problems. I have recently fixed it (3rd time!), and have unblanked the system: Driveability is virtually unchanged, maybe some hesitations at low power, maybe a bit more responsive in mid-range, but hard to tell. Fuel economy seems better (1-2mpg), but what I do notice is the turbo was coming in very early (even going down hill with very small throttle), but is now coming in at a much more sensible time.

But every engine type is different, and I know what you mean about the carbon, that is a worry. But it is a much more serious worry if something is causing smoke, you do not want that sucked back in.

That leak test can be very helpful on older cars, to check for differences in the injectors. I must try it myself sometime, but when it comes to diesel fuel bits, I work on the principle "if it aint broke, don't fix it"! My system seems to be fine at present, so I will leave it alone

.

Forscan is a powerful Ford specific system, Cost £15.00 for the interface. Needs a computer of some sort. (COM port, USB, bluetooth or WiFi interfaces available). You will find a lot about ELM327 & Forscan on this site, which together provide a very comprehensive diagnosis & maintenance tool. James (jeebowhite) has done a nice guide: http://www.fordownersclub.com/forums/applications/core/interface/file/attachment.php?id=21196

For an ELM327 adapter, see
http://www.spanglefish.com/TunnelratElectronics/index.asp?pageid=516992

Wireless ELMs are also available (bluetooth & WiFi), but are often not as reliable as the wired ones. Also they are rare in the "modified" form which is needed to access the 2nd Ford bus system. This 2nd bus is the MS-CAN bus, and links all the car interior electronics like door modules, and the BCM (aka GEM). Though a 2005 Mondeo may not have this 2nd CAN bus anyway. But most more modern Fords do.

The Forscan programme is free (in Windows format) and you can get it from:
http://forscan.org/download.html

Note: Simply reading the codes can do no harm, and does not change anything. Just do not reset the codes (and you would have to ask the scanner to do this) if you are going to take the car to a garage.

I have just logged a run using Forscan to monitor the fuel rail pressure, and it showed it seemed to be working well, with pressures up to 150,000kPa (1500 Bar or 22,000PSI !) when the engine was working hard. And you can't do that on a driveway or in most garages.

Peter.

PS:

For an bluetooth wireless ELM, which one user at least says works with Forscan, see the KW902: http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/ELM327-KW902-Bluetooth-Scaner-OBD-Link-OBD2-Diagnose-Interface-Tester-white-UK-/281631334205


No, despite appearances, I have no connection with the Forscan team, nor with selling ELMs!

 

 

Edited by Tdci-Peter
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